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Posted by tw
- Oct 02, 2015, 09:43 AMI have to say I am quite thankful for everyone who has chimed in on this topic. I needed to make some sense of what happened with my experience and I needed to talk about it with someone who might believe me without judgement (at least openly).
Thanks Ark for all of your input, Gary Davis for reading the charts and sending a report, and Dan Mangan for the offer to help.
Thanks Ark for all of your input, Gary Davis for reading the charts and sending a report, and Dan Mangan for the offer to help.
Posted by Ex Member
- Oct 01, 2015, 02:34 PMThere are two facets to dissect this issue.
1. Is the polygrapher competent enough to properly follow the technique proffered by the industry? In this case, fellow polygraphers exhibit angst against shoddy work which reflects poorly on them.
2. Or, as I demonstrate, that even if the "technique" is carried out properly, can it distinguish truth tellers from liars?
I hope to get others to chime in.
1. Is the polygrapher competent enough to properly follow the technique proffered by the industry? In this case, fellow polygraphers exhibit angst against shoddy work which reflects poorly on them.
2. Or, as I demonstrate, that even if the "technique" is carried out properly, can it distinguish truth tellers from liars?
I hope to get others to chime in.
Posted by Doug Williams
- Oct 01, 2015, 02:25 PMK
Either that or the tea leaves and/or the goat entrails were not proper placed so as to allow an accurate viewing and diagnosis of the results.
Can we PLEASE stop trying to use science to explain this ridiculous procedure which is nothing more than me last vestige of witchcraft - polygraph testing.
Quote from: Arkhangelsk on Oct 01, 2015, 02:15 PMQuote from: woodlair on Oct 01, 2015, 11:30 AMThe eda channel in your chart looks quite interesting. The one on the charts given to me looks broken.Your EDA tracing was not broken, it's just that there was no diagnostic data. This could have been due to a sensor not being properly fitted, or your skin could have had something which impeded current flow, or, there was simply minimum sympathetic arousal to those nerves in your fingertips.
I hear from you that the readings given to me show stress. Since I know I was truthful, it tells me I was not properly introduced the directed lie control questions.
If the last option is the case, we could couple it with your lack of responses to the Directed Lie Comparison questions to support the notion that DLC's are not perceived as a real threat, nor a stimuli which result in a significant increase in cognitive load.
Either that or the tea leaves and/or the goat entrails were not proper placed so as to allow an accurate viewing and diagnosis of the results.
Can we PLEASE stop trying to use science to explain this ridiculous procedure which is nothing more than me last vestige of witchcraft - polygraph testing.
Posted by Ex Member
- Oct 01, 2015, 02:15 PMQuote from: woodlair on Oct 01, 2015, 11:30 AMThe eda channel in your chart looks quite interesting. The one on the charts given to me looks broken.Your EDA tracing is not broken; it's just that it contains no diagnostic data. This could have been due to a sensor not being properly fitted, or your skin could have had something which impeded current flow, or, there was simply minimum sympathetic arousal to those nerves in your fingertips.
I hear from you that the readings given to me show stress. Since I know I was truthful, it tells me I was not properly introduced the directed lie control questions.
If the last option is the case, we could couple it with your lack of responses to the Directed Lie Comparison questions to support the notion that DLC's are not perceived as a real threat, nor stimuli which result in a significant increase in cognitive load.
Posted by Wandersmann
- Oct 01, 2015, 12:57 PMQuote from: woodlair on Oct 01, 2015, 11:30 AMOn the other, I want to just forget it ever happened. My wife wont let that happen though.
Rather than go through all of this misery, why not introduce your wife to Anti-Polygraph.org ? Show her that the polygraph is a joke and not worth taking serious. How more obvious can it be ? You have guys like Dr. Drew Richardson and other PhD's that have testified that it is a fraud. The people who support the polygraph are all scaming a living with it. Like Dr. Richardson said in his testimony before Congress, having the polygraph community researching their product is like having the tobacco industry conducting cancer research.
Posted by tw
- Oct 01, 2015, 11:30 AMThanks Ark. The eda channel in your chart looks quite interesting. The one on the charts given to me looks broken.
I hear from you that the readings given to me show stress. Since I know I was truthful, it tells me I was not properly introduced the directed lie control questions. That, and the one question was trash. Plus, there was no exploration done. And he ran the minimum number of runs. Basically, it appears the examiner just did the bare minimum to get me in and out the door.
Based on what I have read in the APA bylaws, I may have a case for a grievance, but I am not sure it is worth it. On one hand I want to bring awareness to others in my situation that this is not a good place to go. On the other, I want to just forget it ever happened. My wife wont let that happen though.
The examiner did inform me he would not release the video unless ordered by the court. Thank you everyone for your time on this topic. It has been very helpful.
I hear from you that the readings given to me show stress. Since I know I was truthful, it tells me I was not properly introduced the directed lie control questions. That, and the one question was trash. Plus, there was no exploration done. And he ran the minimum number of runs. Basically, it appears the examiner just did the bare minimum to get me in and out the door.
Based on what I have read in the APA bylaws, I may have a case for a grievance, but I am not sure it is worth it. On one hand I want to bring awareness to others in my situation that this is not a good place to go. On the other, I want to just forget it ever happened. My wife wont let that happen though.
The examiner did inform me he would not release the video unless ordered by the court. Thank you everyone for your time on this topic. It has been very helpful.
Posted by Ex Member
- Sep 30, 2015, 09:46 PMQuote from: Arkhangelsk on Sep 29, 2015, 06:56 PMtw, I wouldn't waste too much brain power on this unless you are thinking of going to polygraph school.
tw, in retrospect, I think I was too dismissive of your honest inquiry. I apologize. I will show you what a good spot looks like. The attachment is from my own research. The examinee had much at stake and was properly stimulated.
Please zoom in a bit and take note of the following:
1. The Comparison Questions I formulated are effective. You can see the reactions; note the complex EDA reaction in C3 and the robust cardio reaction in C5.
2. However, comparing these reactions to those of the Relevant Questions, it is clear that this examinee's PS (salience) was oriented to the RQ's; robust complex cardio arousal in R4 & R6 along with relief is very clear. The EDA reactions speak for themselves. I did not calculate RLL in the Pneumo channels, but some suppression is noticeable in the RQ's.
Lacking ground truth, does this mean the subject is lying? Alas! Therein lies the conundrum.
Hope this helps your insight.
Posted by Aunty Agony
- Sep 29, 2015, 10:28 PMQuote from: woodlair on Sep 28, 2015, 04:49 PM...I would rather be waterboarded...Indeed. If a loving relationship can be saved by a dispositive unmonitored hostile interrogation, why go halfway with a poly?
I see the opportunity for a whole new industry here. I'm'a hang out a shingle offering to torture any troubled couple until one of them admits to cheating.
For an additional fee I will keep it up until they both admit it.
Posted by Ex Member
- Sep 29, 2015, 06:56 PMtw, I wouldn't waste too much brain power on this unless you are thinking of going to polygraph school.
Posted by gary davis
- Sep 29, 2015, 10:56 AMIt really doesn't matter what the call was if the question about sexually acting out is accurate.. the question is inappropriate. current research does not support vertical scoring ..rather it supports total values.
If you want a written report of the examination feel free to contact me at 866 535 8969..
If you want a written report of the examination feel free to contact me at 866 535 8969..
Posted by tw
- Sep 29, 2015, 10:31 AMDo you have any good links that teach me how to read the charts? I have looked at other charts online that show deception and there is a large change. I dont see those on my chart. so I just wonder what is considered significant reactions. I guess I am looking for a manual of sorts...
Posted by tw
- Sep 28, 2015, 04:49 PMThank you for the recommendation Ark, but I will not go back to him. I would rather be waterboarded. I told my wife I would have a follow up polygraph with a different examiner just to give her the assurance I am still not sleeping with anyone but her. However, I am not going to do it in the future and if our marriage is contingent on future polygraphs we can call it now and save the money.
I think she thinks I will relent in the future. I am not seeing it though. You have been quite helpful. Thank you.
I think she thinks I will relent in the future. I am not seeing it though. You have been quite helpful. Thank you.
Posted by Ex Member
- Sep 28, 2015, 04:37 PMYes, that is question 42R and as I predicted, it was the strongest of the reactions and indicates the struggle you had with that question.
You may ask him if he will do a breakdown exam for you, asking for a specific issue: "Did you insert your penis into the vagina of another woman?" - straight forward, single issue ZCT.
If he wants more money tell him that according to the APA protocol on "successive hurdles", that it should be included in the original price.
You may ask him if he will do a breakdown exam for you, asking for a specific issue: "Did you insert your penis into the vagina of another woman?" - straight forward, single issue ZCT.
If he wants more money tell him that according to the APA protocol on "successive hurdles", that it should be included in the original price.
Posted by tw
- Sep 28, 2015, 04:29 PMThanks Ark. I have to admit, I thought about that as well when he asked that question, but I figured the mystery machine would reflect the truth.
The electrodes were Velcro on ring and index finger. pretty standard from what I have heard / read.
Yes, there was a reaction to the relevant questions. My marriage was at risk. Plus, he said I had been deceptive during a previous polygraph when I was not. So I already did not trust the guy. From what I can tell, it looks like there is almost no response to the control questions.
I appreciate you looking at it and responding. I just have to figure out how to move forward in my marriage from here. If that is even possible.
The electrodes were Velcro on ring and index finger. pretty standard from what I have heard / read.
Yes, there was a reaction to the relevant questions. My marriage was at risk. Plus, he said I had been deceptive during a previous polygraph when I was not. So I already did not trust the guy. From what I can tell, it looks like there is almost no response to the control questions.
I appreciate you looking at it and responding. I just have to figure out how to move forward in my marriage from here. If that is even possible.
Posted by Ex Member
- Sep 28, 2015, 04:13 PMtw,
I have to admit, I'm bit shocked that he provided the charts to you, but at the same time I respect him for doing so.
The charts are interesting. In my previous comments, I mentioned that he may have been poised to do some follow up testing before you left.
My observations:
1. You are showing some mild reactions to the Relevant Questions.
2. I'm concerned about that lack of diagnostic data in the EDA channel. Did he use the "stick on" electrodes on your palm? A gain of 1 is pretty low.
3. "Have you acted out sexually in anyway?" in my opinion is more like a Comparison Question. Just giving your morning erection a squeeze could be a "yes" to this question.
He should not have said to you that you "failed" some questions; a more appropriate response would have been "it appears that some of the questions are bothering you, let's see if we can work through it."
Even in light of this, I hold this examiner in somewhat high esteem for being forthcoming with the charts, and I don't see anything really out of line here.
I have to admit, I'm bit shocked that he provided the charts to you, but at the same time I respect him for doing so.
The charts are interesting. In my previous comments, I mentioned that he may have been poised to do some follow up testing before you left.
My observations:
1. You are showing some mild reactions to the Relevant Questions.
2. I'm concerned about that lack of diagnostic data in the EDA channel. Did he use the "stick on" electrodes on your palm? A gain of 1 is pretty low.
3. "Have you acted out sexually in anyway?" in my opinion is more like a Comparison Question. Just giving your morning erection a squeeze could be a "yes" to this question.
He should not have said to you that you "failed" some questions; a more appropriate response would have been "it appears that some of the questions are bothering you, let's see if we can work through it."
Even in light of this, I hold this examiner in somewhat high esteem for being forthcoming with the charts, and I don't see anything really out of line here.