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Posted by notguilty1
- Nov 01, 2008, 05:57 PMQuote from: SanchoPanza on Nov 01, 2008, 05:31 PMQuote from: notguilty1 on Nov 01, 2008, 05:14 PMOf course his comment on countermeasures is well.... his skewed opinion,
You'll notice that Notguilty1 DIDN'T offer to produce produce a single scientific study that proves that anyone can pass a polygraph using countermeasures by reading Dr. Maschke's book and following its directions.
He didn't, because he couldn't, because no such study exists. Believe me if there was one they would really be screaming about it.
Sancho Panza
If Sancho bothered to read anything other than his own rantings, he would see that I have never promoted countermeasures.
I simply don't have any experience with them and I guess if needed, they would be at least as good as the coin toss of going at it with the polygraph operators opinion because, as we have seen in the Mongols investigation the box can and was beat on several occasions. ( one could say that though not a "study" it is defiantly proof that countermeasures CAN and DO work)
Of course, Sancho cannot produce any study that shows countermeasures don't work or that they can be detected by any one. I wonder how many have actually passed using them and were just considered a pass? I know that there have been posts here that have stated that they used them and passed.
My comment to the OP was to avoid polygraphy is at all possible and that advice still stands.
The fact that Sancho decided to use it to further hs own agenda is his thing.
Posted by SanchoPanza
- Nov 01, 2008, 05:31 PMQuote from: notguilty1 on Nov 01, 2008, 05:14 PMOf course his comment on countermeasures is well.... his skewed opinion,
You'll notice that Notguilty1 DIDN'T offer to produce produce a single scientific study that proves that anyone can pass a polygraph using countermeasures by reading Dr. Maschke's book and following its directions.
He didn't, because he couldn't, because no such study exists. Believe me if there was one they would really be screaming about it.
Sancho Panza
Posted by notguilty1
- Nov 01, 2008, 05:14 PMQuote from: SanchoPanza on Oct 31, 2008, 07:05 PMJessalee, You are getting a mixture if good and bad advice. Technically your husband violated his terms and he did it with your help. The P.O. and the Judge have every right to be less than pleased with this behavior. There are very good reasons that strangulations and abuse in front of children are treated more seriously than others, but I don't need to explain that. If you have been attending your classes, you already know why.
You can't change the fact that the order was violated, but the appropriate way to handle it would be as beech trees advised first. Have your husband get his P.O. to violate him for the No Contact infraction and use this opportunity to explain what really happened to the Judge.
Yes the order was violated, but it isn't the same as you permitting him to move back in and take up where you left off.
The No Contact order is really designed to keep you and your children safe. If all you have done is exchange email then you have complied with the Spirit of the order if not the letter of the order. You could probably point out to the Judge that by exchanging emails you are able to communicate in a very safe way. You might even produce copies of the emails, with the date and tiime headers as proof that the contact was non-threatening in nature. You may have actually been using these emails to assure yourself that he was progressing in his treatment. If so, you might want to tell the judge.
This is the best way to go.
If you go with trying to cheat on a polygraph test you need to realize that No-One on this board can produce a single scientific study that proves that anyone can pass a polygraph using countermeasures by reading Dr. Maschke's book and following its directions.
Good Luck
Sancho Panza
Jessalee,
I agree with Sancho for first part of his response to you I think it's the best course of action to get this resolved for you.
Of course his comment on countermeasures is well.... his skewed opinion, as is his whole assertion that polygraphy has any validity in lie detection. That being said,
since polygraphy is a crap shoot at best even he was going to be truthful, avoiding the polygraph operator is the best course of action.
Good luck to you and I do hope you are right and that your husband is not going to continue being abusive.
Posted by SanchoPanza
- Oct 31, 2008, 07:05 PMJessalee, You are getting a mixture if good and bad advice. Technically your husband violated his terms and he did it with your help. The P.O. and the Judge have every right to be less than pleased with this behavior. There are very good reasons that strangulations and abuse in front of children are treated more seriously than others, but I don't need to explain that. If you have been attending your classes, you already know why.
You can't change the fact that the order was violated, but the appropriate way to handle it would be as beech trees advised first. Have your husband get his P.O. to violate him for the No Contact infraction and use this opportunity to explain what really happened to the Judge.
Yes the order was violated, but it isn't the same as you permitting him to move back in and take up where you left off.
The No Contact order is really designed to keep you and your children safe. If all you have done is exchange email then you have complied with the Spirit of the order if not the letter of the order. You could probably point out to the Judge that by exchanging emails you are able to communicate in a very safe way. You might even produce copies of the emails, with the date and tiime headers as proof that the contact was non-threatening in nature. You may have actually been using these emails to assure yourself that he was progressing in his treatment. If so, you might want to tell the judge.
This is the best way to go.
If you go with trying to cheat on a polygraph test you need to realize that No-One on this board can produce a single scientific study that proves that anyone can pass a polygraph using countermeasures by reading Dr. Maschke's book and following its directions.
Good Luck
Sancho Panza
You can't change the fact that the order was violated, but the appropriate way to handle it would be as beech trees advised first. Have your husband get his P.O. to violate him for the No Contact infraction and use this opportunity to explain what really happened to the Judge.
Yes the order was violated, but it isn't the same as you permitting him to move back in and take up where you left off.
The No Contact order is really designed to keep you and your children safe. If all you have done is exchange email then you have complied with the Spirit of the order if not the letter of the order. You could probably point out to the Judge that by exchanging emails you are able to communicate in a very safe way. You might even produce copies of the emails, with the date and tiime headers as proof that the contact was non-threatening in nature. You may have actually been using these emails to assure yourself that he was progressing in his treatment. If so, you might want to tell the judge.
This is the best way to go.
If you go with trying to cheat on a polygraph test you need to realize that No-One on this board can produce a single scientific study that proves that anyone can pass a polygraph using countermeasures by reading Dr. Maschke's book and following its directions.
Good Luck
Sancho Panza
Posted by Bobbi
- Oct 31, 2008, 06:23 PMJessalee, I am in the same boat as you are in, I don't know how to get the no contact order lifted, I feel like I am the victim, but not by my husband, by the legal system.. It's to the point I will never seek help from the Police again....the legal system is for rich people, not regular people, I am unable to afford legal representation, nor is my husband, and because we have no contact, it is impossible to be together. My husband was going through emotional turmiol at the time of our alledge assault, which was a push into a chair, nothing more. I believe he knows what he did was wrong, and he would benefit from, councilling and support, which we also can not afford.... how are you coping.... please contact me @ talktalk2me@live.ca, my name is Bobbi
Posted by beech trees
- Sep 27, 2002, 03:48 PMUnless a post-conviction polygraph was agreed upon as a special condition of probation, legally your husband's PO has very little ground to stand upon with regard to her demand he take one (and pass).
Having said that, you should also be aware that Probation Officers have wide, wide latitude and are often given 'the benefit of the doubt' if and when they come before a judge. There is no clearly defined 'bright line' they cannot cross with regard to their probationees, as long as their edicts are not 'malicious and punitive'. For example, your husband's PO could not order him to post a sign in his yard reading, "Convicted wife beater lives here" or something similar.
If successful passing of a polygraph is not a part of your husband's conditions or special conditions of probation, nor a part of successful completion of whatever counseling program he is attending, I think he has every right to refuse such a ludicrous interrogation. You will need a lawyer, one who will sit down with your husband and his PO to discuss this. I would recommend recording that meeting. Should your PO still insist on a polygraph, the way I see it you have two options:
1. Tell your PO to violate your husband's probation and take the matter before a judge.
2. Download, read, and understand The Lie Behind The Lie Detector. Help your husband practice his countermeasures. He'll take the polygraph and pass it.
Dave
Having said that, you should also be aware that Probation Officers have wide, wide latitude and are often given 'the benefit of the doubt' if and when they come before a judge. There is no clearly defined 'bright line' they cannot cross with regard to their probationees, as long as their edicts are not 'malicious and punitive'. For example, your husband's PO could not order him to post a sign in his yard reading, "Convicted wife beater lives here" or something similar.
If successful passing of a polygraph is not a part of your husband's conditions or special conditions of probation, nor a part of successful completion of whatever counseling program he is attending, I think he has every right to refuse such a ludicrous interrogation. You will need a lawyer, one who will sit down with your husband and his PO to discuss this. I would recommend recording that meeting. Should your PO still insist on a polygraph, the way I see it you have two options:
1. Tell your PO to violate your husband's probation and take the matter before a judge.
2. Download, read, and understand The Lie Behind The Lie Detector. Help your husband practice his countermeasures. He'll take the polygraph and pass it.
Dave
Posted by jessalee
- Sep 27, 2002, 07:59 AMI need some help! This is probably not the usual thing you read on these boards, but I am the victim of a crime seeking help for the "criminal" in my case. It's not really as dramatic as it sounds, I am searching for advice for my husband on how to pass a polygraph so he can rejoin our family. Last April? May? my husband was arrested for domestic violence, and because the incident happened in front of our children, he was being charged with four felony counts. One for me, and three for each of our children, even though the youngest was only 4 months old at the time and did not have a clue what was happening. I'll give a brief description of the incident so you will understand what happened:
First of all, let me state something: I am NOT a battered wife. I am not a victim. I am merely a PERSON in a relationship with another PERSON. I HATE being labeled when my situation is not what it seems. My husband and I have been married for 6 years and have 3 children, who were ages 4, 2 and 4 months old at the time. We have been having marital problems for the last year and a half, and our arguing had been escalating severely, but he had never laid a hand on me before. He had recently had surgery and was home from work for 3 months straight, which did not help us to get along better! The day of this incident, we had been arguing pretty steadily for the entire day, and that evening, he snapped and grabbed me by the throat, pinning me on the ground for several minutes while he yelled at me. When he let me up, I called the police to have him removed from the house. He was already thinking the same thing, and had planned on leaving, but since I had already dialed the phone, the police were already on the way, and the 911 operator had me tell him to wait for them to get there. By this time, he was no longer angry, and I was no longer afraid, we both just wanted time apart. BUT, in the county where we live, the police were REQUIRED to arrest him, and since he did not deny what had happened, nothing I said could keep them from taking him away.
Now, I know this sounds bad, but you have to remember, this had never happened before, and he is not a habitual abuser. At this point, he was issued a no-contact order and told he was not to call or come within 400 yards of me, our house, our car, or our children or he would be immediately arrested again. I won't go through every detail, but basically, at every phase of this ordeal, he was not allowed contact. He was offered a three years probation in return for pleading guilty to one count of felony assault, and agreed when they tried to force our four year old son to go to court and testify against his daddy. (I won't even go into how WRONG I think that part is!)
He completely obeyed every part of his probation for weeks. BUT, I was having such severe emotional problems with what had happened, not knowing where my marriage stood or how to suddenly be a single mother with three children, no job and no source of income, not to mention how to explain to my children why their father, who they adore, was not coming home. I started to email him, begging him to just let me know what was going on and to help me figure out what to do. At first he refused to reply as not to get into trouble, and would only contact my mother to tell her things. But, since I am not a very compliant person when I don't agree with something, "legal" or not, I kept emailing him. Slowly, he began to reply in short, information-only messages, and now we are emailing each other regularly.
I KNOW this is illegal, but why the h*** should it be illegal to talk to your own wife? I am the supposed victim here, and we BOTH want contact. By the way, he has been regularly attending all court ordered classes, and unlike most abusive men, he has really learned a lot about his behavior and about how to change the things he has been doing wrong. As for me, if I hadn't had this contact with him, I would be a wreck, and would never have been able to deal with the last 5 months alone with my children. I DO NOT believe that contact is wrong, even though the courts say it is.
(Sorry for the length of this post, but I want to make sure the picture is clear!)
Now this beings us to the present. His PO, who by the way is a woman who admitted to me she was the victim of domestic violence and does not believe these men deserve any kind of second chance and has a major chip on her shoulder, is insisting that he pass a polygraph test confirming that he has indeed not had contact with me or our children before he is allowed to come home. Since he has violated that part of his probation, we need to find ways for him to pass the test so we can get our lives back! Our children need him back, and we are both ready to put our problems behind us and focus on creating a more stable environment in which to raise them.
There is so much conflicting information out there, and we really need to know what will work in this particular case. If anyone has any advice, please help!!!
Thanks,
Jessalee
First of all, let me state something: I am NOT a battered wife. I am not a victim. I am merely a PERSON in a relationship with another PERSON. I HATE being labeled when my situation is not what it seems. My husband and I have been married for 6 years and have 3 children, who were ages 4, 2 and 4 months old at the time. We have been having marital problems for the last year and a half, and our arguing had been escalating severely, but he had never laid a hand on me before. He had recently had surgery and was home from work for 3 months straight, which did not help us to get along better! The day of this incident, we had been arguing pretty steadily for the entire day, and that evening, he snapped and grabbed me by the throat, pinning me on the ground for several minutes while he yelled at me. When he let me up, I called the police to have him removed from the house. He was already thinking the same thing, and had planned on leaving, but since I had already dialed the phone, the police were already on the way, and the 911 operator had me tell him to wait for them to get there. By this time, he was no longer angry, and I was no longer afraid, we both just wanted time apart. BUT, in the county where we live, the police were REQUIRED to arrest him, and since he did not deny what had happened, nothing I said could keep them from taking him away.
Now, I know this sounds bad, but you have to remember, this had never happened before, and he is not a habitual abuser. At this point, he was issued a no-contact order and told he was not to call or come within 400 yards of me, our house, our car, or our children or he would be immediately arrested again. I won't go through every detail, but basically, at every phase of this ordeal, he was not allowed contact. He was offered a three years probation in return for pleading guilty to one count of felony assault, and agreed when they tried to force our four year old son to go to court and testify against his daddy. (I won't even go into how WRONG I think that part is!)
He completely obeyed every part of his probation for weeks. BUT, I was having such severe emotional problems with what had happened, not knowing where my marriage stood or how to suddenly be a single mother with three children, no job and no source of income, not to mention how to explain to my children why their father, who they adore, was not coming home. I started to email him, begging him to just let me know what was going on and to help me figure out what to do. At first he refused to reply as not to get into trouble, and would only contact my mother to tell her things. But, since I am not a very compliant person when I don't agree with something, "legal" or not, I kept emailing him. Slowly, he began to reply in short, information-only messages, and now we are emailing each other regularly.
I KNOW this is illegal, but why the h*** should it be illegal to talk to your own wife? I am the supposed victim here, and we BOTH want contact. By the way, he has been regularly attending all court ordered classes, and unlike most abusive men, he has really learned a lot about his behavior and about how to change the things he has been doing wrong. As for me, if I hadn't had this contact with him, I would be a wreck, and would never have been able to deal with the last 5 months alone with my children. I DO NOT believe that contact is wrong, even though the courts say it is.
(Sorry for the length of this post, but I want to make sure the picture is clear!)
Now this beings us to the present. His PO, who by the way is a woman who admitted to me she was the victim of domestic violence and does not believe these men deserve any kind of second chance and has a major chip on her shoulder, is insisting that he pass a polygraph test confirming that he has indeed not had contact with me or our children before he is allowed to come home. Since he has violated that part of his probation, we need to find ways for him to pass the test so we can get our lives back! Our children need him back, and we are both ready to put our problems behind us and focus on creating a more stable environment in which to raise them.
There is so much conflicting information out there, and we really need to know what will work in this particular case. If anyone has any advice, please help!!!
Thanks,
Jessalee