- Welcome to AntiPolygraph.org Message Board.
A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by Fair Chance
- Oct 23, 2002, 11:22 AMDear George,
The light bulb finally went on.
So the real question becomes,
where are they getting scientific information supporting the counter-countermeasures arguement that can be presented in a non-secure public forum?
The NAS states that there is no current public information available up to the secret level.
Any public presentations are questionable if not out and out fraud.
The light bulb finally went on.
So the real question becomes,
where are they getting scientific information supporting the counter-countermeasures arguement that can be presented in a non-secure public forum?
The NAS states that there is no current public information available up to the secret level.
Any public presentations are questionable if not out and out fraud.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Oct 23, 2002, 11:12 AMFair Chance,
Regarding the shell game that the federal polygraph community apparently played on the National Academy of Sciences with regard to purported countermeasure studies, the NAS report states at p. 4-9:
Regarding the shell game that the federal polygraph community apparently played on the National Academy of Sciences with regard to purported countermeasure studies, the NAS report states at p. 4-9:
QuoteAlso, we were advised by officials from DOE and DoDPI that there was information relevant to our work, classified at the secret level, particularly with regard to polygraph countermeasures. In order to review such information, several committee members and staff obtained national security clearances at the secret level. We were subsequently told by officials of the Central Intelligence Agency and DoDPI that there were no completed studies of polygraph countermeasures at the secret level; we do not know whether there are any such studies at a higher level of classification.
Posted by Fair Chance
- Oct 23, 2002, 11:05 AMMarty,
I think you are right that proponents of polygraph want as little public attention as possible to this report.
Dr. Richarson's appearance on NPR is certainly a positive thing.
George,
Thanks for the information on log tallies.
I am just surprised that Mr. Barland is still touting countermeasures after the NAS reports stated that there was no significant information about them that they could find.
As mentioned earlier, was this information moved to a "Top Secret" security level?
I think you are right that proponents of polygraph want as little public attention as possible to this report.
Dr. Richarson's appearance on NPR is certainly a positive thing.
George,
Thanks for the information on log tallies.
I am just surprised that Mr. Barland is still touting countermeasures after the NAS reports stated that there was no significant information about them that they could find.
As mentioned earlier, was this information moved to a "Top Secret" security level?
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Oct 23, 2002, 04:22 AMFair Chance,
You write in part:
I wouldn't draw any inferences about the level of interest in what Dr. Barland has to say on countermeasures from the replies to this message thread, or the number of times it has been viewed. (Note that the counter that keeps track of the number of times a message thread has been viewed does not include the number of times a post in it was read using the "Ten Recent Posts" feature.)
The topic of polygraph countermeasures has been on the agenda at numerous polygraph conferences lately, including those of the American Polygraph Association, the American Association of Police Polygraphers, and the National Polygraph Association. No doubt the great majority, if not all, of those attending the conference in Charleston, West Virginia will have learned of it from some source other than this message board.
You write in part:
QuoteJudging by the reply activity and amount of hits on this subject, Mr. Barland's ability to garner attention is lacking. I only wish I could go just to see who would actually spend the money to hear "scientific proof" of countermeasure expertise in action.
I wouldn't draw any inferences about the level of interest in what Dr. Barland has to say on countermeasures from the replies to this message thread, or the number of times it has been viewed. (Note that the counter that keeps track of the number of times a message thread has been viewed does not include the number of times a post in it was read using the "Ten Recent Posts" feature.)
The topic of polygraph countermeasures has been on the agenda at numerous polygraph conferences lately, including those of the American Polygraph Association, the American Association of Police Polygraphers, and the National Polygraph Association. No doubt the great majority, if not all, of those attending the conference in Charleston, West Virginia will have learned of it from some source other than this message board.
Posted by Marty
- Oct 23, 2002, 01:35 AMI don't think the NAS was difficult for them to digest. I doubt many in the polygraph community were surprised. I just don't think they have figured out a way to publicly respond to it that doesn't make them look worse. I think they will just lay low and hope it is forgotten in the mash of other news and babble.
After all they represent "Truth, Justice, and the American Way". Oops, Wrong superhero. I meant Marston's Wonder Woman with her magic, truth telling lasso.
-Marty (Ah, when I was young and feckless)
After all they represent "Truth, Justice, and the American Way". Oops, Wrong superhero. I meant Marston's Wonder Woman with her magic, truth telling lasso.
-Marty (Ah, when I was young and feckless)
Posted by Fair Chance
- Oct 22, 2002, 10:59 PMDear George,
Judging by the reply activity and amount of hits on this subject, Mr. Barland's ability to garner attention is lacking. I only wish I could go just to see who would actually spend the money to hear "scientific proof" of countermeasure expertise in action.
I think you are very astute in your observation that the polygraph community is trying to exist as if the NAS report never happened.
As you stated, "The toothpaste cannot be put back into the tube" at this point.
The complete lack of debate on almost any subject at this website except for touche's weak misquote is an example of how difficult this report must have been for them to read.
The war is far from over but I think the first "thermonuclear report" destruction has gotten their attention and the polygraph's civil defense agencies are in disarray.
Judging by the reply activity and amount of hits on this subject, Mr. Barland's ability to garner attention is lacking. I only wish I could go just to see who would actually spend the money to hear "scientific proof" of countermeasure expertise in action.
I think you are very astute in your observation that the polygraph community is trying to exist as if the NAS report never happened.
As you stated, "The toothpaste cannot be put back into the tube" at this point.
The complete lack of debate on almost any subject at this website except for touche's weak misquote is an example of how difficult this report must have been for them to read.
The war is far from over but I think the first "thermonuclear report" destruction has gotten their attention and the polygraph's civil defense agencies are in disarray.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Oct 22, 2002, 12:53 PMDr. Gordon H. Barland is scheduled to give a presentation on "Identifying and Preventing Countermeasures" on Friday, 25 October 2002 at a polygraph seminar to be held at the Holiday Inn Charleston House, Charleston, W. VA. The conference, which is sponsored by a number of state polygraph associations, including the Virginia Polygraph Association and the Maryland Polygraph Association, begins on Thursday. According to the seminar description on the Virginia Polygraph Association website, the seminar is open to non-members, who will be charged $175. According to the seminar schedule on the Maryland Polygraph Association website, Dr. Barland will be speaking from 8:00 A.M. until 5:00 P.M., with morning and afternoon refreshment breaks and a break for lunch.
One wonders how Dr. Barland is going to speak all day about a "identifying and preventing countermeasures" when no polygrapher has demonstrated the ability to do such. Dr. Barland's talk is presumably not based on any alleged classified government research, since the conference is open to people without national security clearances.
Perhaps Dr. Barland would care to demonstrate his ability to "identify and prevent countermeasures" by being the first to accept Dr. Richardson's polygraph countermeasure challenge?
One wonders how Dr. Barland is going to speak all day about a "identifying and preventing countermeasures" when no polygrapher has demonstrated the ability to do such. Dr. Barland's talk is presumably not based on any alleged classified government research, since the conference is open to people without national security clearances.
Perhaps Dr. Barland would care to demonstrate his ability to "identify and prevent countermeasures" by being the first to accept Dr. Richardson's polygraph countermeasure challenge?