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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by guest
- Dec 19, 2002, 03:30 PMbear,
why are you surprised about an atty going into LE? I'm an atty and one of the reasons I went this route was to get into the FBI. I know of several attys who are now detectives, etc. My family, too, was surprised at my choice to go into LE - but they were more concerned with the "social status" angle. I wonder, am I in the minority in thinking it's no big deal to switch from law practice to LE?
Guest.
why are you surprised about an atty going into LE? I'm an atty and one of the reasons I went this route was to get into the FBI. I know of several attys who are now detectives, etc. My family, too, was surprised at my choice to go into LE - but they were more concerned with the "social status" angle. I wonder, am I in the minority in thinking it's no big deal to switch from law practice to LE?
Guest.
Posted by WRT55
- Dec 16, 2002, 05:37 PMQuote from: DEPUTY BEAR on Aug 18, 2002, 01:38 AM
22
I have a quick question(s) for you; why are you going into law enforcement with a law degree? How did you go to law school while being a cop? Did you do a part time program? I am interested in becoming an attorney but I don't see how I can do it while I am a deputy. I have been accepted to law school but I am putting it off so that I may receive "in the field" training, after all, I can be a lawyer at any age.
you work the midnight watch and go to school in the day or your work the day watch and go to school at night. In my case, I did the former. took almost five years and a lot of gray hair.
Posted by DEPUTY BEAR
- Aug 18, 2002, 01:38 AM22
I have a quick question(s) for you; why are you going into law enforcement with a law degree? How did you go to law school while being a cop? Did you do a part time program? I am interested in becoming an attorney but I don't see how I can do it while I am a deputy. I have been accepted to law school but I am putting it off so that I may receive "in the field" training, after all, I can be a lawyer at any age.
I have a quick question(s) for you; why are you going into law enforcement with a law degree? How did you go to law school while being a cop? Did you do a part time program? I am interested in becoming an attorney but I don't see how I can do it while I am a deputy. I have been accepted to law school but I am putting it off so that I may receive "in the field" training, after all, I can be a lawyer at any age.
Posted by 22
- Jul 26, 2002, 09:11 PMRat?? I think not Batman, I have been a cop for 4 years and have been in law school for 2.5 years. I know the law and I know that this incident was minor and stupid. If it was anything, it would have turned into a conviction which it did not. I have researched it, I just wanted to see what others thought.
Posted by Batman (Guest)
- Jul 25, 2002, 10:31 PM"22",
You did all that in a matter of 4 days from seeking your initial advice on this site, and one of those days being a Sunday? Interesting. You also went from a simple dismissed "minor" misdemeanor to now having an alleged "victim", a witness of some sort (the third party), and a cop that had it out for you. I'm starting to smell a rat here.
Watcha think Beech?
Batman
You did all that in a matter of 4 days from seeking your initial advice on this site, and one of those days being a Sunday? Interesting. You also went from a simple dismissed "minor" misdemeanor to now having an alleged "victim", a witness of some sort (the third party), and a cop that had it out for you. I'm starting to smell a rat here.
Watcha think Beech?
Batman
Posted by 22
- Jul 25, 2002, 08:57 PMThanks for all of your replys...I have read the statute clearly and also got the advise of several attorneys and they all told me that I do not have to say I was arrested. I have admitted to it before on a poly, and I think I was not hired because of it. Will a new agency far away (out of state) get access to this old poly you think? The thing was such a crock...I really think the cop had it out for me...I should have sued the dept for false arrest. They had absolutly no evidence, even the so-called victim did not want to press charges. They relied souly on a third party's lies and fabrications of the thing.
Posted by Batman (Guest)
- Jul 25, 2002, 08:04 PMYankeedog,
Amen to you brother, at least somone got it right. Beech Trees almost had it until his daddy corrected him. Man did he do a quick turn around.
Anyway, "22", just get it out on the table. If what you say is in fact true, you were arrested and the charge was in fact dismissed, then simply report that. Do not make up some line of BS about how the arresting officer was "in error" (good one Beech Trees), do not rely on some small writing in the law that may or may not permit you to withhold this; and for sure do not rely on the pseudo legal advice you get from some on this site. Bottom line is, it is obviously bothering you, so just lay it out there. Then there is no way it can come back at you, unless you only lay a protion of it out.
Yankeedog made the right call, follow his advice. Honesty will win out, regardless of what the proponents of this site advise.
Batman
Amen to you brother, at least somone got it right. Beech Trees almost had it until his daddy corrected him. Man did he do a quick turn around.
Anyway, "22", just get it out on the table. If what you say is in fact true, you were arrested and the charge was in fact dismissed, then simply report that. Do not make up some line of BS about how the arresting officer was "in error" (good one Beech Trees), do not rely on some small writing in the law that may or may not permit you to withhold this; and for sure do not rely on the pseudo legal advice you get from some on this site. Bottom line is, it is obviously bothering you, so just lay it out there. Then there is no way it can come back at you, unless you only lay a protion of it out.
Yankeedog made the right call, follow his advice. Honesty will win out, regardless of what the proponents of this site advise.
Batman
Posted by yankeedog
- Jul 25, 2002, 06:51 PMI would not advise concealing a prior arrest. Even if the record was expunged, it doesn't change the fact that you were arrested. I would suggest you report it with an explanation as to how it was adjudicated. Otherwise, you might be setting yourself up for failure. You are taking a big chance on hurting yourself and you won't have anyone to blame but yourself if you try to hide it. If you get caught hiding it, it is just going to make you look bad.
Posted by Mark Mallah
- Jul 24, 2002, 07:18 PMQuoteMake sure that you are reading the statute correctly. Does it say that you can swear that you were "never arrested" or does it say that you can swear that you were "never convicted" my bet is that it is choice #2.
My bet is that the statute says you can say you were never arrested. I am familiar with such a statute (not through personal experience) in the state of Colorado. In any event, Ray is correct that you should read the statute carefully.
Posted by Ray Latimer
- Jul 24, 2002, 07:10 PMBackground Help!!!
Make sure that you are reading the statute correctly. Does it say that you can swear that you were "never arrested" or does it say that you can swear that you were "never convicted" my bet is that it is choice #2. I cannot conceive of any statute that would give you the authority to lie. The fact is that you were arrested but not convicted. Play it straight ADMIT IT.
RAY L.
Make sure that you are reading the statute correctly. Does it say that you can swear that you were "never arrested" or does it say that you can swear that you were "never convicted" my bet is that it is choice #2. I cannot conceive of any statute that would give you the authority to lie. The fact is that you were arrested but not convicted. Play it straight ADMIT IT.
RAY L.
Posted by beech trees
- Jul 24, 2002, 10:33 AMPerhaps you're right George... In my reply, I was relying too heavily on the polygrapher understanding and respecting the statute, rather than his or her jumping at the opportunity to twist said admission (which appears, on the surface anyway, to be a minor admission since in the eyes of the law 'it never happened') into a full-blown DI result-- with or without the chart to back it up.
Forget my earlier advice. Don't bring up the old arrest.
Dave
Forget my earlier advice. Don't bring up the old arrest.
Dave
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Jul 24, 2002, 03:56 AMDave,
You wrote in part:
I think that such a "post-test" admission would be a big mistake: it could very well be used to disqualify an applicant. The statute notwithstanding, such an admission could be construed by a polygrapher or his employer to show that the subject had withheld pertinent information.
I think it would be safest not to mention the arrest at all, as allowed by state law in this case.
You wrote in part:
QuoteIf you plan on using countermeasures, and a bluff is called with regard to any of the relevant questions, this old arrest would be a perfect excuse to use-- mull it over earnestly for a few moments and say words to the effect that even though the statute reads that you can swear under oath you were never arrested, it's still bothering you and could this be the reason why....?
I think that such a "post-test" admission would be a big mistake: it could very well be used to disqualify an applicant. The statute notwithstanding, such an admission could be construed by a polygrapher or his employer to show that the subject had withheld pertinent information.
I think it would be safest not to mention the arrest at all, as allowed by state law in this case.
Posted by 22
- Jul 23, 2002, 10:18 PMdave,
so then your saying if this guy imploys I am being deceptive then admit to this incident? Then he will find out and I might be labeled as being deceptive to the department I want to work for. Also, if you are a police officer and apply to a different PD, does the new PD get a copy of your poly you took for the Pd you work for currently or any other PDs you have worked for? Is that part of the background invest. even if they are years old? I know that they cannot release the pscyh because that's medical I was told. Thanks
so then your saying if this guy imploys I am being deceptive then admit to this incident? Then he will find out and I might be labeled as being deceptive to the department I want to work for. Also, if you are a police officer and apply to a different PD, does the new PD get a copy of your poly you took for the Pd you work for currently or any other PDs you have worked for? Is that part of the background invest. even if they are years old? I know that they cannot release the pscyh because that's medical I was told. Thanks
Posted by beech trees
- Jul 23, 2002, 10:07 PMQuote from: 22 on Jul 23, 2002, 04:41 PM
Oh yeah, I have it on hand. I just want to be sure because I dont want to come across as a lair to any of these so called Polygraphists or police departments that use them. thanks
If you plan on using countermeasures, and a bluff is called with regard to any of the relevant questions, this old arrest would be a perfect excuse to use-- mull it over earnestly for a few moments and say words to the effect that even though the statute reads that you can swear under oath you were never arrested, it's still bothering you and could this be the reason why....? Other than that make NO admissions. Just my humble opinion,
Dave
Posted by 22
- Jul 23, 2002, 04:41 PMOh yeah, I have it on hand. I just want to be sure because I dont want to come across as a lair to any of these so called Polygraphists or police departments that use them. thanks