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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by Aunty Agony
- Sep 09, 2016, 08:19 AMQuote from: pailryder on Sep 08, 2016, 06:31 PMNo good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers. David Thoreson LykkenAunty thinks it is telling that you have to go all the way to Lykken to find someone who thinks the lie detector is a socially positive force.
Posted by Dan Mangan
- Sep 08, 2016, 08:04 PMPailryder, I worked behind the walls in a state prison polygraphing skinners -- and other SOs -- for over five years.
In response to your question about A-P advice used for nefarious motivations...
My educated guess is that hundreds, if not thousands of evil-doers in the USA alone have benefited from the information freely available on this web site.
Distressing?
Hell, yeah.
Conversely, a similar number of truthful applicants have managed to pass their polygraph "test" because the same information is available to them.
So....what does that tell you about the efficacy of the "test"?
In response to your question about A-P advice used for nefarious motivations...
My educated guess is that hundreds, if not thousands of evil-doers in the USA alone have benefited from the information freely available on this web site.
Distressing?
Hell, yeah.
Conversely, a similar number of truthful applicants have managed to pass their polygraph "test" because the same information is available to them.
So....what does that tell you about the efficacy of the "test"?
Posted by pailryder
- Sep 08, 2016, 06:31 PMWandersmann
I wonder how many have used advice from this site to beat a polygraph and then gone on to commit heinous crimes?
I wonder how many have used advice from this site to beat a polygraph and then gone on to commit heinous crimes?
Posted by Wandersmann
- Sep 08, 2016, 12:04 AMQuote from: AuntyAgony on Sep 06, 2016, 03:27 PMNO -- because parole is not a right.
Allowing you to serve anything less than the period of your court-imposed sentence is a gift from the judiciary, and may be offered subject to any captious conditions whatsoever. A convict can be legally and constitutionally denied parole even for administrative convenience e.g. because there is no room on the prison transport bus.
Thanks for the clarification Aunty. I still think it sucks. Whether it is a privilege or a right, there are rules and standards that enable people to be released from prison. I think it is still unacceptable that a person may meet those standards yet remain incarcerated due to a polygraph. I wonder how many people have been released after passing a polygraph and then gone on to commit heinous crimes.
Posted by Aunty Agony
- Sep 06, 2016, 03:27 PMQuote from: Wandersmann on Sep 05, 2016, 02:12 PMAre parolees and sex offenders incarcerated or denied parole based solely on results of polygraph exam? If so, isn't this unconstitutional and denial of due process?NO -- because parole is not a right.
Allowing you to serve anything less than the period of your court-imposed sentence is a gift from the judiciary, and may be offered subject to any captious conditions whatsoever. A convict can be legally and constitutionally denied parole even for administrative convenience e.g. because there is no room on the prison transport bus.
Posted by Wandersmann
- Sep 05, 2016, 02:12 PMQuote from: xenonman on Sep 04, 2016, 01:20 PMI also find it alarming, as evidenced by many of the posts on AP, that the use of the polygraph on parolees and sex offenders seems to be expanding.
Are parolees and sex offenders incarcerated or denied parole based solely on results of polygraph exam? If so, isn't this unconstitutional and denial of due process?
Posted by Aunty Agony
- Sep 05, 2016, 12:07 AMI just noticed this:
Everyone is entitled to seek legal counsel at any time for any reason, and prosecutors and judges are not allowed to assume that to do so is an indicator of guilt. When an cop or ADA threatens you in this way, he is announcing that he intends to crap all over your right to defend yourself against his accusations.
When somebody tells you "Don't get a lawyer", that's when you know you need to get a lawyer.
Quotethreatened that "if we got a lawyer we would be found guilty of not cooperating with the investigation" and that they would make sure it ended badly for us if we retained a lawyer.If this is true then your civil rights have been violated in a most fundamental way.
Everyone is entitled to seek legal counsel at any time for any reason, and prosecutors and judges are not allowed to assume that to do so is an indicator of guilt. When an cop or ADA threatens you in this way, he is announcing that he intends to crap all over your right to defend yourself against his accusations.
When somebody tells you "Don't get a lawyer", that's when you know you need to get a lawyer.
Posted by Dan Mangan
- Sep 04, 2016, 07:28 PMQuote from: xenonman on Sep 04, 2016, 01:20 PMWhat is also alarming is the fact that, in popular literature and TV programs, the polygraph continues to be mythologized unquestioningly as that final and faithful arbiter of guilt or innocence, and the ultimate step in
determination of guilt or innocence of suspects
Speaking as a full member of the American Polygraph Association, I agree with xenonman.
Perception is reality.
Indeed, those roots about polygraph's alleged near-infallibility run deep.
Check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHcRmRjfFoc
Posted by xenonman
- Sep 04, 2016, 01:20 PMQuote from: George_Maschke on Jul 21, 2016, 01:05 AMThank you for sharing your fiancé's experience. It is a mistake for anyone accused of a crime to submit to any polygraph "test." Law enforcement agencies use the polygraph as a ruse to get suspected criminals to agree to be interrogated without a lawyer. The examinee's "failing" may be part of the interrogation plan.
I would be happy to review the recording of your fiancé's polygraph interrogation along with the polygraph data and provide a written critique that might be useful in a pretrial motion. In a recent New Mexico case, post-polygraph statements made by a defendant were ruled inadmissible owing to questions about their voluntariness:
https://antipolygraph.org/blog/2016/06/26/federal-judge-throws-out-fbi-post-polygraph-confession-over-concerns-about-voluntariness/
Some of the pleadings, facts, and arguments from that case may be of interest to your fiancé's lawyer. They are available here:
https://antipolygraph.org/litigation.shtml#tennison
My contact details are in my signature block below.
What is also alarming is the fact that, in popular literature and TV programs, the polygraph continues to be mythologized unquestioningly as that final and faithful arbiter of guilt or innocence, and the ultimate step in
determination of guilt or innocence of suspects!
I also find it alarming, as evidenced by many of the posts on AP, that the use of the polygraph on parolees and sex offenders seems to be expanding.
Posted by Srslyquestioning
- Jul 21, 2016, 10:07 AMThank you so much we had no idea at the time that this would be a bad idea both agencies used the threat of removing our remaining 3 children from our home and threatened that "if we got a lawyer we would be found guilty of not cooperating with the investigation " and that they would make sure it ended badly for us if we retained a lawyer. To date we have not been provided a copy of the police report and are being denied the right to see that or the Recording of the interrogation. Thankfully we have retained a lawyer so hopefully we can get these things and I would really like a professional opinion on the interrogation.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Jul 21, 2016, 01:05 AMThank you for sharing your fiancé's experience. It is a mistake for anyone accused of a crime to submit to any polygraph "test." Law enforcement agencies use the polygraph as a ruse to get suspected criminals to agree to be interrogated without a lawyer. The examinee's "failing" may be part of the interrogation plan.
I would be happy to review the recording of your fiancé's polygraph interrogation along with the polygraph data and provide a written critique that might be useful in a pretrial motion. In a recent New Mexico case, post-polygraph statements made by a defendant were ruled inadmissible owing to questions about their voluntariness:
https://antipolygraph.org/blog/2016/06/26/federal-judge-throws-out-fbi-post-polygraph-confession-over-concerns-about-voluntariness/
Some of the pleadings, facts, and arguments from that case may be of interest to your fiancé's lawyer. They are available here:
https://antipolygraph.org/litigation.shtml#tennison
My contact details are in my signature block below.
I would be happy to review the recording of your fiancé's polygraph interrogation along with the polygraph data and provide a written critique that might be useful in a pretrial motion. In a recent New Mexico case, post-polygraph statements made by a defendant were ruled inadmissible owing to questions about their voluntariness:
https://antipolygraph.org/blog/2016/06/26/federal-judge-throws-out-fbi-post-polygraph-confession-over-concerns-about-voluntariness/
Some of the pleadings, facts, and arguments from that case may be of interest to your fiancé's lawyer. They are available here:
https://antipolygraph.org/litigation.shtml#tennison
My contact details are in my signature block below.
Posted by Srslyquestioning
- Jul 20, 2016, 11:42 PMThat is supposed to say after a month and a half we finally started getting answers
Posted by Srslyquestioning
- Jul 20, 2016, 11:38 PMOkay so this is not my personal experience but happened to my fiancée and I am seriously questioning the polygraph and the examiner's professionalism. So long story short my fiancée and I have 3 children total by previous relationships and one together mine being oldest at 16 she has been a troubled child for quiet some time getting suspended at least once a year for fighting and has history of being a bully try as a I haven't been able to get her to change the behavior. So she got suspended for drug use/possession and as a result we took her phone and permit and grounded her for 3 months she was angry and kept insisting that she didn't do anything wrong and begged to not be punished and us allow her to go live with a younger couple until everything blew over of course the answer was no; I also added extra chores around the house well the next day after a long day of chores she claimed to have a headache and I went to shower while I was in there she snuck her phone and called the wife of the younger couple to pick her up and she ran away the bad part is she didn't just run away she went to the sheriff department and made allegations against my fiancée (now keep in mind we have been friends for 24 years so this man is a person I know very well). As a result of the allegations he was cut off from his kids and I and made to leave the home. After aon that nd a half we finally started getting answers to questions about the case and he was asked to come in and take a polygraph so he agreed before he was even hooked up to the machine the control questions where asked to get a baseline they proceed to ask him a series of questions in different orders three times the sbi agent left the room and came back informing him he failed or spiked on some of the questions regarding the 16 year old so he starts to interrogate my fiancée asking him questions such as did he like blow jobs, did he have sex with our goats and pigs bc we own a small farm and repeatedly told him in these exact words he was a f**K up and that he f****d up, that the 16 year old was beautiful and if it was him he'd do her and did blame my fiancée if he did, this went on for four hours finally my fiancée had had enough and told him that it was time for his visitation with the children bc this has beenough going on for 3 months and he has had a total of 4 one hour visits with the children over the course of this investigation. IIA very disappointed in the sbi agent and it is my understanding that they really are not supposed to ask questions that don't pertain to the allegations. Needless to say eventually he was charged and we both have been told it's bc of the polygraph results bc without them they had no probable cause to arrest and charge him. They used what's called a totality of circumstances to get where they wanted to be in our case. And to top things off the Sheriff pulled the interview tapes from that day and said there are places where there are 4 second gaps through out the taped polygraph which seems suspicious even to him bc it's like the tape had been turned off then back on to get what they wanted. This has caused our family to distrust the sheriff's department and it's not just the adults it is the children as well I am just very distrustful and hurt that a sheriff's department would allow this king treatment to be imposed on the public! Also the polygraph is how dss has came to the conclusion to find us guilty as well even though we have not gone to court yet they also use terror tactics by threatening to take your children away if you don't do as they say this type of terrorism needs to be stopped they essentially wage war on innocent people.