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Posted by troll_of_truth
- Oct 04, 2020, 11:01 AMThis story is plausible. Ya know, all of the recent fictional spy movies focus on Russia and some Middle Eastern country as the enemy spies of the U.S. I have yet to see a movie about China, the biggest red flag (get the pun?) to U.S. national security this present day. In fact, recently in late September 2020 the DOJ published their China Initiative plan:
https://www.justice.gov/opa/information-about-department-justice-s-china-initiative-and-compilation-china-related
The FBI also released yet another dramatization film based on true events of Americans who spied for China:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5V7G9IBomQ
I am sure there are many cleared Americans who are selling secrets to China, Russia, Iran, Cuba, and many other countries who are threats to the U.S. They are just smart enough not to get caught and keep their payments off the books so the U.S. government won't know. With Covid-19 cases rising, the upcoming election hostility, police brutality and killings, riots, espionage on the rise, and people learning how to beat the polygraph so they can hide their crimes and contribute to some of these things, the U.S. is just getting daily fucked and twice on Sunday. Buckle up folks; it is going to get uglier.
https://www.justice.gov/opa/information-about-department-justice-s-china-initiative-and-compilation-china-related
The FBI also released yet another dramatization film based on true events of Americans who spied for China:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5V7G9IBomQ
I am sure there are many cleared Americans who are selling secrets to China, Russia, Iran, Cuba, and many other countries who are threats to the U.S. They are just smart enough not to get caught and keep their payments off the books so the U.S. government won't know. With Covid-19 cases rising, the upcoming election hostility, police brutality and killings, riots, espionage on the rise, and people learning how to beat the polygraph so they can hide their crimes and contribute to some of these things, the U.S. is just getting daily fucked and twice on Sunday. Buckle up folks; it is going to get uglier.
Posted by Animal
- Jun 20, 2020, 10:37 AMQuoteTake my clearance, I sell your secrets. Payback is a bitch.This sounds more like a 7th grader than someone who "designs military weapons."
Posted by Me Too
- Jun 20, 2020, 03:51 AMJust found this site and this thread. I did the same thing. I'm posting in an anonymous location from an anonymous computer with no cameras or login info, and I am also wearing gloves to avoid leaving fingerprints. I used the Tor browser. All this so the feds do not find me. I lost my TS/SCI clearance after a criminal conviction and got fired from my job designing military weapons. I was pissed. I found the contact info of some foreigners that I suspected were spied that I met at a DOD conference years ago, reunited, and sold them all the classified weapons plans that I knew. These spies pay good money for this stuff, I was given bundles of cash. Take my clearance, I sell your secrets. Payback is a bitch.
Posted by warning
- Jun 01, 2020, 07:50 PMTo Criminal,
I would advise you to cease and desist with any further information. Law enforcement use a variety of tactics to get criminals to either confess or provide enough information to lead to an arrest warrant. In your case, if your story is true but you did indeed lie or skew your personal details, that was smart, however you should stop posting right now! One common law enforcement method is to accuse a perpetrator of lying, challenging his or her intellect or stoicism, or just flat out saying to the perp that he or she is too stupid and cowardly to even have the ability to commit the crime. The perp then tries to prove how smart and tough they are and convince the law enforcement officer that he or she could commit the crime, gives more and more information that he or she thinks is inconsequential, and then boom! Enough evidence for an arrest! Please do not fall for this. It is bad enough you are telling your story trying to gloat on a public form, but I think you have said enough. Let quickfix, George, and others argue over how true or untrue your story is, because George is right about criminals rarely confession on public forms, and quickfix would love to know more information so he can see you arrested, so he will keep poking holes in your story to get you to post more information. As of now, your identity is still safe, but no more posting. Run along and enjoy the fruits of your labor...er...treason....in peace.
(I have no pronoun) Warning
I would advise you to cease and desist with any further information. Law enforcement use a variety of tactics to get criminals to either confess or provide enough information to lead to an arrest warrant. In your case, if your story is true but you did indeed lie or skew your personal details, that was smart, however you should stop posting right now! One common law enforcement method is to accuse a perpetrator of lying, challenging his or her intellect or stoicism, or just flat out saying to the perp that he or she is too stupid and cowardly to even have the ability to commit the crime. The perp then tries to prove how smart and tough they are and convince the law enforcement officer that he or she could commit the crime, gives more and more information that he or she thinks is inconsequential, and then boom! Enough evidence for an arrest! Please do not fall for this. It is bad enough you are telling your story trying to gloat on a public form, but I think you have said enough. Let quickfix, George, and others argue over how true or untrue your story is, because George is right about criminals rarely confession on public forms, and quickfix would love to know more information so he can see you arrested, so he will keep poking holes in your story to get you to post more information. As of now, your identity is still safe, but no more posting. Run along and enjoy the fruits of your labor...er...treason....in peace.
(I have no pronoun) Warning
Posted by quickfix
- Jun 01, 2020, 04:17 PMQuote from: George_Maschke on Jun 01, 2020, 04:03 PMI think the most significant reason to be skeptical of Criminal's claim to have sold classified information to a foreign entity is simply that it is highly unusual for anyone to make such a confession on a public forum (even anonymously, even using Tor).
That much we are in complete agreement with. And if you notice above, the poster has admitted that a part of his story is "bullshit". His "5% bullshit" is undoubtedly BS as well. Conservative estimate: add a zero after that 5!
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Jun 01, 2020, 04:03 PMquickfix,
My point is that while the precise meaning of the term "loss of jurisdiction" within the JPAS system may be very clear to you, it does not follow that all cleared personnel will share your understanding. It is for this reason that I think the original poster's (mis-)use of the term ("since I was no longer employed, no new employer could get my clearance back. Something called loss of jurisdiction") is much of a basis for concluding that his core claims are baseless.
I think the most significant reason to be skeptical of Criminal's claim to have sold classified information to a foreign entity is simply that it is highly unusual for anyone to make such a confession on a public forum (even anonymously, even using Tor).
My point is that while the precise meaning of the term "loss of jurisdiction" within the JPAS system may be very clear to you, it does not follow that all cleared personnel will share your understanding. It is for this reason that I think the original poster's (mis-)use of the term ("since I was no longer employed, no new employer could get my clearance back. Something called loss of jurisdiction") is much of a basis for concluding that his core claims are baseless.
I think the most significant reason to be skeptical of Criminal's claim to have sold classified information to a foreign entity is simply that it is highly unusual for anyone to make such a confession on a public forum (even anonymously, even using Tor).
Posted by quickfix
- Jun 01, 2020, 03:38 PMQuote from: George_Maschke on Jun 01, 2020, 03:27 PMWhen I characterized "loss of jurisdiction" as an arcane bit of jargon, I wasn't suggesting that it is not a bona fide JPAS entry. But it is a specialized term of art whose precise meaning is not readily apparent to those who do not routinely work with JPAS.
Exactly: it's not a specialized term of art; it is an official adjudication category; and since you have no knowledge or training in the JPAS system, you should not be offering opinions about a topic of which you have absolutely no experience.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Jun 01, 2020, 03:27 PMquickfix, no offense taken. I have indeed never used JPAS, and I welcome your informed commentary.
You note that "contractor facility security officers do have JPAS accounts so they may enter incident reports." This being so, and "Criminal" having allegedly been a government contractor, I still do not see how his reference to JPAS ("An incident report went into JPAS...") derogates from his credibility.
When I characterized "loss of jurisdiction" as an arcane bit of jargon, I wasn't suggesting that it is not a bona fide JPAS entry. But it is a specialized term of art whose precise meaning is not readily apparent to those who do not routinely work with JPAS.
You note that "contractor facility security officers do have JPAS accounts so they may enter incident reports." This being so, and "Criminal" having allegedly been a government contractor, I still do not see how his reference to JPAS ("An incident report went into JPAS...") derogates from his credibility.
When I characterized "loss of jurisdiction" as an arcane bit of jargon, I wasn't suggesting that it is not a bona fide JPAS entry. But it is a specialized term of art whose precise meaning is not readily apparent to those who do not routinely work with JPAS.
Posted by quickfix
- Jun 01, 2020, 03:01 PMGeorge: no offense but you are woefully unqualified to render opinions about the use of JPAS. I have JPAS access, in fact my agency requires formal training as a condition of being granted an account. NSA does not use JPAS. CIA does not use JPAS. NGA does not use JPAS. NRO does not use JPAS. I will clarify one thing, contractor facility security officers do have JPAS accounts so they may enter incident reports; the above 3-letter agencies do not.
"Loss of jurisdiction" means exactly what I said it means. It is not an "arcane" piece of jargon; it is a bona-fide JPAS entry. (And BTW, I was in adjudications before I was in polygraph.) I so stated more than once in posts years ago on this site.
"Loss of jurisdiction" means exactly what I said it means. It is not an "arcane" piece of jargon; it is a bona-fide JPAS entry. (And BTW, I was in adjudications before I was in polygraph.) I so stated more than once in posts years ago on this site.
Posted by Animal
- Jun 01, 2020, 12:41 PMQuoteActually, on a scale of 0 to 100, only about 5 of what I said is bullshit.You do the antipolygraph cause no service by lying. Also, I would caution you against admitting to any crime in any forum.
Posted by Criminal
- Jun 01, 2020, 11:22 AMQuote from: George_Maschke on Jun 01, 2020, 04:43 AM
The author did not claim that these events took place 20 years ago, but rather between 1 January 2000 and the date of posting.
Thank you, George.
Quote from: quickfix on May 31, 2020, 04:52 PMThis story scores a 99 out of 100 on the bullshit scale.
Actually, on a scale of 0 to 100, only about 5 of what I said is bullshit.
The truths:
I did lie and pass the polygraph. How did I do it? Just from research, remaining calm, and using mental countermeasures on control questions. It is not hard once you know what to expect and you are prepared for the comical interrogation, which is just like something out of a movie. I did conceal many crimes that I've done in the past. The list I provided in my original post is not exclusive. I did work for a contractor where I knew of many bad things that my coworkers and bosses did and got away with. I did lose my job and security clearance due to an incident and had an incident report put in JPAS. I did try to apply for other clearance job and was told they could not process my clearance due to an incident report. I even got to see the incident report. I did sell classified info to a foreign entity for a ton of money. The term ton is subjective. I did not specify the amount. What I consider a ton of money you may thing is more or less. Foreign entities pay good money for any classified information whether it is tangible or in a person's head. I laundered the dirty money of course, so I was never caught and there is no record of me ever receiving this money. You don't have to believe this story if you want to defend and protect the almighty polygraph and our robust national security protocols that prevent these things from happening, but you and I know there are many criminals who are never caught. Never.
The bullshit:
Details about my personal life. I know the feds monitor Antipolygraph.org. I read this story on here before and did not want this to happen to me, as I fear user KC1 may have gotten thrown in prison. In case the feds decide to investigate my post, they can look up all the contractors in the last 20 years who lost their job and clearance, I'm sure there are countless numbers of us. Good luck picking me out, it will be like finding a needle in a haystack. I skewed some of the details of my personal life, including the incident that led me to lose my clearance, to protect my identity. I also posted using Tor and a bullshit email address.
I wrote this post to share my story and proof that the polygraph does not work. I also wanted to finally confess, and somewhat brag, that I got the last laugh with the U.S. government. I was pissed when I lost my career, so I decided to royally fuck the government one good time before it was all over with.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Jun 01, 2020, 04:43 AMquickfix,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. I have not reached any conclusion on whether "Criminal's" post is substantially true or false. However, the arguments you've adduced would not lead me to conclude with 99% confidence, as you do, that this story is bullshit, for reasons I'll explain below.
The author did not claim that these events took place 20 years ago, but rather between 1 January 2000 and the date of posting.
I agree with you on this.
I think you are mistaken about this. In 2017, U.S. News & World Report reported about an employee who "began work at the ODNI's Office of the National Counterintelligence Executive in May 2010." According to a 2014 report by the Office of the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community, "Between June 10, 2013 and July 2, 2013, [the employee] ran JPAS record searches for Edward Snowden 357 times under three of her accounts [with outside contractors] while at ODNI facilities during duty hours."
Edward Snowden was an NSA contractor (with Dell and Booze Allen Hamilton) and was subject to full-scope polygraph screening. It seems unlikely that an ODNI employee would have done hundreds of JPAS searches on him if, as you aver, "None of the agencies who administer full[scope testing use JPAS."
Your analysis here is highly speculative. Some who have sold classified information have received relatively large sums for it, such as Aldrich Ames and Robert Hanssen. Information that a former cleared person knows in his head can be quite valuable, for example if it concerns the identities of U.S. intelligence assets abroad or details of expensive SIGINT systems.
In addition, because vast amounts of electronic documents can be and have been secreted out of SCIFs, even by people who had no apparent plan to sell the data (see, for example, the case of Nghia Hoang Pho), it is not necessarily the case that the only information "Criminal" could have sold is that which was in his head.
For a person whose job was not in background investigations or making security clearance determinations to misuse an arcane bit of jargon such as "loss of jurisdiction" is weak evidence, if it is evidence at all.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. I have not reached any conclusion on whether "Criminal's" post is substantially true or false. However, the arguments you've adduced would not lead me to conclude with 99% confidence, as you do, that this story is bullshit, for reasons I'll explain below.
Quote from: quickfix on May 31, 2020, 04:52 PMThis story scores a 99 out of 100 on the bullshit scale. It is full of telltale clues indicative of someone making up a story, and on this site, it's easy to spot. First, this so-called story could not have happened 20 years ago, since JPAS did not exist 20 years ago.
The author did not claim that these events took place 20 years ago, but rather between 1 January 2000 and the date of posting.
QuoteSecond, the test questions referred to would constitute a full-scope polygraph.
I agree with you on this.
QuoteNone of the agencies who administer full[scope testing use JPAS, so the so-called "incident report" would not have been made in JPAS.
I think you are mistaken about this. In 2017, U.S. News & World Report reported about an employee who "began work at the ODNI's Office of the National Counterintelligence Executive in May 2010." According to a 2014 report by the Office of the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community, "Between June 10, 2013 and July 2, 2013, [the employee] ran JPAS record searches for Edward Snowden 357 times under three of her accounts [with outside contractors] while at ODNI facilities during duty hours."
Edward Snowden was an NSA contractor (with Dell and Booze Allen Hamilton) and was subject to full-scope polygraph screening. It seems unlikely that an ODNI employee would have done hundreds of JPAS searches on him if, as you aver, "None of the agencies who administer full[scope testing use JPAS."
QuoteThird, contractors are hired for specific duties, so their access is limited. And if his badge and clearance were revoked, he would not have made a "ton of money", as foreign intelligence makes every attempt to pay as little as possible for highly classified information. Even if the storyteller had a photographic memory, he would not be able to sell anything, much less for a "ton of money". Foreign intelligence does not pay for information in one's head.
Your analysis here is highly speculative. Some who have sold classified information have received relatively large sums for it, such as Aldrich Ames and Robert Hanssen. Information that a former cleared person knows in his head can be quite valuable, for example if it concerns the identities of U.S. intelligence assets abroad or details of expensive SIGINT systems.
In addition, because vast amounts of electronic documents can be and have been secreted out of SCIFs, even by people who had no apparent plan to sell the data (see, for example, the case of Nghia Hoang Pho), it is not necessarily the case that the only information "Criminal" could have sold is that which was in his head.
QuoteFinally, "loss of jurisdiction" has nothing to do with revocation or suspension of one's clearance. It means that the clearance adjudication process was halted because the person was no longer being considered for employment, or moved to another job with another agency and the former agency has no vested interest to continue the background check.
For a person whose job was not in background investigations or making security clearance determinations to misuse an arcane bit of jargon such as "loss of jurisdiction" is weak evidence, if it is evidence at all.
Posted by quickfix
- May 31, 2020, 04:52 PMThis story scores a 99 out of 100 on the bullshit scale. It is full of telltale clues indicative of someone making up a story, and on this site, it's easy to spot. First, this so-called story could not have happened 20 years ago, since JPAS did not exist 20 years ago. Second, the test questions referred to would constitute a full-scope polygraph. None of the agencies who administer full[scope testing use JPAS, so the so-called "incident report" would not have been made in JPAS. Third, contractors are hired for specific duties, so their access is limited. And if his badge and clearance were revoked, he would not have made a "ton of money", as foreign intelligence makes every attempt to pay as little as possible for highly classified information. Even if the storyteller had a photographic memory, he would not be able to sell anything, much less for a "ton of money". Foreign intelligence does not pay for information in one's head. Finally, "loss of jurisdiction" has nothing to do with revocation or suspension of one's clearance. It means that the clearance adjudication process was halted because the person was no longer being considered for employment, or moved to another job with another agency and the former agency has no vested interest to continue the background check.
I normally ignore bullshit stories like the one above, but you did ask.
I normally ignore bullshit stories like the one above, but you did ask.
Posted by Animal
- May 31, 2020, 01:23 PMQuickfix, BS or?
Posted by Criminal
- May 31, 2020, 01:27 AMThis is my story. I will just say it happened sometime in the last 20 years. Maybe it was today, maybe it was at the stroke of midnight for y2k?
I took a polygraph for a government contracting job. I lied and passed. I remember two of the relevant questions were (a) did you intentionally lie on this application, and (b) have you EVER committed a serious crime that you have not disclosed. Well, to the latter, of course I've committed serious crimes, but I was not going to snitch on myself. I had way too much to drink before driving home from bars many times. I know that girl was passed out at that college party but I was determined to shag her anyway. That guy owed me money so he deserved to get his head split open with that beer bottle. I didn't have the money to pay for those items, so I took the RFID security tags off and stole them. All of those drugs are out of my system by now and there is no way you'll ever find out about them.
I got my TS/SCI and started working on the project. I worked with guys that I later found out were into prostitution, beating their wives, heavy drinking and gambling, and the like. One older guy, who was highly ranked in the organization, liked to flash his naked self to children, hotel maids, and anyone he got a chance to. It was a good ol' boys club, so no one ever got in trouble. I was going through a divorce and lost custody of my kids, so one night I hit a bar, got wasted, tried to drive home, and was busted for DUI. My job IMMEDIATELY suspended my clearance, took my badge, and walked me out the door. No questions asked. One day I'm working in a SCIF, the next day I'm a security threat and have to be escorted, despite my brain being filled with classified information. With all the years I've dedicated to the job and my astounding career, they decide to terminate me because of one little misdemeanor. I was pissed.
In my life I have seen too much selective enforcement. Like this case in 2015 where an FBI Agent is caught on camera assaulting a minor, is convicted in court, but no jail time. Keeps his job and gun and badge.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/fbi-agent-convicted-assault-caught-camera-knocking-teen/story?id=34972374
An incident report went into JPAS, and since I was no longer employed, no new employer could get my clearance back. Something called loss of jurisdiction. So now I'm divorced, without my kids, no job, and no way to get another job that required a clearance. I had been working on classified work my whole career, so I couldn't even disclose my specific job duties in my resume! So what did I do? I sold the classified information to a foreign entity, and got paid tons of money in cash for it.
I did my money laundering research so I was able to hide the funds. I didn't deposit it at a bank or make stupid large cash purchases. I just spent a little at a time on daily things, and even found ways to clean some of the money so it looked legit.
The point of this story? The polygraph does not work. I know from my experience and the lifestyle of those coworkers. The government should also watch how they treat employees who make mistakes. You really want to end someone's career for something completely unrelated to their job? Be careful of the inside threats like myself. We are vengeful. If the government mistreats us, we can cause hell with no remorse. I'm glad I sold those technologies, and I saw the benefits of my treason in the news. Dear U.S. government, don't fuck with us!
I took a polygraph for a government contracting job. I lied and passed. I remember two of the relevant questions were (a) did you intentionally lie on this application, and (b) have you EVER committed a serious crime that you have not disclosed. Well, to the latter, of course I've committed serious crimes, but I was not going to snitch on myself. I had way too much to drink before driving home from bars many times. I know that girl was passed out at that college party but I was determined to shag her anyway. That guy owed me money so he deserved to get his head split open with that beer bottle. I didn't have the money to pay for those items, so I took the RFID security tags off and stole them. All of those drugs are out of my system by now and there is no way you'll ever find out about them.
I got my TS/SCI and started working on the project. I worked with guys that I later found out were into prostitution, beating their wives, heavy drinking and gambling, and the like. One older guy, who was highly ranked in the organization, liked to flash his naked self to children, hotel maids, and anyone he got a chance to. It was a good ol' boys club, so no one ever got in trouble. I was going through a divorce and lost custody of my kids, so one night I hit a bar, got wasted, tried to drive home, and was busted for DUI. My job IMMEDIATELY suspended my clearance, took my badge, and walked me out the door. No questions asked. One day I'm working in a SCIF, the next day I'm a security threat and have to be escorted, despite my brain being filled with classified information. With all the years I've dedicated to the job and my astounding career, they decide to terminate me because of one little misdemeanor. I was pissed.
In my life I have seen too much selective enforcement. Like this case in 2015 where an FBI Agent is caught on camera assaulting a minor, is convicted in court, but no jail time. Keeps his job and gun and badge.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/fbi-agent-convicted-assault-caught-camera-knocking-teen/story?id=34972374
An incident report went into JPAS, and since I was no longer employed, no new employer could get my clearance back. Something called loss of jurisdiction. So now I'm divorced, without my kids, no job, and no way to get another job that required a clearance. I had been working on classified work my whole career, so I couldn't even disclose my specific job duties in my resume! So what did I do? I sold the classified information to a foreign entity, and got paid tons of money in cash for it.
I did my money laundering research so I was able to hide the funds. I didn't deposit it at a bank or make stupid large cash purchases. I just spent a little at a time on daily things, and even found ways to clean some of the money so it looked legit.
The point of this story? The polygraph does not work. I know from my experience and the lifestyle of those coworkers. The government should also watch how they treat employees who make mistakes. You really want to end someone's career for something completely unrelated to their job? Be careful of the inside threats like myself. We are vengeful. If the government mistreats us, we can cause hell with no remorse. I'm glad I sold those technologies, and I saw the benefits of my treason in the news. Dear U.S. government, don't fuck with us!