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Posted by Sully
- Jan 08, 2014, 11:04 AMQuote from: xenonman on Nov 18, 2013, 05:16 PMYes, you can cross the CIA and NSA off of your career "bucket list"!
wasn't on my bucket list....?
Posted by xenonman
- Nov 18, 2013, 05:16 PMYes, you can cross the CIA and NSA off of your career "bucket list"!
Posted by Sully
- Aug 08, 2013, 10:41 AMwell, I will and can say this, my friend who failed, was so extremely nervous, even before going into the poly the 2nd time, after they accused him of lying...I totally believe, that the accusation, upset him so much so, that, he will never be able to take a poly again. He is a nervous person to begin with, and I do know this, when you accuse an honest person of deception, it unravels them to the point of appearing guilty. I believe it is the worst thing you can do to an honest person, b/c they tend to pride themselves on being honest....and as for me, when someone is speaking to me or I them, I don't look them in the eyes all the time. It is not b/c I'm lying, but b/c I'm consentrating. My friend is somewhat the same. I'm sure after failing that 1st poly, he just fell apart...and couldn't pass them from then on.
But, fact of the matter is, I know for a fact, that he didn't lie...and he might have appeared nervous b/c he was afraid this machine would fail him and he'd miss a tremendous upgrade in pay, which would have made a huge betterment for his family.
In other words, his dream job and huge pay increase were rejected, and rejection is a terrible thing, espcially when you know your telling the truth!
Is there anything I can do to help...if there is, please let me know...
Yanno, I know for a fact, I wouldn't be able to take a polygraph, as I pride myself as being an honest person and actually am known to be so honest I step on toes. My mother was that way? :-/ So, to, is my friend, that failed the poly...my point is, the moment they'd hook me up to any poly, I'd probably fall apart. I was accused of stealing something once, when I was a kid...I allowed them to search me, and they said, "you appeared so guilty!" Some people are simply like that, period.
In reading these stories in this forum, I can tell you, honestly, my heart completely sinks for these people who have failed....and will fail....it is, to me, inhuman, to try and second guess a human being. We humans are extremely conceited enough to actually think after this so called poly training, that we can actually read when someone is lying? I mean, think about the credibility of THAT person?
But, fact of the matter is, I know for a fact, that he didn't lie...and he might have appeared nervous b/c he was afraid this machine would fail him and he'd miss a tremendous upgrade in pay, which would have made a huge betterment for his family.
In other words, his dream job and huge pay increase were rejected, and rejection is a terrible thing, espcially when you know your telling the truth!
Is there anything I can do to help...if there is, please let me know...
Yanno, I know for a fact, I wouldn't be able to take a polygraph, as I pride myself as being an honest person and actually am known to be so honest I step on toes. My mother was that way? :-/ So, to, is my friend, that failed the poly...my point is, the moment they'd hook me up to any poly, I'd probably fall apart. I was accused of stealing something once, when I was a kid...I allowed them to search me, and they said, "you appeared so guilty!" Some people are simply like that, period.
In reading these stories in this forum, I can tell you, honestly, my heart completely sinks for these people who have failed....and will fail....it is, to me, inhuman, to try and second guess a human being. We humans are extremely conceited enough to actually think after this so called poly training, that we can actually read when someone is lying?
I mean, think about the credibility of THAT person? Posted by Doug Williams
- Aug 08, 2013, 08:48 AMQuote from: Arkhangelsk on Aug 07, 2013, 10:40 PMExcellent post Doug - you nailed it right on.
Thanks - I have been fighting the dangerous myth of "lie detection" for 35 years. George joined in the fight about 13 years ago, and has compiled a massive amount of evidence of polygraph abuse. I think we are making some progress in stemming the tide of pro polygraph propaganda, but it is a tough battle.
The only thing that has ever been on my "bucket list" is to completely stop the use of the polygraph in this country. I'm getting older, but the way the government is fighting me and the extraordinary methods they are using to try to stop me, let me know that I may be getting close to achieving my goal. We must all band together to stop this insanity, as George says, "they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing". We must stop them!
Posted by Ex Member
- Aug 07, 2013, 10:40 PMExcellent post Doug - you nailed it right on.
Posted by Doug Williams
- Aug 07, 2013, 12:57 PMIt is bad, (but perhaps understandable, and even sometimes necessary), to use the polygraph as a prop for polygraph interrogators to frighten and intimidate people in order to get confessions or admissions of wrong doing- but it is never acceptable to take it a step further and disqualify applicants, deny security clearances, and revoke probations simply because a person has a nervous reaction on the polygraph "test", or because the polygrapher accuses them of using so-called "countermeasures". Most polygraph operators and all polygraph associations say that the polygraph should only be used as an aid to guide investigators, and that the test results should never be the sole determinant of guilt or innocence, or truth or deception, or whether or not a person gets or keeps a job or a security clearance, (see AAPP footnote below) - but the sad fact is, that happens every day to thousands of people. That fact alone should be the basis for malpractice lawsuits against polygraph operators! Polygraph operators are out of control - they no longer abide by the commonly accepted protocols agreed upon by their own professional associations - they don't answer to anyone, and they don't give a damn about the millions of people who are traumatized, and whose lives are ruined by their arbitrary and capricious actions. That is not only wrong, it should be illegal! It is tantamount to criminal negligence on the part of our government to allow this so-called "lie detector" testing to continue!
Footnote: The American Association of Police Polygraphists: "Polygraph testing, forensic psychophysiology, and credibility assessment, are evolving fields of science, intended to be used as decision support tools. These tools should aid investigators and referring agencies in making decisions about the truthfulness or deception of individuals in diagnostic and screening test circumstances. The role of scientific testing is to provide information, while professional evaluators are the final authority on all matters that require expert judgment."
Footnote: The American Association of Police Polygraphists: "Polygraph testing, forensic psychophysiology, and credibility assessment, are evolving fields of science, intended to be used as decision support tools. These tools should aid investigators and referring agencies in making decisions about the truthfulness or deception of individuals in diagnostic and screening test circumstances. The role of scientific testing is to provide information, while professional evaluators are the final authority on all matters that require expert judgment."
Posted by Sully
- Aug 06, 2013, 03:15 PMBoy Doug, I really wish I could share my story publically, just to show how corrupt and filled with power they are...but it is so bizarre, those that gave the polygraph would know, but they do in fact work together, and in fact, would definately have to justify why the other one failed him, if he passed. I do know that some take the test for the second time and do pass, but a lot don't. And those that do pass, I'd be willing to bet, have had fair examiners, who are not filled up with themselves.
do you also know, polys are used to purposely disqualify a candidate
do you also know, polys are used to purposely disqualify a candidate
Quote from: Doug_Williams on Aug 06, 2013, 02:20 PMQuote from: 775148485D240 on Aug 06, 2013, 10:39 AMA candidate goes to a state to apply for a job...
the examiner gives him the poly, and fails him
the candidate moves on to another agency to apply, (in the same state) and that polygrapher asks, "have you ever failed a poly before and if so, what was the question".
They should NOT be allowed to ask that question...
and when a candidate goes back for a 2nd test, they usually fail? Why, b/c passing a candidate after failing before, well, the examiner would have to justify then, why he/she failed that same candidate, right? So, he is automatically failed every time, he takes a poly in that area, and did you know, the examiners call each other about that particular candidate?
This is so wrong, so wrong....talk about corrupt?
and should be illegal!!!!!!!
You are right - it should be illegal to use the polygraph in the government just as it is in the private sector! There are millions of people who have been falsely branded as liars, and had their lives ruined because they believed the lie that the polygraph was reliable and accurate as a "lie detector" and that the polygrapher was an honorable professional who would treat them fairly. They found out the hard way that the polygrapher was just an interrogator and the polygraph was just a prop he used to frighten and intimidate them.
Posted by Doug Williams
- Aug 06, 2013, 02:20 PMQuote from: 775148485D240 on Aug 06, 2013, 10:39 AMA candidate goes to a state to apply for a job...
the examiner gives him the poly, and fails him
the candidate moves on to another agency to apply, (in the same state) and that polygrapher asks, "have you ever failed a poly before and if so, what was the question".
They should NOT be allowed to ask that question...
and when a candidate goes back for a 2nd test, they usually fail? Why, b/c passing a candidate after failing before, well, the examiner would have to justify then, why he/she failed that same candidate, right? So, he is automatically failed every time, he takes a poly in that area, and did you know, the examiners call each other about that particular candidate?
This is so wrong, so wrong....talk about corrupt?
and should be illegal!!!!!!!
You are right - it should be illegal to use the polygraph in the government just as it is in the private sector! There are millions of people who have been falsely branded as liars, and had their lives ruined because they believed the lie that the polygraph was reliable and accurate as a "lie detector" and that the polygrapher was an honorable professional who would treat them fairly. They found out the hard way that the polygrapher was just an interrogator and the polygraph was just a prop he used to frighten and intimidate them.
Posted by Sully
- Aug 06, 2013, 12:11 PMThanks for being objective, please forgive me, but, it is difficult for me to be objective right now, however, I do know everything you have said here is correct....
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Aug 06, 2013, 11:43 AMQuote from: 1B3D242431480 on Aug 06, 2013, 10:39 AMA candidate goes to a state to apply for a job...
the examiner gives him the poly, and fails him
the candidate moves on to another agency to apply, (in the same state) and that polygrapher asks, "have you ever failed a poly before and if so, what was the question".
They should NOT be allowed to ask that question...
It's Catch-22: they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.
Quoteand when a candidate goes back for a 2nd test, they usually fail? Why, b/c passing a candidate after failing before, well, the examiner would have to justify then, why he/she failed that same candidate, right? So, he is automatically failed every time, he takes a poly in that area, and did you know, the examiners call each other about that particular candidate?
This is so wrong, so wrong....talk about corrupt?
and should be illegal!!!!!!!
With federal law agencies like the FBI, it seems that the results of "retests" granted after an initial failure virtually always confirm the original examiner's opinion.
However, I have heard of applicants for local law enforcement agencies such as the Los Angeles Police Department going on to be hired after passing a retest.
And with respect to intelligence agencies such as the CIA and NSA, which use the relevant/irrelevant technique, it's common for applicants to be accused of deception during their first polygraph session and then brought back for one or more follow-up sessions, which they actually can potentially pass.
Posted by Sully
- Aug 06, 2013, 10:39 AMA candidate goes to a state to apply for a job...
the examiner gives him the poly, and fails him
the candidate moves on to another agency to apply, (in the same state) and that polygrapher asks, "have you ever failed a poly before and if so, what was the question".
They should NOT be allowed to ask that question...
and when a candidate goes back for a 2nd test, they usually fail? Why, b/c passing a candidate after failing before, well, the examiner would have to justify then, why he/she failed that same candidate, right? So, he is automatically failed every time, he takes a poly in that area, and did you know, the examiners call each other about that particular candidate?
This is so wrong, so wrong....talk about corrupt?
and should be illegal!!!!!!!
the examiner gives him the poly, and fails him
the candidate moves on to another agency to apply, (in the same state) and that polygrapher asks, "have you ever failed a poly before and if so, what was the question".
They should NOT be allowed to ask that question...
and when a candidate goes back for a 2nd test, they usually fail? Why, b/c passing a candidate after failing before, well, the examiner would have to justify then, why he/she failed that same candidate, right? So, he is automatically failed every time, he takes a poly in that area, and did you know, the examiners call each other about that particular candidate?
This is so wrong, so wrong....talk about corrupt?
and should be illegal!!!!!!!