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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by skingalvanics
- Sep 02, 2017, 04:21 PMQuote from: quickfix on Aug 04, 2017, 03:03 PMPeople who pass are not interrogated.
That's correct. That fact applies especially to such luminaries as Ames, Petersson, Pelton, Howard, the Cuban moles in the DIA, and countless others throughout the IC.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Aug 04, 2017, 04:33 PMActually, I think informed people understand that polygraphy is indeed a ruse, to the extent that it necessarily involves the polygraph operator lying to and otherwise deceiving the person being "tested." The late Dr. Drew Richardson enumerated some of the examiner deceptions inherent in polygraphy here:
https://antipolygraph.org/forum/index.php?topic=255.msg1214#msg1214
I can see how you might consider polygraphy not to be a ruse, to the extent that outcomes depend on how the polygraph charts are scored, but in broad terms, polygraph "testing" is an interrogation masquerading as a test.
I agree with you that not everyone gets accused of hiding something. And you're right that those who pass don't (usually) get interrogated. And yet interrogation is a key component of polygraphy, and it is heavily emphasized in polygraph examiner training.
I think Poly Exposer, while engaging in some hyperbole, makes an overall valid point.
https://antipolygraph.org/forum/index.php?topic=255.msg1214#msg1214
I can see how you might consider polygraphy not to be a ruse, to the extent that outcomes depend on how the polygraph charts are scored, but in broad terms, polygraph "testing" is an interrogation masquerading as a test.
I agree with you that not everyone gets accused of hiding something. And you're right that those who pass don't (usually) get interrogated. And yet interrogation is a key component of polygraphy, and it is heavily emphasized in polygraph examiner training.
I think Poly Exposer, while engaging in some hyperbole, makes an overall valid point.
Posted by PolyExposer
- Aug 04, 2017, 04:29 PMQuote from: quickfix on Aug 04, 2017, 03:03 PMIntelligent people know polygraph is not a ruse, and not "everyone" gets accused of hiding something, nor is it is the "main part" of the test. People who pass are not interrogated. People who fail are.
Bullshit. And fbx2 thinks that "spanking the cat" was something in her mind that would cause her to fail. The polygraphers are not mind readers, they only know what you tell them (and anything on record like HR files, debt, or police records). You can have hundreds of things on your mind bothering you. So what. Tell nothing. Say you are just nervous. I passed an FBI poly this way. The polygraphers need admissions to corroborate any spike in a chart, or reaction by the victim...err...examinee.
Posted by John M.
- Aug 04, 2017, 04:27 PMQuote from: George_Maschke on Aug 04, 2017, 01:37 PMPlease elucidate.
The polygraph elucidated
Fear is a strong emotion, one that the polygraph operator interprets falsely as a lie.
The ruse that Poly Exposer is referring to is called deception.
I was said to have had a 'reaction' to the 'have you ever intentionally mishandled classified information' question. I was called back two days later and was told that I 'bombed' it. I freaked out because I thought without a clearance, I would lose my job of 14 years. I told him everything that I and my office had done to transfer classified information since 9/11. A lot of it was, depending on who you asked, potentially dangerous to security. I wrote a four point paper discussing some of the questionable methods and submitted it to the SSO. I later obtained copies of these first two polygraph 'exams' and discovered that they had actually been rated – No Opinion (NO). I also found out later through discovery that the DIA IG looked at my memo and declared that no security violations were found.
I was called back a third, fourth and fifth time. Each time they pressured me more and more to confess. Their 'results' bounced back and forth between Significant Response (SR) and No Opinion (NO). The fear of the question consumed me, I could not control my anxiety – the mere thought of the question made me nervous. But they kept asking and asking, with increasing intensity. It starts with insinuations and quickly turns in to accusations.
Why does it take four to five hours to ask five questions?
If the test is accurate, why do you need to give it five times in three years?
It was after the fifth test, the one in the electric chair-like setting in the DIA Office of Security, that I had the nervous breakdown that has dogged me to this day.
You see, it really is a mind-fuck like Doug Williams says.
Posted by quickfix
- Aug 04, 2017, 03:03 PMIntelligent people know polygraph is not a ruse, and not "everyone" gets accused of hiding something, nor is it is the "main part" of the test. People who pass are not interrogated. People who fail are.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Aug 04, 2017, 01:37 PMQuote from: quickfix on Aug 04, 2017, 01:12 PMAnd rule #2: don't listen to imbeciles like "PolyExposer", who doesn't have a clue what he's talking about. The only thing he's "exposed" is his own ignorance.
Please elucidate.
Posted by quickfix
- Aug 04, 2017, 01:12 PMQuoteAnd rule #2: don't listen to imbeciles like "PolyExposer", who doesn't have a clue what he's talking about. The only thing he's "exposed" is his own ignorance.Quote from: 52564C06340 on Mar 11, 2017, 03:27 PM...He said I was having a problem with the question about a serious undetected crime. I expected this as I was thinking about a long time ago when I was mean to a pet cat. He asked how mean and I told him the truth..I spanked her and would smack her with a rolled up newspaper...
fbx2,
You fell for it. This is the standard polygraph ruse. EVERYONE GETS ACCUSED OF HIDING SOMETHING. It is the main part of the polygraph "test", which is nothing more than an interrogation. By confessing to spanking a cat, as inconsequential as it is, you gave the polygrapher the "admission" he needed to disqualify you. You told him something he NEVER would have found out about. The polygraph is just a fishing expedition for confessions. Next time, keep your mouth shut and do not tell them anything. That is Rule #1 when taking a poly.
Posted by Poly Exposer
- Aug 04, 2017, 12:12 PMQuote from: 52564C06340 on Mar 11, 2017, 03:27 PM...He said I was having a problem with the question about a serious undetected crime. I expected this as I was thinking about a long time ago when I was mean to a pet cat. He asked how mean and I told him the truth..I spanked her and would smack her with a rolled up newspaper...
fbx2,
You fell for it. This is the standard polygraph ruse. EVERYONE GETS ACCUSED OF HIDING SOMETHING. It is the main part of the polygraph "test", which is nothing more than an interrogation. By confessing to spanking a cat, as inconsequential as it is, you gave the polygrapher the "admission" he needed to disqualify you. You told him something he NEVER would have found out about. The polygraph is just a fishing expedition for confessions. Next time, keep your mouth shut and do not tell them anything. That is Rule #1 when taking a poly.
Posted by fbx2
- Aug 04, 2017, 11:47 AMSo I decided to apply again at another agency. If I make it to the polygraph it's likely I'll fail it again since this is on my mind now. This whole thing is so frustrating and I wish there was a good way to clear my mind so I wouldn't be anxious and show a reaction. The other problem is I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same guy administering the "test."
Posted by xenonman
- Mar 24, 2017, 09:05 AMQuote from: the_fighting_irish on Mar 16, 2017, 01:29 AMThere will be more chances, it's not the end of the world. Dust off, reboot, acknowledge and move on to the next plan.
Don't let this add to the ball of stink. There are other agencies and other chances
Just don't put all your hope into one particular opening.
Good luck to you! 8-)
Posted by fbx2
- Mar 17, 2017, 01:33 PMThanks guys. I talked to a friend yesterday. Another agency I applied for had a detective call her for a reference. But of course they do a polygraph too. Seeing as how I'm extra wound up over this I doubt I can pass this one unless they ask the questions differently. Like "have you ever stolen money/raped/assaulted/murdered someone?" *sigh*
Posted by Joe McCarthy
- Mar 16, 2017, 01:29 AMThere will be more chances, it's not the end of the world. Dust off, reboot, acknowledge and move on to the next plan.
Don't let this add to the ball of stink. There are other agencies and other chances
Don't let this add to the ball of stink. There are other agencies and other chances
Posted by Ex Member
- Mar 15, 2017, 05:42 PMQuoteWell I just received a letter stating they have selected other candidates. Pretty disappointing but I kind of expected it. It just wasn't meant to be. Thanks for the kind responses to my question. Take care!Cheer up, only Caesar would be down today.
Posted by fbx2
- Mar 15, 2017, 04:35 PMWell I just received a letter stating they have selected other candidates. Pretty disappointing but I kind of expected it. It just wasn't meant to be. Thanks for the kind responses to my question. Take care!
Posted by xenonman
- Mar 13, 2017, 08:40 AMQuoteThis whole thing is so frustrating.
I absolutely agree with you there. Since you're not applying for a federal position, your BI is likely to be much less intrusive and of less duration. (Obviously local and state agencies just don't have the resources of the FBI or IC agencies).
Good luck and keep us posted!
QuoteI expected this as I was thinking about a long time ago when I was mean to a pet cat
Well, punishing the cat for not becoming housebroken is at least understandable. The real cruelty to animals consists, for example, of putting cats into microwaves to watch them implode or burning them. 8-)