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[quote author=Doug Williams link=msg=37952 date=1384447658]
[quote author=George_Maschke link=topic=0.0 date=1384441439]Thanks to Marisa Taylor's investigative reporting, we now know how the federal government is using Doug Williams' and Chad Dixon's business records. It has created a watch list of some 4,904 names and circulated it to nearly 30 federal agencies including the CIA, NSA, DOE, TSA, IRS, and FDA:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/11/14/208438/americans-personal-data-shared.html

[/quote]

I have proved the polygraph is worthless as a "lie detector" - truthful people are often called liars and I can teach anyone how to control every tracing on the chart in a matter of minutes! Go to my website polygraph.com for more information about that. But, since all the scientific evidence shows there is no such thing as a "lie detector", wouldn't responsible policy makers in the government stop the use of the polygraph if they were aware of these problems? One would think they would, but the sad fact is they already know all these things - they have known since at least 1985 when I testified in Congress and got the EMPLOYEE POLYGRAPH PROTECTION ACT passed into law, (the EPPA outlawed the use of the polygraph in private industry). I testified in the U.S. Congress in support of the EPPA. Click here to read a transcript of my testimony: http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015011381806;view=1up;seq=281 (My testimony begins on pg 275) Here is an interesting piece of historical trivia: When I testified in Congress, I put my manual, HOW TO STING THE POLYGRAPH into the Congressional Record, and the Senators and Representatives distributed more copies of my manual between 1984 and 1988 than anyone has ever distributed - including me! They sent them out by the tens of thousands in response to requests from constituents. (I wonder if they are going to get that "list" too?) But, there were exclusions written into the law that allowed the government - local state and federal - to continue to use the polygraph. They attempt to justify these exclusions on the grounds that the government needs this tool to protect national security and the law enforcement officials need it to protect the integrity of the criminal justice system. I have proved the polygraph is not a "lie detector" - the Congress, the Justice Department, the OTA, and all those with any scientific credibility agree with me - so there is no justification for the government to continue to use it on the pretext that it protects our national security or the integrity of the criminal justice system. But, knowing the polygraph is worthless as a "lie detector", knowing that people were wrongly accused of lying, and knowing that many were abused by polygraph operators asking illegal questions was still not enough to convince government agencies to stop using the polygraph. In fact, these agencies demanded that they be excluded from this law in order to "protect national security" and to "assure the integrity of law enforcement and the criminal justice system". The lawmakers caved and allowed the exclusions to be written into the law because that was the only way to be assured that even the watered down version prohibiting the polygraph in the private sector would pass. Why do government agencies still staunchly defend the use of the polygraph and even harass, intimidate and try to punish me for proving the polygraph is not a "lie detector" by demonstrating that I can teach anyone to easily control the results of the "test"? Why do they do everything in their power to prevent any information that discredits the "lie detector" from being exposed? Why do they intimidate applicants and others who are required to submit to polygraph "testing" by monitoring their internet activity and punishing them for educating themselves about the polygraph? Why does the government love to use this "Frankenstein's Monster", (a description given to the polygraph by its inventor Dr. Larson)? And why do they insist on continuing to use it?

It is FOOLISH and DANGEROUS to use the polygraph as "lie detector" - the theory of "lie detection" is nothing but junk science. It is based on a faulty scientific premise. The polygraph operators have the audacity to say that there is such a thing as a "reaction indicative of deception", when I can prove that "lying reaction" is simply a nervous reaction commonly referred to as the fight or flight syndrome. In fact, the polygraph is nothing but a psychological billy club that is used to coerce a person into making admissions or confessions. It is FOOLISH and DANGEROUS for government agencies to rely on the polygraph to "test" applicants, or to conduct any type of investigations relating to national security. It is FOOLISH and DANGEROUS for the criminal justice system to rely on an instrument that has been thoroughly discredited to determine whether or not a person is truthful or deceptive, or to use it to guide their investigations in any way - especially when the results cannot even be used as evidence in a court of law! And it is FOOLISH and DANGEROUS for anyone to believe they will pass their polygraph "test" if they just tell the truth! When you factor in all the damage done to people who are falsely branded as liars by these con men and their unconscionable conduct, this fraud of "lie detection" perpetrated by the polygraph industry should be a federal crime! The protection provided to some people by the EPPA should be extended to protect everyone from this insidious Orwellian instrument of torture! Shame on anyone who administers these "tests" - and shame on the government for continuing to allow this state sponsored sadism!

So, here we have this diabolical dichotomy - the government protects some people from polygraph abuse and perpetrates polygraph abuse on others! The Congress outlaws the use of the polygraph in the private sector, (and distributes my manuals, teaching people how to pass their tests), the Justice Department argues that it should not be used as evidence in court, the Supreme Courts agrees and refuses to allow polygraph results into evidence, and the OTA issues a report saying all the scientific evidence proves it is not reliable - yet, after all this, many government agencies greatly expand the use of the polygraph to numbers never seen before in the history of the country!

So what explains this schizophrenia in the government? Why do they outlaw it in one area and expand it in another? I'm afraid I know - I think President Nixon told us why the government uses it when he said, "I don't know anything about polygraphs, and I don't know how accurate they are, but I know they'll scare the hell out of people, and that's why I like to use them!" That mentality regarding the polygraph is the very reason I do what I do! I educate people about the polygraph so that the polygraph thugs can't use it to scare the hell out of them - and even worse, call them liars simply because they have a nervous reaction on a relevant question! I teach people how to prove they are telling the truth because just telling the truth really only works about half the time! A person will probably fail their polygraph test unless they are trained to show the polygraph examiner what he expects to see from a truthful person. I have been asked this question many times: Can liars use this information to pass just as easily as truthful people? The answer to that question is YES! I have no control over who gets the information in my manual and video/DVD. But let me make this perfectly clear - I assume that people come to me for personal training because they know that just telling the truth only works about half the time. And, except for frivolous cases such as fidelity testing, or for demonstrations on television programs, speaking engagements and seminars, I will not knowingly teach a person to deliberately lie! Besides, liars can pass easily whether they have been trained or not - history is full of people who have lied and passed polygraphs with no problem. Aldridge Ames, the notorious spy, passed many polygraph exams - and he was an active spy when he took, (and passed) several polygraph tests! As a matter of fact there has never been even one spy ever caught by the polygraph! I have often demonstrated how simple it is to "beat the box" on national television programs. It is true that anyone can use my techniques to pass their polygraph test regardless of whether they are nervous or not, lying or not, no matter what. I have said that for over 40 years. I say it in hopes that those who use this instrument will realize that it is not accurate or reliable as a "lie detector" and will quit using it!

By describing my training as "countermeasures" that people use in order to pass a polygraph as a form of cheating, or something used only by liars who are trying to "beat" the "lie detector", polygraph operators are asserting something as a fact that is absolutely false - something that all evidence proves is false; i.e. that the polygraph is accurate, reliable, and effective in detecting truth and detecting deception. All the scientific evidence available proves that the polygraph is none of those things. The polygraph is no more accurate than the toss of a coin - in other words it is only able to detect deception approximately 50% of the time. This also means that unless truthful people get prepared to pass the test, over 50% of the time the polygraph con men will brand them as liars just because they are nervous. A sad irony is that often the people polygraph operators accuse people of using "countermeasures" are those who have no idea what that even means! As a matter of fact, polygraph operators are now so paranoid that one of the questions frequently asked on the polygraph test itself is if the subject has read my manual. Many of these unscrupulous jerks will fail or disqualify people just because they are suspected of the horrible Orwellian "thought crime" of educating themselves! But trying to "catch" anyone who uses the information in my manual and video/DVD to pass their polygraph test is an exercise in futility on the part of the polygraph operator, because everyone who uses the Sting Technique will ALWAYS PASS - and the only thing the polygraph operator will see is a perfect, natural truthful chart! As a matter of fact, the information in my manual is so effective, (and because the polygraph as a "lie detector" is so ineffective), the information in my manual and video/DVD is considered to be "contraband" - it is actually prohibited by Big Brother polygraphers in the government! This proves that polygraph operators are today's version of the thugs employed by Orwell's Ministry of Truth!

After much thought, I have come to what I consider to be the only logical conclusion that can be drawn as to why government agencies, (federal, state, & local) continue to use the polygraph even though all the scientific evidence proves it is worthless as a "lie detector". I believe they are using the polygraph as a subterfuge to avoid complying with federal employment regulations! What else explains the 65% "failure" rate for applicants who have already passed a very thorough background investigation? These agencies can circumvent federal laws and discriminate against people, ask illegal questions, interrogate/terrorize them for hours, and use the polygraph as an excuse to deny employment to anyone they don't want to hire. They can be totally subjective in their hiring and firing practices when they use the polygraph, because all they have to do is to say the applicant "failed" a polygraph test. By simply saying the person has "failed" a polygraph test, government agencies can hire and fire people at will and then just blame it on the "failed" polygraph test. There is no way anyone can appeal a hiring or firing decision that is based on a "failed" polygraph - and those who are denied employment or terminated have no recourse - they can't bring a lawsuit for discrimination or wrongful termination! Do I believe the government agencies who utilize the polygraph are this nefarious? YES! And it is tantamount to criminal negligence on the part of those charged with oversight of these government agencies to allow them to continue to use this so-called "lie detector testing"!
[/quote]

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Posted by George W. Maschke

- Nov 16, 2013, 08:30 AM

Quote from: quickfix on Nov 14, 2013, 05:02 PMYou're a relic of the past, long since forgotten, like the old Soviet Union.But please keep selling your wares, so we can keep catching the imbeciles who try to use your "tried and true" CM methods.

Quickfix,

The fact that the U.S. government has made Doug Williams the target of an ongoing criminal investigation for teaching people how to pass a polygraph "test" is incontrovertible proof that he hasn't been forgotten. Certainly not by the federal polygraph community. Moreover, the fact that our government felt the need to target Doug (and identify his customers) seriously undermines the polygraph community's claim that it can detect the polygraph passing techniques that he teaches.

Posted by George W. Maschke

- Nov 15, 2013, 12:53 AM

U.S. Senator Tom Coburn (R-OK) expressed concern about the circulation of the polygraph watch list in a hearing yesterday, citing Marisa Taylor's reporting on it (at 1:23:00):

http://c-spanvideo.org/program/CyberThrea

Marisa Taylor reports on Coburn's remarks here:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/11/14/208615/crackdown-that-shared-americans.html

Posted by George W. Maschke

- Nov 15, 2013, 12:35 AM

QuoteBy the way George, since you are only the "Co-Founder" of this site, who is/are the other Co-Founder(s)?I never hear their named mentioned around these parks, what has become of them?And who is Gino J. Scalabrini, the other author on TLBTLD?

Gino Scalabrini is the other co-founder of AntiPolygraph.org. He's alive and well, but I'm taking care of site updates and answering the mail lately.

Posted by Ex Member

- Nov 14, 2013, 10:27 PM

Quote from: quickfix on Nov 14, 2013, 05:02 PMso we can keep catching the imbeciles who try to use your "tried and true" CM methods.

Quickfix, previously you faded away when confronted with the countermeasure challenge. You may indeed be able to catch 'imbeciles' who try crude and unrefined attempts, but a properly executed countermeasure is impossible to detect. This is the reason the overreaching Operation Lie Buster even exists.

Posted by poly beater

- Nov 14, 2013, 08:45 PM

Just to let folks know, I used information from Doug Williams (though I never personally saw Doug) and from George Maschke's TLBTLD and I was able to LIE AND BEAT MY POLYGRAPH. That's right. I used the mental countermeasures where I would do arithmetic in my head (or think about an exciting sports event, or some good dirty porn) to generate responses on the questions that were not relevant. Simple. I was also very calm and respectful and told the polygrapher that I had no intent of using countermeasures and that I had nothing to hide. I didn't even crack under their silly interrogation procedure.

I used CMs and passed, and got hired. This was for a 3-letter agency. I was not caught in any of these Operation Lie Buster stings or anything. I know many other people who have lied and used CMs and passed as well. We joke about the whole process and the pussies who fall for it and start telling all of their business, things the polygrapher would have never found out about in the first place. The fact is, mental countermeasures are not detectable because you can't read someone's brain. lol. You may be able to detect breathing anomalies by the pneumatic tubes on the machine, or tongue biting if you watch closely, or butt-squeezing with the seat sensor that is now used....but mental countermeasures work great and are undetectable.

Thank you Doug and George.

By the way George, since you are only the "Co-Founder" of this site, who is/are the other Co-Founder(s)? I never hear their named mentioned around these parks, what has become of them? And who is Gino J. Scalabrini, the other author on TLBTLD?

Posted by Doug Williams

- Nov 14, 2013, 05:44 PM

Quote(Same John as above)

Thanks for your response Doug. I appreciate your candor and your work. Can give an estimate of how many people purchased your book last year, and also over the last 10-15 years? Thank you.

NO & NO! But good try Mr. Paranoid Polygrapher!

Posted by Doug Williams

- Nov 14, 2013, 05:39 PM

Quote from: quickfix on Nov 14, 2013, 05:02 PMDoug, interesting that you completely ignored my allegation that your contention of having conducted 30,000+ exams in your "career" is bullshit. Obviously you didn't, so you ignore it and maybe it'll go away.

You will not see any post of mine referring to a polygraph instrument as a "lie detector"; there is no such thing. It is a diagnostic tool used to monitor and record changes in physiology to applied stimuli.

Nervous reactions= deception? Show us all where I've said that on this website. You can't, any more than you can show that I've ever said polygraph is 100% accurate, which it is not. No reputable polygraph school teaches that "nervous reactions equals deception". It just goes to show how poor your own training was. You're a relic of the past, long since forgotten, like the old Soviet Union. But please keep selling your wares, so we can keep catching the imbeciles who try to use your "tried and true" CM methods.

I should know better, but here goes - I never said I ran 30,000 tests - and you can't present an argument for the use of the polygraph as a "lie detector" so it is a waste of time to respond to you. But I thank you - at least you haven't forgotten me. And if you and your cohorts are so good at "catching" people who use my techniques, why go to so much trouble getting their names?

Posted by John3319208

- Nov 14, 2013, 05:05 PM

(Same John as above)

Thanks for your response Doug. I appreciate your candor and your work. Can give an estimate of how many people purchased your book last year, and also over the last 10-15 years? Thank you.

Posted by quickfix

- Nov 14, 2013, 05:02 PM

Doug, interesting that you completely ignored my allegation that your contention of having conducted 30,000+ exams in your "career" is bullshit. Obviously you didn't, so you ignore it and maybe it'll go away.

You will not see any post of mine referring to a polygraph instrument as a "lie detector"; there is no such thing. It is a diagnostic tool used to monitor and record changes in physiology to applied stimuli.

Nervous reactions= deception? Show us all where I've said that on this website. You can't, any more than you can show that I've ever said polygraph is 100% accurate, which it is not. No reputable polygraph school teaches that "nervous reactions equals deception". It just goes to show how poor your own training was. You're a relic of the past, long since forgotten, like the old Soviet Union. But please keep selling your wares, so we can keep catching the imbeciles who try to use your "tried and true" CM methods.

Posted by Doug Williams

- Nov 14, 2013, 04:59 PM

Quote from: John331189 on Nov 14, 2013, 04:50 PMDoug Williams,

How far do these 4900 records go? Did everybody that ever bought your book end up on this list that is being sent around? I guess I'm wondering how far back your records go. If somebody bought your book 6 (or 8 or 12) years ago, should they assume their name is on the list? Thanks.

I honestly don't know where they got that number, who is on the list, or how far back it goes - I can only quote from the article:

["There was serious effort put into this list but it turned out to be a whole lot of nothing," said one federal security official with knowledge of the overall effort who asked not to be named for fear of retaliation.]

Posted by John331189

- Nov 14, 2013, 04:50 PM

Doug Williams,

How far do these 4900 records go? Did everybody that ever bought your book end up on this list that is being sent around? I guess I'm wondering how far back your records go. If somebody bought your book 6 (or 8 or 12) years ago, should they assume their name is on the list? Thanks.

Posted by Doug Williams

- Nov 14, 2013, 04:39 PM

Quote from: quickfix on Nov 14, 2013, 04:12 PMYou're confusing bitterness with sarcasm! Actually, I have made arguments against Doug Williams' nonsense in the past. He would have you believe that he "single-handedly" brought down the polygraph profession, which couldn't be further from the truth. He enjoyed his "15 minutes of fame" almost three decades ago, and ended nothing. He was a local yokel police examiner, claiming to have conducted 30,000+ polygraph exams; this might be true if he did 10 exams a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year, but he didn't, and his credibility is zero. EPPA only changed polygraph rules for the private sector, not nation-wide, so he brought down nothing. There are more federal agencies using polygraph than ever before. What he does do is use this website to self-promote his books, DVDs, and other anti-polygraph snake oil. The suckers who bought his crap and subsequently got caught in "Operation Liebuster" deserve their fate. They got what they paid for.

P.S. I'll keep you guessing as to my gender.

You have never made an "argument" - many ad hominem attacks, but never an argument. But now is your opportunity. Make your "argument" against my "nonsense". Make your case and prove that the polygraph really is a lie detector! Prove to me that the nervous "reactions" to relevant questions ALWAYS indicate deception. You have the floor, and I wait with bated breath to be swayed by the eloquence of your "argument".....

Posted by quickfix

- Nov 14, 2013, 04:12 PM

You're confusing bitterness with sarcasm! Actually, I have made arguments against Doug Williams' nonsense in the past. He would have you believe that he "single-handedly" brought down the polygraph profession, which couldn't be further from the truth. He enjoyed his "15 minutes of fame" almost three decades ago, and ended nothing. He was a local yokel police examiner, claiming to have conducted 30,000+ polygraph exams; this might be true if he did 10 exams a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year, but he didn't, and his credibility is zero. EPPA only changed polygraph rules for the private sector, not nation-wide, so he brought down nothing. There are more federal agencies using polygraph than ever before. What he does do is use this website to self-promote his books, DVDs, and other anti-polygraph snake oil. The suckers who bought his crap and subsequently got caught in "Operation Liebuster" deserve their fate. They got what they paid for.

P.S. I'll keep you guessing as to my gender.

Posted by Ex Member

- Nov 14, 2013, 03:50 PM

Quote from: quickfix on Nov 14, 2013, 03:06 PMIt is FOOLISH and DANGEROUS to listen to anything you have to say.

Sell your Shamwow product on Amazon.com

Quickfix, as usual, you do not proffer any kind of counter-argument beyond jejune insults. May I ask if you are female?--you have that rejected spinster bitterness air about you.

Posted by quickfix

- Nov 14, 2013, 03:06 PM

It is FOOLISH and DANGEROUS to listen to anything you have to say.

Sell your Shamwow product on Amazon.com