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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by xenonman
- Feb 28, 2017, 09:41 PMQuote from: Bill_Brown on Jun 03, 2011, 09:45 PMYour command of the English language is impressive. I am sure that came from the many degrees you obtained in collage. Very logical and impressive.
Probably one only needs a 2-year associate degree to be a state trooper in VT!
Posted by xenonman
- Jan 17, 2017, 02:54 AMQuote from: 7D787175721C0 on Jan 17, 2017, 02:42 AMQuote from: xenonman on Jan 17, 2017, 02:16 AMUnfortunately, it's the vile scum like "quickfix" who are giving the polygraphs and running the BI's throughout the IC.
Please refrain from personal attacks/name-calling on this forum.
Isn't that quickfix's principal "raison d'etre" ? lol
Posted by Administrator
- Jan 17, 2017, 02:42 AMQuote from: xenonman on Jan 17, 2017, 02:16 AMUnfortunately, it's the vile scum like "quickfix" who are giving the polygraphs and running the BI's throughout the IC.
Please refrain from personal attacks/name-calling on this forum.
Posted by xenonman
- Jan 17, 2017, 02:37 AMQuote from: 4065642A0A0 on Jan 05, 2017, 03:41 PMPlain and simple, it is a pseudoscience. I am permanently banned from employment in Missouri and who knows where else, because I failed a test. It is true, I tried to control my breathing because it spiked. What makes it ridiculous is that it spiked because of a perception I had in my mind, not related to the question. I answered the questions honestly. I was so honest with these people, by the time they had written down everything I had done I looked like a Somalian pirate. I had nothing left to hide. I think my tester knew this too, he tried to work with me. He asked me the set of questions 5 times. The question I failed on, "have you ever committed a serious crime"? I haven't. What makes this deal so much sweater is one of the guys who I can assume passed said something in the waiting room. "I don't really care if I get this job or not, if I don't, I will just go back to working at the jail. I suspect only a punk would say something like that while in the application process of a job, it sounded so juvenile. Future Missouri State Trooper, right there.
When you say "permanently banned from employment in MO", I presume that you're referring to state LEO positions in the "Show Me State"? :-?
Posted by xenonman
- Jan 17, 2017, 02:33 AMJust don't forget: It's not only the polygraph; it's also the BI's and the jerks who conduct them, as well as those idiots in the IC who make decisions based upon them. 
Posted by xenonman
- Jan 17, 2017, 02:26 AMQuote from: quickfix on Jan 11, 2017, 03:11 PM"Failure" is a broad term, and can mean any result other than "NSR/NDI", so allow me to reword your question to "can a truthful person not favorably complete an exam?" to account for the inconclusive as well as the significant response/deception indicated.
The polygraph is not a "lie detector". It is a diagnostic instrument which monitors and records physiological responses to applied stimuli. The are several reasons why someone's exam results may not be favorable. When significant and specific responses are noted at a particular relevant question, it means that the examinee is thinking about something specific every time examinee hears that question. It might be relevant, it might not be relevant, but what for whatever the reaon, it is significant to that examinee. It might be because the examinee is indeed lying to the relevant issue, or has some concern that examinee thinks is relevant but may not be to the examiner. If examinee chooses not to discuss why that question is significant, then it ends there. It is examinee's responsibility to discuss any and all concerns, regardless of relevance. It's called "cooperate and graduate".
With that said, when someone comes to the polygraph room with the intent to engage in countermeasures, does not successfully complete the polygraph, then comes on this site to piss and moan about it, they get NO SYMPATHY from me. They are indeed stupid; stupid for believing that could pull one over on us. I will continue to mock them at every opportunity. I couldn't give a rat's ass how many mouths they have to feed, or whether their dream is shattered. They came into the polygraph room with eyes open and aware of the consequences of getting caught using CMs. If they were lying about the relevant questions, then they "failed" anyway. If they were indeed truthful (primarily in premployment) and tried to "help themselves" pass, they have no one to blame but themselves. Period.
BTW, no one's life is "ruined". There is no shortage of jobs out there that don't require the passing of a polygraph; and quite frankly, anyone who has to resort to cheating on a polygraph (that's what usings CMs is, cheating), displays a lack honesty and integrity that SHOULD disqualify them from the job sought.
Of course, back when I suffered the "polygraph", the liars in the IC (such as "quickfix", no doubt) were insisting that polygraph CM's simply did not exist; that they were merely a myth spread by the KGB to encourage more "moles"!
Posted by xenonman
- Jan 17, 2017, 02:19 AMQuote from: quickfix on Jan 12, 2017, 05:21 PMAre you done with your blather? You don't like what we do? Write your congressman. Or better yet, run for office.
In your case, quickfix, I'd sooner write to info@fsb.gov.ru or info@svr.gov.ru .
Posted by xenonman
- Jan 17, 2017, 02:16 AMQuote from: Wandersmann on Jan 10, 2017, 10:05 PMQuote from: quickfix on Jan 06, 2017, 01:39 PMQuotePlain and simple, it is a pseudoscience. I am permanently banned from employment in Missouri and who knows where else, because I failed a test.The circus always needs someone to walk behind the elephants with the big shovel.QuoteIt is true, I tried to control my breathing because it spiked.And you got caught..you got what you deserved.QuoteI answered the questions honestly.Then why did you feel it necessary to control your breathing? Oh wait, I already know...because you're stupid!
How heartless. Here's a guy who probably has mouths to feed and worked hard to get where he is and Quickfix thinks that ruining a man's life is funny. These miscreants in the polygraph field are despicable.
Quickfix, let me ask you a simple yes or no question that I doubt you are capable of answering......
Is it possible for a person who is telling the truth to fail a polygraph exam?
Unfortunately, it's the vile scum like "quickfix" who are giving the polygraphs and running the BI's throughout the IC.
Posted by xenonman
- Jan 17, 2017, 02:11 AMQuote from: quickfix on Jan 12, 2017, 05:21 PMAre you done with your blather? You don't like what we do? Write your congressman. Or better yet, run for office.
Hey "Quickfix", someone should turn your name in, to: Info@svr.gov.ru !
Posted by xenonman
- Jan 17, 2017, 02:06 AMQuoteIF YOU FAIL THE VERMONT STATE POLICE POLYGRAPH YOU WILL BE TOTALLY DISBARRED FROM EMPLOYMENT EVEN IF YOU ASK TO HAVE IT REVIEWED I WENT UP FOR A POLYGRAPH INTERVIEW AND THE POLYGRAPHER FAILED ME ON CONTROL QUESTIONS AND SAID HE WAS GOING TO MY INTERNAL AFFAIRS UNIT ABOUT IT{I AM A OUT OF STATE POLICE OFFICER] I WENT TO THE DIRECTOR OF THE STATE POLICE AND RECENTLY GOT A RESPONSE FOR THE HEAD OF THE POLYGRAPH UNIT THAT STATES THAT I AM PERMANTELY REJECTED FROM
EMPOLYMENT WITH THEM AND THE POLYGRAPHER DENIES EVER BRINGING UP I.A. WHAT GIVES?? E-MAIL ME AT snowstud98@hotmail.com Erik :
That's pretty sad news to be coming from the supposedly "progressive" state which gave us Bernie Sanders!
Posted by Wandersmann
- Jan 13, 2017, 12:09 AMQuote from: quickfix on Jan 12, 2017, 05:21 PMAre you done with your blather? You don't like what we do? Write your congressman. Or better yet, run for office.
Will do. It's like a prisoner in the gulag complaining to Stalin, but I will continue to do so. I like the idea of running for office. Thanks.
Posted by quickfix
- Jan 12, 2017, 05:21 PMAre you done with your blather? You don't like what we do? Write your congressman. Or better yet, run for office.
Posted by Wandersmann
- Jan 11, 2017, 11:16 PMQuote from: quickfix on Jan 11, 2017, 03:11 PMBTW, no one's life is "ruined". There is no shortage of jobs out there that don't require the passing of a polygraph; and quite frankly, anyone who has to resort to cheating on a polygraph (that's what usings CMs is, cheating), displays a lack honesty and integrity that SHOULD disqualify them from the job sought.
Quickfix, I have to give you credit. Your post was cogent and well written and did not include your normal ad hominem attacks. That being said, I vehemently disagree with everything you said. I think the biggest problem lies with the fact that you and I come from two different planets. Although I am part of the old baby-boomer generation that certainly was far from perfect, you are obviously one of the disrespectful, self-serving, self-righteous, narcissistic millennial generation who throws around words like honesty and integrity without a real clue as to what they mean.
A person's hard earned reputation is not earned on a morning polygraph exam, it is the product of years of proving one's self and suffering by doing the right thing. It was so important that our founding fathers believed in dueling to the death if anyone ever questioned their integrity. To think that a lifetime of proven honesty can be completely erased by one bad polygraph session is insane.
You say that no one is ruined by the polygraph, that is false. You are like a bomber pilot who never sees the carnage he left behind. I know of people suffering physical, emotional, financial and other significant damage because of the polygraph hell they have endured. For your information, people work their asses off and dedicate their lives to be law enforcement officers and intelligence officials. Taking that away from them is no different that taking away a license to practice law from an attorney or taking away a license to practice medicine from a doctor. Like you yourself said, shoveling elephant crap at the circus is about all that is left for someone who dedicated their life to L.E. or intelligence only to have it taken away by your witchcraft.
Here is the ultimate kicker - I know of two people, there are many more, who have been fired for cause, for lying or falsifying records. They were PROVEN GUILTY and ultimately admitted fault. Despite this, they were both able to work for the same agency that fired them as contractors with a Secret and TS clearance despite being fired for cause. Someone who fails a polygraph, no proof of any wrong doing, no due process, is not only fired, but complete access is denied and they can't even come back to the same building as a janitor. Soviet-style banishment for life! How can this be ? There is only one explanation. You polygraph clowns are so determined to commit your profitable fraud that you will go to any lengths and ruin whoever is convenient to justify your miserable profession. I advise people not to use countermeasures or research the polygraph not because I morally object, but because banishing people for countermeasures is the polygraph industry's fraud d'jour. In reality, people who use countermeasures are honorable because they are resisting tyranny and you lack honesty and integrity because you intentionally ruin innocent people for personal gain. You bear false witness. Anyone who realizes that a lifetime of proven integrity can be washed away by an hour on the box is justified to do what they need to do. Using the polygraph to determine truth is no different than throwing dice or flipping a coin to determine truth. If I knew I was honest and had nothing to hide, yet my sacred honor was going to be measured by a roll of the dice I would be justified to roll loaded dice. Your stupid polygraph game has nothing to do with honesty or integrity.
The fact that more people are now being ousted because of alleged, yet unproven, countermeasures than DI or inconclusive shows that people are figuring out your fraud. You have proven liars like DCI Clapper protecting you for now and your billion dollar scam will continue. Clapper and all of the moral cowards who head our executive branch agencies don't have the moral courage to take on your industry and are happy to support you for self-gain. If people of honor and integrity in authority ever figure out what is going down, you will be done. Heads will roll. All of you should either be imprisoned or sued out of existence. You guys are on the rise right now, but the body-count of innocent victims is also rising. You should worry.
Posted by quickfix
- Jan 11, 2017, 03:11 PM"Failure" is a broad term, and can mean any result other than "NSR/NDI", so allow me to reword your question to "can a truthful person not favorably complete an exam?" to account for the inconclusive as well as the significant response/deception indicated.
The polygraph is not a "lie detector". It is a diagnostic instrument which monitors and records physiological responses to applied stimuli. The are several reasons why someone's exam results may not be favorable. When significant and specific responses are noted at a particular relevant question, it means that the examinee is thinking about something specific every time examinee hears that question. It might be relevant, it might not be relevant, but what for whatever the reaon, it is significant to that examinee. It might be because the examinee is indeed lying to the relevant issue, or has some concern that examinee thinks is relevant but may not be to the examiner. If examinee chooses not to discuss why that question is significant, then it ends there. It is examinee's responsibility to discuss any and all concerns, regardless of relevance. It's called "cooperate and graduate".
With that said, when someone comes to the polygraph room with the intent to engage in countermeasures, does not successfully complete the polygraph, then comes on this site to piss and moan about it, they get NO SYMPATHY from me. They are indeed stupid; stupid for believing that could pull one over on us. I will continue to mock them at every opportunity. I couldn't give a rat's ass how many mouths they have to feed, or whether their dream is shattered. They came into the polygraph room with eyes open and aware of the consequences of getting caught using CMs. If they were lying about the relevant questions, then they "failed" anyway. If they were indeed truthful (primarily in premployment) and tried to "help themselves" pass, they have no one to blame but themselves. Period.
BTW, no one's life is "ruined". There is no shortage of jobs out there that don't require the passing of a polygraph; and quite frankly, anyone who has to resort to cheating on a polygraph (that's what usings CMs is, cheating), displays a lack honesty and integrity that SHOULD disqualify them from the job sought.
The polygraph is not a "lie detector". It is a diagnostic instrument which monitors and records physiological responses to applied stimuli. The are several reasons why someone's exam results may not be favorable. When significant and specific responses are noted at a particular relevant question, it means that the examinee is thinking about something specific every time examinee hears that question. It might be relevant, it might not be relevant, but what for whatever the reaon, it is significant to that examinee. It might be because the examinee is indeed lying to the relevant issue, or has some concern that examinee thinks is relevant but may not be to the examiner. If examinee chooses not to discuss why that question is significant, then it ends there. It is examinee's responsibility to discuss any and all concerns, regardless of relevance. It's called "cooperate and graduate".
With that said, when someone comes to the polygraph room with the intent to engage in countermeasures, does not successfully complete the polygraph, then comes on this site to piss and moan about it, they get NO SYMPATHY from me. They are indeed stupid; stupid for believing that could pull one over on us. I will continue to mock them at every opportunity. I couldn't give a rat's ass how many mouths they have to feed, or whether their dream is shattered. They came into the polygraph room with eyes open and aware of the consequences of getting caught using CMs. If they were lying about the relevant questions, then they "failed" anyway. If they were indeed truthful (primarily in premployment) and tried to "help themselves" pass, they have no one to blame but themselves. Period.
BTW, no one's life is "ruined". There is no shortage of jobs out there that don't require the passing of a polygraph; and quite frankly, anyone who has to resort to cheating on a polygraph (that's what usings CMs is, cheating), displays a lack honesty and integrity that SHOULD disqualify them from the job sought.
Posted by Aunty Agony
- Jan 11, 2017, 08:40 AMQuote from: Wandersmann on Jan 10, 2017, 10:05 PMIs it possible for a person who is telling the truth to fail a polygraph exam?This is a clear question. Aunty would also like to know your answer.