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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by ptrck
- Sep 19, 2023, 12:07 AMI am the same one. I was denied clearance in 2013 and appealed it that same year with a response to SOR with a security clearance attorney. The idiot CIA never replied back to me, so I had to reach out to my attorney in July 2017 to reach out to them and receive a reply from the agency. The agency replied back and said they rejected the response to SOR in February 2017. Yes, my employment offer was rescinded from the government contractor. I never reapplied for a clearance and will forever avoid federal government work. I have been working at a financial regulator since 2014.
That's good what you are doing. The CIA coerces innocent people into false confessions. There is discrimination and bias from the polygraph examiners and adjudicators so that they can treat examinees like monsters without repercussions. They don't care about examinees or their careers. Their only goal is to elicit confessions, whether they are coerced false confessions or not. I haven't posted here for a long time, but recently, the anger at the injustice I faced ten years ago resurfaced again, and now I am letting it out again.
That's good what you are doing. The CIA coerces innocent people into false confessions. There is discrimination and bias from the polygraph examiners and adjudicators so that they can treat examinees like monsters without repercussions. They don't care about examinees or their careers. Their only goal is to elicit confessions, whether they are coerced false confessions or not. I haven't posted here for a long time, but recently, the anger at the injustice I faced ten years ago resurfaced again, and now I am letting it out again.
Posted by another cia reject
- Sep 18, 2023, 11:43 PMHey ptrck, are you the same "ptrck" who started this May 2015 thread entitled "CIA Clearance Denial Appeal Length?"
Did you also post with the guest name "ptrckhsu" and registered username "ptrck123" (and maybe other screen names) in that same thread?
What ever happened to your CIA Clearance Denial Appeal?
Did your government contracting job at the time fire you after your clearance denial or did they take other actions?
Were you ever able to get a clearance from another agency? How has your career been since that incident?
You stated that you were forced to admit to illegal porn viewing habits. I can understand how that experience can last in perpetuity. You should post all documents that you received from the CIA and your employer on a blog or just on this site. I encourage everyone to come forward and put these polygraphers on blast.
I also got rejected from the CIA because of my polygraph. Then, I tried to reapply many years later and was rejected right after my interview when they likely ran my name and/or SSN through some database and saw I had previously "failed" their polygraph.
I actually teach people how to beat it now. The easiest thing for everyone to know is that they WILL be interrogated and they just have to stick to their guns and not confess. Even if they have committed a serious crime, if they were never caught, the polygraphers will never know so you can just relax and don't worry about being nervous. Once you know what to expect, there is no need for any countermeasures. No confessions is the key to passing.
Several people are in law enforcement or have TS/SCI clearances with polygraphs thanks to me. I don't know if these people are criminals but I don't care. Having criminals pass it is just as bad as having innocent people fail it which is why it should be abolished.
Did you also post with the guest name "ptrckhsu" and registered username "ptrck123" (and maybe other screen names) in that same thread?
What ever happened to your CIA Clearance Denial Appeal?
Did your government contracting job at the time fire you after your clearance denial or did they take other actions?
Were you ever able to get a clearance from another agency? How has your career been since that incident?
You stated that you were forced to admit to illegal porn viewing habits. I can understand how that experience can last in perpetuity. You should post all documents that you received from the CIA and your employer on a blog or just on this site. I encourage everyone to come forward and put these polygraphers on blast.
I also got rejected from the CIA because of my polygraph. Then, I tried to reapply many years later and was rejected right after my interview when they likely ran my name and/or SSN through some database and saw I had previously "failed" their polygraph.
I actually teach people how to beat it now. The easiest thing for everyone to know is that they WILL be interrogated and they just have to stick to their guns and not confess. Even if they have committed a serious crime, if they were never caught, the polygraphers will never know so you can just relax and don't worry about being nervous. Once you know what to expect, there is no need for any countermeasures. No confessions is the key to passing.
Several people are in law enforcement or have TS/SCI clearances with polygraphs thanks to me. I don't know if these people are criminals but I don't care. Having criminals pass it is just as bad as having innocent people fail it which is why it should be abolished.
Posted by ptrck
- Sep 18, 2023, 08:20 PMUser35,
Correct, the Reid Technique has been known to coerce innocent people into false confessions. I experienced it with the CIA. It uses many manipulative and coercive tactics. I will be taking a course on the John E. Reid Technique with Reid & Accociates to have a better understanding of how it works and criticize it: https://reid.com/
Correct, the Reid Technique has been known to coerce innocent people into false confessions. I experienced it with the CIA. It uses many manipulative and coercive tactics. I will be taking a course on the John E. Reid Technique with Reid & Accociates to have a better understanding of how it works and criticize it: https://reid.com/
Posted by User35
- Sep 18, 2023, 07:39 PMQuoteGood resources, I read them.
I also recommend this primary textbook on the Reid Technique: https://www.amazon.com/Essentials-Reid-Technique-Interrogation-Confessions/dp/1449691102/ref=sr_1_1?crid=8J3YO23LR82&keywords=essentials+of+the+reid+technique&qid=1695063387&sprefix=reid+technique+and+,aps,171&sr=8-1
What's funny is that much like the polygraph, the Reid Technique is also complete junk science that has no basis in real facts or evidence.
Posted by ptrck
- Sep 18, 2023, 02:59 PMGood resources, I read them.
I also recommend this primary textbook on the Reid Technique: https://www.amazon.com/Essentials-Reid-Technique-Interrogation-Confessions/dp/1449691102/ref=sr_1_1?crid=8J3YO23LR82&keywords=essentials+of+the+reid+technique&qid=1695063387&sprefix=reid+technique+and+%2Caps%2C171&sr=8-1
I also recommend this primary textbook on the Reid Technique: https://www.amazon.com/Essentials-Reid-Technique-Interrogation-Confessions/dp/1449691102/ref=sr_1_1?crid=8J3YO23LR82&keywords=essentials+of+the+reid+technique&qid=1695063387&sprefix=reid+technique+and+%2Caps%2C171&sr=8-1
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Sep 18, 2023, 02:54 PMFor further reading on interrogation themes in polygraphy, see the National Center for Credibility Assessment document, "Interview & Interrogation," dated 2013:
https://antipolygraph.org/documents/ncca-interview-interrogation.pdf
An earlier version of this document dated 1991 is available here:
https://antipolygraph.org/documents/dodpi-interrogation.pdf
https://antipolygraph.org/documents/ncca-interview-interrogation.pdf
An earlier version of this document dated 1991 is available here:
https://antipolygraph.org/documents/dodpi-interrogation.pdf
Posted by ptrck
- Sep 18, 2023, 01:54 PMCIA polygraphers will employ a theme to elicit a confession or derogatory admission. A theme is a moral excuse for why the examinee committed an act that minimizes or lessens the moral implications of the conduct. It serves as a crutch for the examinee to make him more open to confess and implicate himself with the disqualifying act. There are several themes the polygraph examiner might employ:
1. Anyone else under similar circumstances might have done the same thing
• For example, if the examiner is attempting to elicit a confession that you smoked pot or used drugs at a party, he might suggest that everyone else at the party was doing it, and anyone else in your situation would have done the same thing due to peer pressure.
2. Minimizing the moral seriousness of the act
• For example, if the examiner is attempting to elicit a confession that you mishandled sensitive information at work, he might suggest to you the documents were not that sensitive and would not have caused major repercussions. You would just have been morally reprimanded.
3. Suggesting a less reprehensible and morally acceptable motivation for the act
• For example, if the examiner is attempting to elicit a confession that you stole money from the cash register, he might suggest you needed the money to support your family and sick grandparents.
4. Sympathize with the examinee by condemning others
• For example, if the examiner is attempting to elicit a confession that you got into a street fight, he might blame the person you fought for provoking you.
The moment the examinee agrees with the theme that the polygrapher examiner tries to coerce the examinee into acknowledging is when the examinee implicates themselves with the act. Do not acknowledge the themes! Do not shoot yourself in your own foot. Once you do, then it is game over.
1. Anyone else under similar circumstances might have done the same thing
• For example, if the examiner is attempting to elicit a confession that you smoked pot or used drugs at a party, he might suggest that everyone else at the party was doing it, and anyone else in your situation would have done the same thing due to peer pressure.
2. Minimizing the moral seriousness of the act
• For example, if the examiner is attempting to elicit a confession that you mishandled sensitive information at work, he might suggest to you the documents were not that sensitive and would not have caused major repercussions. You would just have been morally reprimanded.
3. Suggesting a less reprehensible and morally acceptable motivation for the act
• For example, if the examiner is attempting to elicit a confession that you stole money from the cash register, he might suggest you needed the money to support your family and sick grandparents.
4. Sympathize with the examinee by condemning others
• For example, if the examiner is attempting to elicit a confession that you got into a street fight, he might blame the person you fought for provoking you.
The moment the examinee agrees with the theme that the polygrapher examiner tries to coerce the examinee into acknowledging is when the examinee implicates themselves with the act. Do not acknowledge the themes! Do not shoot yourself in your own foot. Once you do, then it is game over.