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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by Animal
- Aug 28, 2020, 11:22 AMQuote@ AnimalIt's been a month now. What's the latest?
I agree there's several conflicts of interest in my situation. I will definitely keep you guys posted as to what is happening.
Posted by Perry Mason
- Aug 05, 2020, 10:45 PMDone.
Posted by Oh no, please help
- Aug 01, 2020, 04:43 PM@ Perry Mason
Thanks again; I checked everywhere and I didn't receive the e-mail. Will you please forward it to dmg00@protonmail.com?
Thanks again; I checked everywhere and I didn't receive the e-mail. Will you please forward it to dmg00@protonmail.com?
Posted by Perry Mason
- Jul 31, 2020, 02:23 PMMr. Oh No,
I sent you an email to the email address then appearing for you; to-wit: stjohnxxxxxxxxx@gmail.com. If you didn't receive it (check your spam folder), let me know or post a "throwaway" address. Good luck.
I sent you an email to the email address then appearing for you; to-wit: stjohnxxxxxxxxx@gmail.com. If you didn't receive it (check your spam folder), let me know or post a "throwaway" address. Good luck.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Jul 31, 2020, 05:05 AMQuote from: Oh no, please help on Jul 30, 2020, 09:30 PMHello all,
I wanted to give you a quick update:
@ George W. Maschke
I signed the release form and the polygrapher is "preparing the report" and should have it all to the prosecutor, including the computer generated data files, by early next week. That should give us a solid week before the hearing, if that is enough time for you.
All the best..
If you can send me the data by email promptly after you receive it, that would be helpful. In case the files are too large for email, then contact me privately and I'll provide you with a link at which you can securely upload files to me.
Posted by Oh no, please help
- Jul 30, 2020, 09:30 PMHello all,
I wanted to give you a quick update:
@ George W. Maschke
I signed the release form and the polygrapher is "preparing the report" and should have it all to the prosecutor, including the computer generated data files, by early next week. That should give us a solid week before the hearing, if that is enough time for you.
@ Perry Mason
I very much appreciate your willingness to help. I tried to figure out where to click so I could see your email address, but I could not find it. I registered a new account, so once it is approved, maybe I can see your email? I will check back asap. If that doesn't work, I can just make a throwaway protomail email address and post it here for you to find me, if that works.
@ Animal
I agree there's several conflicts of interest in my situation. I will definitely keep you guys posted as to what is happening.
All the best..
I wanted to give you a quick update:
@ George W. Maschke
I signed the release form and the polygrapher is "preparing the report" and should have it all to the prosecutor, including the computer generated data files, by early next week. That should give us a solid week before the hearing, if that is enough time for you.
@ Perry Mason
I very much appreciate your willingness to help. I tried to figure out where to click so I could see your email address, but I could not find it. I registered a new account, so once it is approved, maybe I can see your email? I will check back asap. If that doesn't work, I can just make a throwaway protomail email address and post it here for you to find me, if that works.
@ Animal
I agree there's several conflicts of interest in my situation. I will definitely keep you guys posted as to what is happening.
All the best..
Posted by Animal
- Jul 29, 2020, 12:57 AMQuoteI went to high school with him; he was always a bully. As for my former treatment provider, she is married to the polygrapher in question so I doubt she would be sympathetic.A very strange conflict of interest.
I'm sorry for previously doubting the veracity of your story. It was a combination of the bizarre details and you seemed too articulate to me for someone in your situation. I hope it works out for you. Please keep us updated.
Posted by Perry Mason
- Jul 27, 2020, 10:37 PMDear Oh No:
No need to post the documents here. Email me. I'll let you know what I need and can then give you an opinion. What you referenced is relevant, so the documents from which you cited would be among the documents I'd like to see. I look forward to hearing from you.
No need to post the documents here. Email me. I'll let you know what I need and can then give you an opinion. What you referenced is relevant, so the documents from which you cited would be among the documents I'd like to see. I look forward to hearing from you.
Posted by Oh no, please help
- Jul 27, 2020, 01:46 PMHello everyone,
Thank you so much for your offers of assistance! I don't know what to say. This is definitely heartening.
George W. Maschke: The prosecutor received your request for all the related polygraph materials in her inbox this morning. Once I get them, I would definitely be grateful if you could review them. I also made incredibly detailed contemporaneous notes that captured the whole exchange between the polygrapher and I, nearly verbatim, if that would be helpful.
Perry Mason: Thank you! I do have an attorney, but I would be happy to type in the accusation here, if you want to see it. It's only a page or two. Basically, they are saying they want to revoke my probation based on "failure to consent to a polygraph examination as directed." The exact portion of the condition they allege I have violated is: "Consent to polygraph testing if recommended by therapist or as directed by probation officer as part of treatment or monitoring." After that, they include a couple of paragraphs of the polygrapher's report. Interestingly, there are key differences between the report and what actually happened. He exaggerates the report in several places to make it sound like a more easily-identifiable pattern of countermeasures.
Animal: Polygraph operators don't wear uniforms; you are correct. My attorney had said the PO would be there in uniform, and the polygrapher would be present as an "expert" witness and I had envisioned them both in uniforms. Apologies.
I have been extremely compliant and cooperative, and I finished all conditions of my 24 month probation 14 months ago, including the treatment. But no matter what I do, my PO has decided on his own that I was inadequately sentenced and has appointed himself as my judge, jury, and executioner. I went to high school with him; he was always a bully. As for my former treatment provider, she is married to the polygrapher in question so I doubt she would be sympathetic. I am facing up to a year in jail at this point but I have lots of other stuff to do with my life, and jail is terrible. Please let me know if I can clear up anything else.
Dan Mangan: Thank you. I am definitely feeling better today than I was when I originally posted. I didn't think there would be anyone I could reach out to, who could hear me and maybe even help in time. Ironically, my polygrapher is the one who directed me to this site. He claimed I was sniffing and coughing and taking deep breaths (side note: I wasn't) which, he said, was "straight out of antipolygraph.org or .com or whatever."
Thank you so much for your offers of assistance! I don't know what to say. This is definitely heartening.
George W. Maschke: The prosecutor received your request for all the related polygraph materials in her inbox this morning. Once I get them, I would definitely be grateful if you could review them. I also made incredibly detailed contemporaneous notes that captured the whole exchange between the polygrapher and I, nearly verbatim, if that would be helpful.
Perry Mason: Thank you! I do have an attorney, but I would be happy to type in the accusation here, if you want to see it. It's only a page or two. Basically, they are saying they want to revoke my probation based on "failure to consent to a polygraph examination as directed." The exact portion of the condition they allege I have violated is: "Consent to polygraph testing if recommended by therapist or as directed by probation officer as part of treatment or monitoring." After that, they include a couple of paragraphs of the polygrapher's report. Interestingly, there are key differences between the report and what actually happened. He exaggerates the report in several places to make it sound like a more easily-identifiable pattern of countermeasures.
Animal: Polygraph operators don't wear uniforms; you are correct. My attorney had said the PO would be there in uniform, and the polygrapher would be present as an "expert" witness and I had envisioned them both in uniforms. Apologies.
I have been extremely compliant and cooperative, and I finished all conditions of my 24 month probation 14 months ago, including the treatment. But no matter what I do, my PO has decided on his own that I was inadequately sentenced and has appointed himself as my judge, jury, and executioner. I went to high school with him; he was always a bully. As for my former treatment provider, she is married to the polygrapher in question so I doubt she would be sympathetic. I am facing up to a year in jail at this point but I have lots of other stuff to do with my life, and jail is terrible. Please let me know if I can clear up anything else.
Dan Mangan: Thank you. I am definitely feeling better today than I was when I originally posted. I didn't think there would be anyone I could reach out to, who could hear me and maybe even help in time. Ironically, my polygrapher is the one who directed me to this site. He claimed I was sniffing and coughing and taking deep breaths (side note: I wasn't) which, he said, was "straight out of antipolygraph.org or .com or whatever."
Posted by Dan Mangan
- Jul 25, 2020, 09:50 PMQuoteQuoteForgive me if I am wrong, but somehow your story does not ring true with me.
Speaking as a full member of the American Polygraph Association with considerable PCSOT experience, I disagree.
But maybe I'm wrong.
In any event, the OP needs to have his "test" reviewed by independent resources.
Posted by Animal
- Jul 25, 2020, 02:53 PMQuoteI have a lawyer who says our chances are not good because they'll be in uniforms testifying they suspect I used countermeasures.Polygraph operators don't wear uniforms. I find it hard to believe that your PO would schedule a full revocation hearing based upon a single opinion of possible employment of countermeasures. Your treatment provider should be involved in this decision. Moreover, how much time can you be looking at for a misdemeanor offense? It's usually a year at the most which would not cover enough time to complete SO treatment which can last over 2 years in most cases. I disagree with your lawyer that your chances are "not good." Forgive me if I am wrong, but somehow your story does not ring true with me.
Posted by Perry Mason
- Jul 24, 2020, 03:11 PMI'm surprised at your level of supervision for a misdemeanor probation. I don't know what jurisdiction you are in, but I am willing, pro bono, to review your relevant legal documents and give you my legal opinion. (I am a licensed attorney.) I suspect you have defenses you are unaware of.
I recommend you retain an attorney ASAP, if possible. If not possible, request court-appointed counsel. Good luck to you.
I recommend you retain an attorney ASAP, if possible. If not possible, request court-appointed counsel. Good luck to you.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Jul 24, 2020, 02:27 PMYour lawyer should demand a copy of the computerized data file associated with your polygraph "test," including any video and/or audio recording made of the session, and any and all associated paper documents.
I will be happy to provide a pro bono written critique of the polygraph interrogation that you can use in your hearing. I am also willing to testify at your hearing via videoconferencing. It should be noted that no polygraph operator has ever demonstrated any ability to detect sophisticated polygraph countermeasures (the kind that anyone who understands polygraph procedure might employ).
I will be happy to provide a pro bono written critique of the polygraph interrogation that you can use in your hearing. I am also willing to testify at your hearing via videoconferencing. It should be noted that no polygraph operator has ever demonstrated any ability to detect sophisticated polygraph countermeasures (the kind that anyone who understands polygraph procedure might employ).
Posted by Oh no, please help
- Jul 24, 2020, 02:01 PMHello,
My PO has never been a fan of me. All my sex offense accusations were rightfully dropped and I decided to take a plea deal to a misdemeanor. I did that so they could put me in treatment, including polygraphs. My PO is a sex-offender-only-PO who very clearly has it out for me personally.
All of my polygraphs have been fine, until last month. My PO sent me to some other guy, a personal friend of his, and this polygrapher was a jerk from the beginning. He accused me right away of countermeasures, and on the third chart he ratcheted my cuff down so tightly, my arm started turning purple. He says I moved my arm during that third set.
He said I was breathing weird on 3 questions the first time, 2 the second time, and all but one question the third time. He said any polygrapher who had read 5 charts could see I was using countermeasures. (I wasn't. He specifically mentioned this site by name, so I came here to learn the rules of his little demented game.)
Anyway, my PO immediately and gleefully filed to revoke my probation based on this one test and his friend's opinion. I have a lawyer who says our chances are not good because they'll be in uniforms testifying they suspect I used countermeasures. I will be there testifying I didn't, and the judge will obviously rule for them.
Can anyone offer advice? There has to be a way to flag this as absurd. Isn't there a pile of case law of polygraphs like this getting thrown out somewhere? Is there any magical guideline out there saying I shouldn't be put away on one polygrapher's one-test opinion? I feel like the world has gone crazy.
If anyone can point me in the right direction or give me a hint of an idea, I have a couple of weeks before my hearing. Please help! Day to day, I am holding it together for my family but inside, I am falling apart. I hate this.
My PO has never been a fan of me. All my sex offense accusations were rightfully dropped and I decided to take a plea deal to a misdemeanor. I did that so they could put me in treatment, including polygraphs. My PO is a sex-offender-only-PO who very clearly has it out for me personally.
All of my polygraphs have been fine, until last month. My PO sent me to some other guy, a personal friend of his, and this polygrapher was a jerk from the beginning. He accused me right away of countermeasures, and on the third chart he ratcheted my cuff down so tightly, my arm started turning purple. He says I moved my arm during that third set.
He said I was breathing weird on 3 questions the first time, 2 the second time, and all but one question the third time. He said any polygrapher who had read 5 charts could see I was using countermeasures. (I wasn't. He specifically mentioned this site by name, so I came here to learn the rules of his little demented game.)
Anyway, my PO immediately and gleefully filed to revoke my probation based on this one test and his friend's opinion. I have a lawyer who says our chances are not good because they'll be in uniforms testifying they suspect I used countermeasures. I will be there testifying I didn't, and the judge will obviously rule for them.
Can anyone offer advice? There has to be a way to flag this as absurd. Isn't there a pile of case law of polygraphs like this getting thrown out somewhere? Is there any magical guideline out there saying I shouldn't be put away on one polygrapher's one-test opinion? I feel like the world has gone crazy.
If anyone can point me in the right direction or give me a hint of an idea, I have a couple of weeks before my hearing. Please help! Day to day, I am holding it together for my family but inside, I am falling apart. I hate this.