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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by poly fed
- Sep 23, 2014, 08:46 AMI'm a cleared U.S. federal employee who passed the polygraph using countermeasures. And I lied. When they asked if I was hiding something or if I committed a crime that I wasn't busted for, I told them "no". A clear lie. They are stupid to think I was going to sit there and tell them my dirty laundry, as if I was supposed to be scared of them or something. lol. Passed with flying colors.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Sep 23, 2014, 07:44 AMNo doubt, there are many federal employees whose jobs require polygraph screening who know that it's junk science. And there are no doubt foreign spies working for the U.S. Government right now who breezed through their polygraphs using simple, effective, and undetectable countermeasures.
Posted by 1st4th5thand6th
- Sep 23, 2014, 07:35 AMIn my original post I ask: Legal question number 1? does signing a waiver form (which lets them turn on the polygraph) grant a waiver to the govt polygrapher of his or her oath of office ( To uphold and defend the constitution?) ..... do you (George) or Mr. Williams have an opinion on this?
Posted by 1st4th5thand6th
- Sep 23, 2014, 07:29 AMRight, so honest people who are upfront and fully disclose they are "educated" are rejected outright , but those who "conceal" this knowledge are passed. So... lying is not allowed but concealing is....uh... ok 
I guess that box can spot liars, and people who use CM's but not..."concealers" huh?. HAHAHAH (Sorry I'm giggling while I write this!).....
This is unreal!!! I wonder if it's like a silent inside joke to those with the poly clearances..... the wink between members of the cleared fraternity...
"Hey Harvey....passed again! wink Good job Bob! <wink>.... a comedian could have a field day with this!!!!
I guess that box can spot liars, and people who use CM's but not..."concealers" huh?. HAHAHAH (Sorry I'm giggling while I write this!).....
This is unreal!!! I wonder if it's like a silent inside joke to those with the poly clearances..... the wink between members of the cleared fraternity...
"Hey Harvey....passed again! wink Good job Bob! <wink>.... a comedian could have a field day with this!!!!
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Sep 23, 2014, 07:04 AMWhat I expect is happening is that savvy applicants and employees who understand that polygraphy is a sham are concealing their knowledge from their polygraphers to avoid retaliation. As the saying goes, self-preservation is the first law of nature.
Posted by 1st4th5thand6th
- Sep 23, 2014, 06:50 AMThanks for clarifying this George. So a candidate who has a clean background, is well educated, including basic factual knowledge about the polygraph along with plain common sense that it doesn't work, has never worked and never will work.... He/She will be labeled dishonest, liar, countermeasures etc.... again by people who use a box that can't determine lies, dishonesty or countermeasures or any of that regardless.....This is almost comical! ....
Further, to me, this means our governments top jobs are awarded to only those people who aren't smart enough to understand polygraph basics or are gullible enough to believe otherwise...at best, Ignorance and gullibility are primary selection criteria! ...or at worst these people just pretend to go along with it...thereby actually deceiving the polygrapher.
And taxpayers keep paying for this!! HAHAHAHAHAH
Further, to me, this means our governments top jobs are awarded to only those people who aren't smart enough to understand polygraph basics or are gullible enough to believe otherwise...at best, Ignorance and gullibility are primary selection criteria! ...or at worst these people just pretend to go along with it...thereby actually deceiving the polygrapher.
And taxpayers keep paying for this!! HAHAHAHAHAH
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Sep 23, 2014, 01:23 AM1st4th5thand6th,
Discrimination against polygraph examinees who understand that the whole process is a con and a farce is not really "silent." It's standard operating procedure.
Polygraph operators routinely ask examinees what they know about polygraphy during the pre-test phase. They may also query examinees regarding what online research they've done.
If an examinee volunteers that she is familiar with polygraph procedure and understands its lack of scientific underpinnings, or has read material from AntiPolygraph.org or Polygraph.com, she is very likely going to be accused of deception and/or countermeasure use.
Discrimination against polygraph examinees who understand that the whole process is a con and a farce is not really "silent." It's standard operating procedure.
Polygraph operators routinely ask examinees what they know about polygraphy during the pre-test phase. They may also query examinees regarding what online research they've done.
If an examinee volunteers that she is familiar with polygraph procedure and understands its lack of scientific underpinnings, or has read material from AntiPolygraph.org or Polygraph.com, she is very likely going to be accused of deception and/or countermeasure use.
Posted by 1st4th5thand6th
- Sep 22, 2014, 10:26 PMMr. Williams, thank you for your reply. I've read your book...and I must say I admire your courage, your conviction and your fortitude. In my mind the only crime you've committed is articulating the blatantly obvious to morons who don't want to hear it!... I was wondering if you could help me understand something... In my previous post I mentioned that I believe there is a silent discrimination against polygraph candidates who understand that the whole process is a con and a farce... Do I have this right? or am I just imagining this? I would think there would have to be.... because if you understand this, what good is hooking you up to the machine? Also if this is true...doesn't it really imply that a selection criteria for these polygraph jobs is "ignorance" and "gullibility"
Mr. Mashke, if your available, I would like your opinion as well....
Mr. Mashke, if your available, I would like your opinion as well....Posted by Doug Williams
- Sep 14, 2014, 09:18 AMQuote from: 1st4th5thand6th on Sep 13, 2014, 08:18 PMHaving lived through the polygraph experience (> 1) I would like to say that everything and I mean everything Mr. Mashke / Mr. Williams / Professor Lykken have said in their books are 1000% accurate.
..In fact... I'm of the opinion, that these guys are being quite kind in their assessments and presenting it to the public....politely....
I consider myself a pretty open minded person. I went in there with an honest heart and an open mind. Yes, I had the heard horror stories (I had skimmed a couple of books) and I was somewhat in disbelief. I guess I had a naive "hope" that it wasn't true and that my experience would be "good"....
WOW was I FLOORED!!
I'm humiliated and totally ashamed to admit this... WHAT AN IDIOT I WAS!
Perhaps the sickest part of all of this...and I don't recall the books really emphasizing this point.. ... All of the people who administer a polygraph (for the govt) have taken an oath of office to uphold and defend the constitution of the United States!...
The people who oversee these letter agencies have also taken this oath as have our congressman, senators, judiciary branch and president.
How in the name of god could ANYONE swear an oath to the constitution in one breath and then administer these tests in another! Totally beyond my comprehension!!.. SICKENING absolutely sickening...
I am further of the opinion having had time to digest the whole fiasco, that this process has two silent criteria. 1) the person taking it has no clue what his constitutional rights are and will therefore not know how or why/when to invoke them....or if they are even being violated... but if you do know! MAN WHAT A SHOCK! and 2) if the person is not gullible and understands the whole thing is an "act" they have no chance at passing. meaning if you're and educated American, i.e one who understands amendments 1,4,5,6 and understands that the polygraph doesn't work... the person would have to automatically be disqualified! How could they possibly qualify you... If they can't con you..you;re out!! Thank god for anti-discrimination laws huh!
If this is true then is the government really hiring it's best or it's brightest? or just the ones that don't understand their constitutional rights and believe the bluff of the polygraph?
Further, I'm also of the opinion, our country has a bigger problem than just this polygraph BS... our judicial system is obviously picking and choosing which laws to enforce and clearly who they apply to...
(Didn't the constitution use to be the supreme law of the land? It's still in effect in America isn't it? ) it is?
Legal question number 1? does signing a waiver form (which lets them turn on the polygraph) grant a waiver to the govt polygrapher of his or her oath of office ( To uphold and defend the constitution?)
Legal question number 2... Does swearing an oath to uphold and defend the constitution grant the swearer the option to exempt themselves from it? Does it allow them to deny/violate the constitutional rights of U.S Citizens? Guess that's for a judge to decide huh? But obviously they don't do that anymore ..... !!!
Everywhere you go..it gets sicker and sicker....
I have heard variations on this story thousands of times over the past 35 years. I'm sorry to hear yours, but perhaps you can take some comfort in the fact that this is what drives me to continue the fight against those who abuse people with this insidious Orwellian instrument of torture incorrectly referred to as a "lie detector".
Posted by 1st4th5thand6th
- Sep 13, 2014, 08:18 PMHaving lived through the polygraph experience (> 1) I would like to say that everything and I mean everything Mr. Mashke / Mr. Williams / Professor Lykken have said in their books are 1000% accurate.
..In fact... I'm of the opinion, that these guys are being quite kind in their assessments and presenting it to the public....politely....
I consider myself a pretty open minded person. I went in there with an honest heart and an open mind. Yes, I had the heard horror stories (I had skimmed a couple of books) and I was somewhat in disbelief. I guess I had a naive "hope" that it wasn't true and that my experience would be "good"....
WOW was I FLOORED!!
I'm humiliated and totally ashamed to admit this... WHAT AN IDIOT I WAS!
Perhaps the sickest part of all of this...and I don't recall the books really emphasizing this point.. ... All of the people who administer a polygraph (for the govt) have taken an oath of office to uphold and defend the constitution of the United States!...
The people who oversee these letter agencies have also taken this oath as have our congressman, senators, judiciary branch and president.
How in the name of god could ANYONE swear an oath to the constitution in one breath and then administer these tests in another! Totally beyond my comprehension!!.. SICKENING absolutely sickening...
I am further of the opinion having had time to digest the whole fiasco, that this process has two silent criteria. 1) the person taking it has no clue what his constitutional rights are and will therefore not know how or why/when to invoke them....or if they are even being violated... but if you do know! MAN WHAT A SHOCK! and 2) if the person is not gullible and understands the whole thing is an "act" they have no chance at passing. meaning if you're and educated American, i.e one who understands amendments 1,4,5,6 and understands that the polygraph doesn't work... the person would have to automatically be disqualified! How could they possibly qualify you... If they can't con you..you;re out!! Thank god for anti-discrimination laws huh!
If this is true then is the government really hiring it's best or it's brightest? or just the ones that don't understand their constitutional rights and believe the bluff of the polygraph?
Further, I'm also of the opinion, our country has a bigger problem than just this polygraph BS... our judicial system is obviously picking and choosing which laws to enforce and clearly who they apply to...
(Didn't the constitution use to be the supreme law of the land? It's still in effect in America isn't it? ) it is?
Legal question number 1? does signing a waiver form (which lets them turn on the polygraph) grant a waiver to the govt polygrapher of his or her oath of office ( To uphold and defend the constitution?)
Legal question number 2... Does swearing an oath to uphold and defend the constitution grant the swearer the option to exempt themselves from it? Does it allow them to deny/violate the constitutional rights of U.S Citizens? Guess that's for a judge to decide huh? But obviously they don't do that anymore ..... !!!
Everywhere you go..it gets sicker and sicker....
..In fact... I'm of the opinion, that these guys are being quite kind in their assessments and presenting it to the public....politely....
I consider myself a pretty open minded person. I went in there with an honest heart and an open mind. Yes, I had the heard horror stories (I had skimmed a couple of books) and I was somewhat in disbelief. I guess I had a naive "hope" that it wasn't true and that my experience would be "good"....
WOW was I FLOORED!!
I'm humiliated and totally ashamed to admit this... WHAT AN IDIOT I WAS!
Perhaps the sickest part of all of this...and I don't recall the books really emphasizing this point.. ... All of the people who administer a polygraph (for the govt) have taken an oath of office to uphold and defend the constitution of the United States!...
The people who oversee these letter agencies have also taken this oath as have our congressman, senators, judiciary branch and president.
How in the name of god could ANYONE swear an oath to the constitution in one breath and then administer these tests in another! Totally beyond my comprehension!!.. SICKENING absolutely sickening...
I am further of the opinion having had time to digest the whole fiasco, that this process has two silent criteria. 1) the person taking it has no clue what his constitutional rights are and will therefore not know how or why/when to invoke them....or if they are even being violated... but if you do know! MAN WHAT A SHOCK! and 2) if the person is not gullible and understands the whole thing is an "act" they have no chance at passing. meaning if you're and educated American, i.e one who understands amendments 1,4,5,6 and understands that the polygraph doesn't work... the person would have to automatically be disqualified! How could they possibly qualify you... If they can't con you..you;re out!! Thank god for anti-discrimination laws huh!
If this is true then is the government really hiring it's best or it's brightest? or just the ones that don't understand their constitutional rights and believe the bluff of the polygraph?
Further, I'm also of the opinion, our country has a bigger problem than just this polygraph BS... our judicial system is obviously picking and choosing which laws to enforce and clearly who they apply to...
(Didn't the constitution use to be the supreme law of the land? It's still in effect in America isn't it? ) it is?
Legal question number 1? does signing a waiver form (which lets them turn on the polygraph) grant a waiver to the govt polygrapher of his or her oath of office ( To uphold and defend the constitution?)
Legal question number 2... Does swearing an oath to uphold and defend the constitution grant the swearer the option to exempt themselves from it? Does it allow them to deny/violate the constitutional rights of U.S Citizens? Guess that's for a judge to decide huh? But obviously they don't do that anymore ..... !!!
Everywhere you go..it gets sicker and sicker....