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Posted by xenonman
- Oct 01, 2016, 02:03 AMQuote from: xenonman on Sep 10, 2016, 06:13 AMA most predictable display of federal polygraph operator hubris.
More accurately, very probably "intelligence community" hubris.
Posted by xenonman
- Oct 01, 2016, 01:56 AMQuote from: Hello1977 on Sep 27, 2016, 11:44 PMHello again everyone. I will be starting a new thread titled "A success story", to hopefully allow for more people to read my hypothetical experience. Long story short, I passed, hypothetically. The new thread will have a detailed account of my hypothetical experience.
What is meant by "hypothetical" here? :-?
Posted by Hello1977
- Sep 28, 2016, 12:56 AMIt's also worth noting that all of my personal information included in my first post, including my education, degrees earned, former employment, everything, was completely fabricated and not accurate. I put fake personal information so as to not be easily identified.
Posted by Hello1977
- Sep 27, 2016, 11:44 PMHello again everyone. I will be starting a new thread titled "A success story", to hopefully allow for more people to read my hypothetical experience. Long story short, I passed, hypothetically. The new thread will have a detailed account of my hypothetical experience.
Posted by xenonman
- Sep 10, 2016, 06:19 AMQuote from: Hello1977 on Sep 03, 2016, 01:07 AMStill waiting on that coffee quickfix.
Just hope that Mr. QF doesn't spike your coffee with the "truth serum"!
Posted by xenonman
- Sep 10, 2016, 06:16 AMQuoteIf you really want a job at one of those three-letter-organizations, my advice is not to come in with the expectation of "I have to pass now, or my life is over." I eventually ended up passing after at least four tries, and I found the process incredibly abusive, but I'm stubborn and figured I'd go as long as they kept inviting me (not sure that's a healthy personality attribute to have).
The stars aligned eventually, I guess. The real question is whether you really want to work long term for an organization that will continue to put you through this process once every five years?
That's very impressive that you were given four such opportunities.
For most applicants, it's just one shot, and then they're out the door until at least their 120th birthday.
Posted by xenonman
- Sep 10, 2016, 06:13 AMQuote from: danmangan on Sep 01, 2016, 09:19 PMROTFLMAO!
A most predictable display of federal polygraph operator hubris.
Quickifix, while you're at it, please make mine with cream and two sugars.
What a schmuck... Quickfix took the bait like a novice.
Classic.
From the hostile tone and similar vocabulary of his replies, I seriously believe that quickfix may have been the one responsible from my removal from the "federal soup" forum.
Posted by disillusioned
- Sep 09, 2016, 12:04 PMIf you really want a job at one of those three-letter-organizations, my advice is not to come in with the expectation of "I have to pass now, or my life is over." I eventually ended up passing after at least four tries, and I found the process incredibly abusive, but I'm stubborn and figured I'd go as long as they kept inviting me (not sure that's a healthy personality attribute to have).
The stars aligned eventually, I guess. The real question is whether you really want to work long term for an organization that will continue to put you through this process once every five years?
The stars aligned eventually, I guess. The real question is whether you really want to work long term for an organization that will continue to put you through this process once every five years?
Posted by Hello1977
- Sep 03, 2016, 01:07 AMGeorge, I appreciate your detailed responses a great deal, thank you. I feel confident but still nervous because I have never taken one before and because I need this job badly.
Dan, I appreciate your candid opinion and can respect the positions you take. If only more polygraph examiners were like yourself.
Also Dan, I do not intend to act "alpha" at my polygraph examination. That comment was a joke about how if I had a colleague like quickfix, I would likely make them my bitch within the first couple of days. During my examination I intent to be friendly, humble, let the examiner feel like they are in control and also act like i believe polygraphs are 100% accurate.
I have my polygraph in the next 7-14 days and then will post my experience 3-7 days after the test, so as to not be easily identified.
I welcome any addition comments or opinions on my strategy and situation. Thank you everyone, and wish me luck!
Still waiting on that coffee quickfix.
Dan, I appreciate your candid opinion and can respect the positions you take. If only more polygraph examiners were like yourself.
Also Dan, I do not intend to act "alpha" at my polygraph examination. That comment was a joke about how if I had a colleague like quickfix, I would likely make them my bitch within the first couple of days. During my examination I intent to be friendly, humble, let the examiner feel like they are in control and also act like i believe polygraphs are 100% accurate.
I have my polygraph in the next 7-14 days and then will post my experience 3-7 days after the test, so as to not be easily identified.
I welcome any addition comments or opinions on my strategy and situation. Thank you everyone, and wish me luck!
Still waiting on that coffee quickfix.
Posted by Dan Mangan
- Sep 02, 2016, 08:56 AMQuote from: Hello1977 on Sep 01, 2016, 10:48 PMDan, would you care to weigh in on my strategy and perhaps answer the follow up questions I had...
Hello1977, I do not recommend the use of countermeasures, nor do I provide advice on their implementation.
As a polygraph examiner and full member of the American Polygraph Association, I hold a view that is largely deemed by the APA to be naked heresy: I agree with the findings of the National Academy of Sciences as described in their exhaustive report, "The Polygraph and Lie Detection." That makes me an apostate within the polygraph "profession."
With regard to your situation, I predict that most of the in-test countermeasure attempts you employ -- as well as your "alpha" play-acting -- will backfire.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Sep 02, 2016, 04:02 AMQuote from: Hello1977 on Aug 31, 2016, 09:47 PMGeorge, thank you very much for your response. I have a few lingering questions, though.
I read the link you provided as well as the entire lie behind the lie detector. Forgive my ignorance but I don't seem to understand what change from baseline they measure on your heart rate, if not increased bpm. What else besides BPM and blood pressure does the machine catalog?
The cardio channel reflects changes in blood pressure and heart rate. The baseline (that is, the vertical position of the cardio waveform on the chart) rises or falls with changes in blood pressure.
QuoteWhat physiological changes are you trying to accomplish during the control questions, in regards to heart beat? What does doing mental arithmetic do to your circulatory system responses?
The cardio channel (unlike the respiratory channel) cannot be directly manipulated. However, mental such as rapidly performing mental arithmetic or physical countermeasures such as tongue-biting may result in timely changes in blood pressure and heart rate.
QuoteSorry if these are stupid questions, I apologize. I guess the way those polygraph examiner books are written is geared more towards dumbass tarrot card readers with a reading level of a 8th grader. Is my strategy of when I get a control question, exhale and do not inhale for 3-4 seconds, then answer yes or no, a solid strategy? Anything you would add or tweak in regards to my breathing countermeasure plan?
Yes. It's a solid strategy. I believe that DIA polygraph chief Brett A. Stern in fact specifically mentioned this in a presentation a few years back.
QuoteSecondly, I now understand you must give the "expected" answer on control questions. But, I'm confused, so the examiner is cool with you lying on control questions but not relevant?
Correct.
QuoteSeems pretty hypocritical and defeats the "purpose" of the test; i.e. finding out if the examinee is truthful and will answer the testers questions honestly. If someone is lying on the control questions regarding if you have ever stolen something before, why would the examiner believe anything you say from that point on? I guess it doesn't matter, and I understand I must play the game, but it just seems pretty counter-intuitive. Forgive my rambling.
Remember that polygraphy is the brainchild of interrogators, not scientists. The main polygraph method in use today was devised by a crackpot who was persuaded that plants can read human minds.
Posted by Wandersmann
- Sep 02, 2016, 12:11 AMQuote from: Hello1977 on Sep 01, 2016, 10:48 PMAt the least, it's nice to see a polygraph examiner who does not have the personality of a nazi extermination camp guard.
Dear Hello1977 - You beat me too it ! I was going to post that it was too bad that Quickfix wasn't born in Germany in the 1920's - He would have made an excellent concentration camp guard ! Let's hope that he and all other federal polygraph operators share the same fate as the Nazi concentration camp guards. (I am saying being put on trial, not advocating violence)
::)Actually they are more of the ilk of the concentration camp commandants. More innocent blood on their hands.
Posted by Hello1977
- Sep 01, 2016, 10:48 PMQuote from: danmangan on Sep 01, 2016, 09:19 PMROTFLMAO!
A most predictable display of federal polygraph operator hubris.
Quickifix, while you're at it, please make mine with cream and two sugars.
What a schmuck... Quickfix took the bait like a novice.
Classic.
hahaha good times, good times.
Dan, would you care to weigh in on my strategy and perhaps answer the follow up questions I had in regards to George's response? I understand you are a polygraph examiner but I am going to be 100% truthful on my polygraph and am simply afraid of a false positive. I do not think it would be unethical or unprofessional in anyway to assist someone in not failing for a false positive.
At the least, it's nice to see a polygraph examiner who does not have the personality of a nazi extermination camp guard.
As a polygraph examiner, do you recognize and admit to the severe shortcomings of the polygraph? Do you agree that many qualified applicants have been rejected from jobs because of false positives? Not trying to attack you, just would love to see an examiner acknowledge the reality of the situation.
Posted by Dan Mangan
- Sep 01, 2016, 09:19 PMROTFLMAO!
A most predictable display of federal polygraph operator hubris.
Quickifix, while you're at it, please make mine with cream and two sugars.
What a schmuck... Quickfix took the bait like a novice.
Classic.
A most predictable display of federal polygraph operator hubris.
Quickifix, while you're at it, please make mine with cream and two sugars.
What a schmuck... Quickfix took the bait like a novice.
Classic.
Posted by Hello1977
- Sep 01, 2016, 08:52 PMQuote from: quickfix on Sep 01, 2016, 02:27 PMQuote from: Hello1977 on Sep 01, 2016, 11:54 AMAlthough, in person I bet he is a beta that I would mentally dominate and by the 2nd day he would be bringing me my coffee.
Don't worry, asshole, when you fail your first polygraph, you won't be invited back for a second one, so you better ask for that coffee on day one.
hahahaha TRIGGERED!
laughing my ass off. thanks for that quickfix. Where's my coffee?