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Posted by Dan Mangan
- Sep 11, 2017, 08:42 PMThe aforementioned PCSOT Maintenance "test" that I have reviewed contains -- in my professional opinion -- multiple violations of the APA's model policy for such "testing."
Since spending some 13+ years in the polygraph "profession," my impression is that PCSOT "testing" is mainly about one thing: MONEY.
The "test" to which I refer strikes me as being emblematic of that sad condition.
Since spending some 13+ years in the polygraph "profession," my impression is that PCSOT "testing" is mainly about one thing: MONEY.
The "test" to which I refer strikes me as being emblematic of that sad condition.
Posted by skingalvanics
- Sep 10, 2017, 12:20 PMQuote from: Arkhangelsk on May 06, 2017, 06:13 PMDan, you remind me of Billy Hayes walking the circle counter-clockwise, upsetting all the Turkish mental patients.
Well, he was ultimately able to escape Turkey via that ruse.
I don't think that he was ever polygraphed by the Turks at least!
Posted by Dan Mangan
- Sep 09, 2017, 10:19 PMAfter much resistance, stonewalling and legal wrangling, I have, through a court order, managed to get the video of the aforementioned polygraph "test".
It's ugly.
It's ugly.
Posted by Joe McCarthy
- May 25, 2017, 10:57 PMfor the record, the program was started with good intentions, and I believe, when administered correctly, it works as it should.
But once it became big money, good intentions went out the window
But once it became big money, good intentions went out the window
Posted by Joe McCarthy
- May 25, 2017, 10:55 PMwell the train has just run into engine problems
Posted by Dan Mangan
- May 25, 2017, 10:27 PMYet, the PCSOT gravy train keeps on highballin' down the track -- all the way to the bank.
Posted by Joe McCarthy
- May 25, 2017, 10:17 PMAnd yes dan, the system is broken. but who has been ringing that bell for years?
Now the tolls
Now the tolls
Posted by Joe McCarthy
- May 25, 2017, 10:16 PMI was teasing ya about the studies thing. Sarcasm doesn't come across well in the written word.
Yes I know they were not used as DL's. That is one of the things I am being critical about.
BUT C5 WAS JUST FUCKING STUPID
That examiner needs to be smacked upside the head with a tac hammer
Yes I know they were not used as DL's. That is one of the things I am being critical about.
BUT C5 WAS JUST FUCKING STUPID
That examiner needs to be smacked upside the head with a tac hammer
Posted by Joe McCarthy
- May 25, 2017, 10:13 PMAs far as the behavior that is covered up in this industry catching up with them...
Oh look around. It's already happening. Go onto google and take a look, you'll find a few stories that haven't hit here yet.
Whats funny to me, I WARNED EVERYONE, that people were going to get smart to the PCSOT game, if they didn't knock it off. I warned everyone years ago, and now it is happening. The industry had 8 years to right itself, but noooooooooooooooo....
They thought that all they had to do was ignore me, and my warnings, and now the money game is catching up. People are getting smart, and examiners are running for cover when the tough questions are being asked.
Go ahead, hit google
Oh look around. It's already happening. Go onto google and take a look, you'll find a few stories that haven't hit here yet.
Whats funny to me, I WARNED EVERYONE, that people were going to get smart to the PCSOT game, if they didn't knock it off. I warned everyone years ago, and now it is happening. The industry had 8 years to right itself, but noooooooooooooooo....
They thought that all they had to do was ignore me, and my warnings, and now the money game is catching up. People are getting smart, and examiners are running for cover when the tough questions are being asked.
Go ahead, hit google
Posted by Dan Mangan
- May 25, 2017, 10:05 PMQuote from: Arkhangelsk on May 25, 2017, 09:39 PMQuote from: danmangan on May 03, 2017, 09:05 PM5C. Since being at [treatment center name], have you had any deviant sexual thoughts that you haven't reported? (NO)
Just a random stab from someone who has never been to any kind of PCSOT training:
For those whose minds are very disturbed and inundated with a flood of deviant thoughts, this CQ may be meagerly effective. But for "the honest client who is responding favorably to treatment", it is quite possible that he has been completely forthcoming with any and all deviant thoughts, even keeping a log to be certain. In this scenario, the CQ is weak and at risk of being overpowered by the adjacent RQ.
BINGO!
Thanks for noticing.
The ostensibly honest kid in SOTx -- who is now, BTW, a convicted FELON in "treatment" because of a sexting thing with another high-school student who's within a few weeks of the SO's age -- could never pass his requisite polygraph "test", due to the way the "test" was constructed.
Look again at the CQs, then put yourself in the shoes of that 15-year-old kid who's doing everything he can to cooperate, but who is jammed up in the SOTx "system."
The 15-year-old kid's mother asked the DOC authorities about the accuracy of the "test".
Their reply, in essence, is this: "We will not debate or discuss the polygraph. We've been using it for over 20 years. Your son is a liar."
Clearly, the system is broken.
Posted by Ex Member
- May 25, 2017, 09:41 PMThanks Joe, I am only familiar with the term "Directed Lie", in all the documentation I've perused, I've never seen the term "Known Control". I hope you will be patient as you nursemaid me through my studies.
And by the way, none of those are Direct Lie Comparison Questions.
And by the way, none of those are Direct Lie Comparison Questions.
Posted by Ex Member
- May 25, 2017, 09:39 PMQuote from: danmangan on May 03, 2017, 09:05 PM5C. Since being at [treatment center name], have you had any deviant sexual thoughts that you haven't reported? (NO)
Just a random stab from someone who has never been to any kind of PCSOT training:
For those whose minds are very disturbed and inundated with a flood of deviant thoughts, this CQ may be meagerly effective. But for "the honest client who is responding favorably to treatment", it is quite possible that he has been completely forthcoming with any and all deviant thoughts, even keeping a log to be certain. In this scenario, the CQ is weak and at risk of being overpowered by the adjacent RQ.
Posted by Joe McCarthy
- May 25, 2017, 09:35 PMsorry Ark, known control=directed lie. If you're not familiar with what a directed lie is, you are not up to date on your studies. Anyway
Dan, lying to therapist and probation are fair control questions. I have a problem with the time line of the questions obviously, and I TOTALLY HAVE A PROBLEM WITH C5 AS A CONTROL.
Having said that, I also have a problem if the examiner included the controls on his or her report. However it is still unclear as to if the examiner included the controls on the report.
In regard to ATSM, the industry will argue that, "they are a toothless organization, with no enforcement capabilities." the same way they do when I asked the industry to help me with the Unethical Behavior of TAPE, Maria Hubbard, Clayton Wood, Andy Shepherd, Richard Wood and Associates (for running shitty tests and running tests outside standards) etc etc etc.
You don't really think there is any real enforcement in the industry at all do you? At least not when it comes to enforcing actual issues, filed or brought up against member of their establishment. Having said that, the industry is more than happy to look into any complaints about made up and fictional issues, dreamed up to silence a truth telling whistle blower.
Naaaaaaaaa people who break standards and bend the rules are rewarded with "fiefdoms," where they will be entitled to work, rather than..... I don't know........ EARN IT.
You know who I'm talking about.
As far as juveniles go, that is a careful line I avoid more than I avoid infidelity testing.
Dan, lying to therapist and probation are fair control questions. I have a problem with the time line of the questions obviously, and I TOTALLY HAVE A PROBLEM WITH C5 AS A CONTROL.
Having said that, I also have a problem if the examiner included the controls on his or her report. However it is still unclear as to if the examiner included the controls on the report.
In regard to ATSM, the industry will argue that, "they are a toothless organization, with no enforcement capabilities." the same way they do when I asked the industry to help me with the Unethical Behavior of TAPE, Maria Hubbard, Clayton Wood, Andy Shepherd, Richard Wood and Associates (for running shitty tests and running tests outside standards) etc etc etc.
You don't really think there is any real enforcement in the industry at all do you? At least not when it comes to enforcing actual issues, filed or brought up against member of their establishment. Having said that, the industry is more than happy to look into any complaints about made up and fictional issues, dreamed up to silence a truth telling whistle blower.
Naaaaaaaaa people who break standards and bend the rules are rewarded with "fiefdoms," where they will be entitled to work, rather than..... I don't know........ EARN IT.
You know who I'm talking about.
As far as juveniles go, that is a careful line I avoid more than I avoid infidelity testing.
Posted by Dan Mangan
- May 25, 2017, 08:29 PMYou're getting warm, Joe. Maybe.
Again, what is the fatal flaw with this SO maintenance "test" for the honest client who is responding favorably to treatment?
Study the questions set, Joe, and think it through.
BTW, the "test" was administered to a juvenile.
And in case you haven't heard, ATSA recently published guidelines that recommend AGAINST subjecting juveniles to polygraph "testing".
Again, what is the fatal flaw with this SO maintenance "test" for the honest client who is responding favorably to treatment?
Study the questions set, Joe, and think it through.
BTW, the "test" was administered to a juvenile.
And in case you haven't heard, ATSA recently published guidelines that recommend AGAINST subjecting juveniles to polygraph "testing".
Posted by Ex Member
- May 25, 2017, 08:24 PMJoe, what do you mean by "known control"? I am not familiar with this term.