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Posted by George W. Maschke
- Oct 07, 2019, 01:54 PMQuote from: Tobias_Claren on Oct 04, 2019, 04:50 PMIs there accurate information about the experiments?
The late psychologist David T. Lykken mentions Backster's plant experiments at pp. 32-33 of the 2nd edition of his seminal treatise on polygraphy, A Tremor in the Blood: Uses and Abuses of the Lie Detector:
QuoteBackster achieved considerable celebrity some years ago in connection with his experiments with plants. Popular accounts had it that Backster had connected his philodendron to a lie detector, but what he actually did was to clamp a plant leaf between the two electrodes of the electrodermal channel, the part of the polygraph normally used to measure electrical changes in the skin produced by palmar sweating. One can imagine Backster's excitement when the polygraph pen first began to trace out what appeared to be responses. from the leaf, changes in electrical resistance not unlike those shown by human subjects. Further experiments persuaded him that these botanical reactions were related to events in the laboratory, even to the experimenter's unspoken thoughts concerning what he planned to do next to the plant! Backster went on to study, in a similar way, the reactions of fertile chicken eggs and, finally, aggregations of living human cells, including spermatozoa. His experiments along these exotic lines generated sufficient interest in scientific circles to lead to an invitation to present his findings at the 1975 meetings of the American Association for the Advancement of Science. Other investigators have been unable to repeat Backster's findings and he never managed to develop an experimental technique robust enough to work consistently in other people's hands.
Posted by Administrator
- Oct 07, 2019, 02:18 AMOff-topic replies have been moved to: this topic.
Posted by Tobias Claren
- Oct 04, 2019, 04:50 PMHello.
Is there accurate information about the experiments?
Which (note expensive) technology would you use today? I can not find a real used polygraph at ebay ;-) .
Do we need a professional 5-channel (or more) polygraph? Are there simple devices with the same or better sensitivity?
I believe such experiments could be used to educate people about the reality of paranormal phenomena (taboos of quantum physics).
On the street (Backster could do it on the plane), in YouTube videos (is there a successful YouTuber handling paranormal phenomena, not just bad or impossible to understand EVPs?) Etc..
For example, I plan online and street activism against sects like CSI(COP), GWUP etc (*).
In addition to scientific facts about the reality of a quantum physical beyond ( https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=en&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.vtf.de%2Fp73_1.shtml ) and rebirth (https : //at.virginia.edu/2lHExAK / https://at.virginia.edu/2lHExAK), these would be such experiments for videos and the street.
You "can not" kill little rabbits for such tests.
Decades ago, three little rabbits were taken on a submarine. The mother remained on land thousands of miles away.
The mother was connected to sensors and observed.
At the same time they killed their children aboard the submarine.
The mother should have shown a clear reaction. Like the well known story of the dog from Howard Carter after his death...
We can not reproduce that, but scientists could test it in slaughterhouses on pork and cattle.
Piglets and calves are slaughtered anyway for food.
Another experiment.
Two emotionally connected persons (e.g., a mother and her child) are connected to an EEG.
For example, The child wears a pair of glasses with flashing LEDs.
In the mother's brain, the flashes of light that the distant child sees can be measured.
That would be possible with a little effort also clubs, individuals, etc.
They might try to transfer Morse code or text as binary code ;-). That would be a spectacular experiment ...
But science ignores such easy-to-reproduce experiments...
If they still do, they get in trouble from their supervisor / dean ...
Even if they do it in their spare time.
Remember "Jack Parsons". He was the first rocket scientist, a pioneer.
Privately, he was an occultist. Celebrate wild occult parties, perhaps with "sex magic" etc ..
That's why the science community has been trying to get rid of him. To remove him from science.
I believe a YouTube channel showing such experiments and facts from the history of science could be relatively successful.
In addition, this person could also seek volunteers for parapsychological experiments.
For example, a repetition of the "Philip experiment", an attempt to create a "psychogone" (poltergeist):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_experiment
Or the influence on a person by a group of persons. As in this attested (sheriff etc.) case:
benjaminradford.com/investigations/psychic-detective-interviews/
As target person, the group could choose a radical known debunker on TV.
Is there a "debunker" and possibly a member or sympathizer of "CSI" on US television?
How do Kaku, Degrasse Tyson, etc. think about paranormal phenomena?
The world famous physicist Sir Professor dr. Roger Penrose is convinced of the body/soul dualism:
https://www.quantumconsciousness.org
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mind
He assumes that the consciousness remains after death.
Or Putin ... With a criminal despot like Putin, you do not have to worry about having "too much success" ( (✖╭╮✖) ).
Try to send him headache, vision problems, confusion etc. But also words or sentences he should pronounce. For example, "I am a reptilian" ;-D . Or Putin, "I am a criminal (mafia, financier Bill Browder says Vladimir Putin is worth $200 billion, Bezos owns "only" 131 billion dollars...).
The group could and should publicly announce this before. Strean the sessions as a live stream. So that no one can claim that these people would only claim they were responsible.
I also see no legal risk. After the witch burnings, no prosecutor or court will dare to accuse or convict anyone for doing so...
The perfect crime ... But the hype, especially in the case of success (it's enough to confuse Putin during a public speech...) could cause a rethink in the science community and society and the media.
Slowly but surely.
Or the attempt to get a date from the future. A terrorist attack, or a death anniversary of a celebrity, or a natural disaster etc..
I know that sounds a bit crazy now. Crazier than the telepathy experiments etc. But there are some good reports on accurate foresight, or future information from the hereafter.
For example, an exact day of death of a person. Or the report of the second near-death experience (suicide attempt, because her first nde was so good) of a woman in a documentary.
A voice from the "white tunnel" said to her, she has one more task to fulfill. She became a dying companion.
Look at this here:
"Ouija by Prof Dr Eckhard Kruse": https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bpv.ch%2Fblog%2Fouija-von-prof-dr-eckhard-kruse%2F&sandbox=1
This professor has no doubt that Ouja or similar methods is just an ideomotor phenomenon.
But his results are too good, too many details. That does not come from the "subconscious mind".
It would be worth trying to learn data from the future. What do you have to lose? Nothing.
OK, for scientists this is "forbidden". This is heresy for the "Scientific Community".
Professor Eckhard Kruse has the courage to do it. Even in a "PSI club" ...
Does anyone here believe that Kruse is lying and cheating?
*)
These people are not "skeptics" (real skeptics are open-minded, they are ideologically biased), these are radical deniers.
They have the power in the science editorial offices of the public-law television and radio (over $ 9 billion budget per year).
In a country with ~ 82.8 million inhabitants (a quarter of the US population), half of the NASA budget.
According to the court ruling, Facebook may not delete comments in this country that are not in violation of the law (or are spam).
Reason, FB has a "state-like monopoly", and is therefore directly bound to the Constitution (no censorship). Not just subordinate laws (civil law, criminal law ...) Like a public authority.
What does this have to do with science programs on TV and radio?
These stations also upload their programs to YouTube.
If I absolutely objectively and topic-related not refusing about extraterrestrial visitors or paranormal phenomena with documents (scientific facts ...) write, that will be deleted shortly afterwards. If Facebook can not delete comments because of "state-like monopoly", then it must not be a public-law institution with more than $ 9 billion a year from compulsory fees.
Every citizen with an apartment / house has to pay $ 19.21 a month. Once per apartment (roommate and family members etc. do not pay).
For example, They claimed that the world famous Belgian UFO photo was a fake because the photographer claimed that.
What a strange "logic". First, the "skeptics" claim he's lying because he says it's real. Then they simply swallow his assertion when he says he faked it.
Scientists, experts, forensic scientists ... continue to say that photo is not a fake. Why? Because the photographer explained in detail how he allegedly faked it!
And it was impossible to imitate it!
Exactly the same conditions (time, weather ...), exactly the same camera, exactly the same film type, exactly the same settings of the camera. In addition, he claimed that he used a "flashlight bulb".
It was absolutely impossible to take a photo that was similar to the original.
Why did he lie? Why not...!
Maybe he wanted attention again. At the same time, he was able to distinguish himself (after the constant allegations of faking the photo) as someone who deceived experts from NASA, etc. worldwide.
Is there accurate information about the experiments?
Which (note expensive) technology would you use today? I can not find a real used polygraph at ebay ;-) .
Do we need a professional 5-channel (or more) polygraph? Are there simple devices with the same or better sensitivity?
I believe such experiments could be used to educate people about the reality of paranormal phenomena (taboos of quantum physics).
On the street (Backster could do it on the plane), in YouTube videos (is there a successful YouTuber handling paranormal phenomena, not just bad or impossible to understand EVPs?) Etc..
For example, I plan online and street activism against sects like CSI(COP), GWUP etc (*).
In addition to scientific facts about the reality of a quantum physical beyond ( https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=en&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.vtf.de%2Fp73_1.shtml ) and rebirth (https : //at.virginia.edu/2lHExAK / https://at.virginia.edu/2lHExAK), these would be such experiments for videos and the street.
You "can not" kill little rabbits for such tests.
Decades ago, three little rabbits were taken on a submarine. The mother remained on land thousands of miles away.
The mother was connected to sensors and observed.
At the same time they killed their children aboard the submarine.
The mother should have shown a clear reaction. Like the well known story of the dog from Howard Carter after his death...
We can not reproduce that, but scientists could test it in slaughterhouses on pork and cattle.
Piglets and calves are slaughtered anyway for food.
Another experiment.
Two emotionally connected persons (e.g., a mother and her child) are connected to an EEG.
For example, The child wears a pair of glasses with flashing LEDs.
In the mother's brain, the flashes of light that the distant child sees can be measured.
That would be possible with a little effort also clubs, individuals, etc.
They might try to transfer Morse code or text as binary code ;-). That would be a spectacular experiment ...
But science ignores such easy-to-reproduce experiments...
If they still do, they get in trouble from their supervisor / dean ...
Even if they do it in their spare time.
Remember "Jack Parsons". He was the first rocket scientist, a pioneer.
Privately, he was an occultist. Celebrate wild occult parties, perhaps with "sex magic" etc ..
That's why the science community has been trying to get rid of him. To remove him from science.
I believe a YouTube channel showing such experiments and facts from the history of science could be relatively successful.
In addition, this person could also seek volunteers for parapsychological experiments.
For example, a repetition of the "Philip experiment", an attempt to create a "psychogone" (poltergeist):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_experiment
Or the influence on a person by a group of persons. As in this attested (sheriff etc.) case:
benjaminradford.com/investigations/psychic-detective-interviews/
As target person, the group could choose a radical known debunker on TV.
Is there a "debunker" and possibly a member or sympathizer of "CSI" on US television?
How do Kaku, Degrasse Tyson, etc. think about paranormal phenomena?
The world famous physicist Sir Professor dr. Roger Penrose is convinced of the body/soul dualism:
https://www.quantumconsciousness.org
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mind
He assumes that the consciousness remains after death.
Or Putin ... With a criminal despot like Putin, you do not have to worry about having "too much success" ( (✖╭╮✖) ).
Try to send him headache, vision problems, confusion etc. But also words or sentences he should pronounce. For example, "I am a reptilian" ;-D . Or Putin, "I am a criminal (mafia, financier Bill Browder says Vladimir Putin is worth $200 billion, Bezos owns "only" 131 billion dollars...).
The group could and should publicly announce this before. Strean the sessions as a live stream. So that no one can claim that these people would only claim they were responsible.
I also see no legal risk. After the witch burnings, no prosecutor or court will dare to accuse or convict anyone for doing so...
The perfect crime ... But the hype, especially in the case of success (it's enough to confuse Putin during a public speech...) could cause a rethink in the science community and society and the media.
Slowly but surely.
Or the attempt to get a date from the future. A terrorist attack, or a death anniversary of a celebrity, or a natural disaster etc..
I know that sounds a bit crazy now. Crazier than the telepathy experiments etc. But there are some good reports on accurate foresight, or future information from the hereafter.
For example, an exact day of death of a person. Or the report of the second near-death experience (suicide attempt, because her first nde was so good) of a woman in a documentary.
A voice from the "white tunnel" said to her, she has one more task to fulfill. She became a dying companion.
Look at this here:
"Ouija by Prof Dr Eckhard Kruse": https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bpv.ch%2Fblog%2Fouija-von-prof-dr-eckhard-kruse%2F&sandbox=1
This professor has no doubt that Ouja or similar methods is just an ideomotor phenomenon.
But his results are too good, too many details. That does not come from the "subconscious mind".
It would be worth trying to learn data from the future. What do you have to lose? Nothing.
OK, for scientists this is "forbidden". This is heresy for the "Scientific Community".
Professor Eckhard Kruse has the courage to do it. Even in a "PSI club" ...
Does anyone here believe that Kruse is lying and cheating?
*)
These people are not "skeptics" (real skeptics are open-minded, they are ideologically biased), these are radical deniers.
They have the power in the science editorial offices of the public-law television and radio (over $ 9 billion budget per year).
In a country with ~ 82.8 million inhabitants (a quarter of the US population), half of the NASA budget.
According to the court ruling, Facebook may not delete comments in this country that are not in violation of the law (or are spam).
Reason, FB has a "state-like monopoly", and is therefore directly bound to the Constitution (no censorship). Not just subordinate laws (civil law, criminal law ...) Like a public authority.
What does this have to do with science programs on TV and radio?
These stations also upload their programs to YouTube.
If I absolutely objectively and topic-related not refusing about extraterrestrial visitors or paranormal phenomena with documents (scientific facts ...) write, that will be deleted shortly afterwards. If Facebook can not delete comments because of "state-like monopoly", then it must not be a public-law institution with more than $ 9 billion a year from compulsory fees.
Every citizen with an apartment / house has to pay $ 19.21 a month. Once per apartment (roommate and family members etc. do not pay).
For example, They claimed that the world famous Belgian UFO photo was a fake because the photographer claimed that.
What a strange "logic". First, the "skeptics" claim he's lying because he says it's real. Then they simply swallow his assertion when he says he faked it.
Scientists, experts, forensic scientists ... continue to say that photo is not a fake. Why? Because the photographer explained in detail how he allegedly faked it!
And it was impossible to imitate it!
Exactly the same conditions (time, weather ...), exactly the same camera, exactly the same film type, exactly the same settings of the camera. In addition, he claimed that he used a "flashlight bulb".
It was absolutely impossible to take a photo that was similar to the original.
Why did he lie? Why not...!
Maybe he wanted attention again. At the same time, he was able to distinguish himself (after the constant allegations of faking the photo) as someone who deceived experts from NASA, etc. worldwide.
Posted by Ex Member
- Jul 08, 2013, 03:21 PMHe was quite a guy. RIP Cleve.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Jul 08, 2013, 05:22 AMOn Monday, 1 July 2013, Cleve Backster died at the age of 89 following a long illness:
https://antipolygraph.org/blog/2013/07/08/cleve-backster-r-i-p/
https://antipolygraph.org/blog/2013/07/08/cleve-backster-r-i-p/
Posted by Ben
- Feb 01, 2012, 03:26 PMWhile some had difficulty replicating Backster's experiments, it's probably for the wrong reasons. I have been able to replicate them, finding plants respond to human emotion, as part of an honors thesis I did at UC Berkeley. The investigators that are cited on skepdic actually didn't follow Backster's protocols, and thus introduced other confounds that they didn't consider. So their bad science makes it look like Backster's findings were invalid.
I've had to take a bit of a hiatus on this line of research while working on my PhD, but I'm planning to collect more data in order to publish.
Not that it influences the truth of anything, but Backster is a kind, well-meaning fellow. Obviously here you're invested in disproving the validity of polygraph use, which I don't have enough background in to dispute. I also believe one reason why he doesn't talk about his work with the CIA is he's not supposed to.
That notwithstanding, the plant research is indeed valid, and hopefully there will be some more data coming out in the next year or two.
I've had to take a bit of a hiatus on this line of research while working on my PhD, but I'm planning to collect more data in order to publish.
Not that it influences the truth of anything, but Backster is a kind, well-meaning fellow. Obviously here you're invested in disproving the validity of polygraph use, which I don't have enough background in to dispute. I also believe one reason why he doesn't talk about his work with the CIA is he's not supposed to.
That notwithstanding, the plant research is indeed valid, and hopefully there will be some more data coming out in the next year or two.
Posted by des fitzgerald
- Sep 25, 2011, 03:30 PMThe ouijha board is supposed to tell the truth from your subconscious mind - also the penfulum - but is it possible to quiz one's own subconscious USING A LIE DETECTOR??? Surely you would get the truth?
? Hope you don't consider this a silly question.
YOURS FAITHFULLY, DES, DUBLIN, SUN.SEPT.25, 2011.
EMAIL: des48fitz@gmail.com
***************************************
? Hope you don't consider this a silly question. YOURS FAITHFULLY, DES, DUBLIN, SUN.SEPT.25, 2011.
EMAIL: des48fitz@gmail.com
***************************************
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Nov 26, 2006, 04:53 PMThe News for the Soul radio program, which currently offers for sale via its website a "Spoonbending Kit," also makes available at no cost some interviews with Cleve Backster, the father of the CIA polygraph program, which Agency he only mentions in passing, preferring to speak instead on the mind-reading abilities of plants and other organisms. The following streaming broadcasts are in RealPlayer format:
http://www.newsforthesoul.com/ram/show52.ram
http://www.newsforthesoul.com/ram/cleve2.ram
http://www.newsforthesoul.com/ram/cleve-april2006.ram
http://www.newsforthesoul.com/ram/cleve-sept2007.ram
http://www.newsforthesoul.com/ram/show52.ram
http://www.newsforthesoul.com/ram/cleve2.ram
http://www.newsforthesoul.com/ram/cleve-april2006.ram
http://www.newsforthesoul.com/ram/cleve-sept2007.ram
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Feb 09, 2002, 07:08 PM
Grover Cleveland Backster, Jr.
Cleve Backster, who instituted the Central Intelligence Agency's polygraph program in 1948, also has some curious ideas about plants (in particular, that they can perceive human thoughts and intentions), as the following article on Skepdic.com explains:
http://skepdic.com/plants.html
Backster seems to believe that there is a conspiracy in the scientific community to discredit his revolutionary discovery that plants can read human thought. But scientists have been unable to reproduce his results under controlled conditions.
Backster also originated the numerical scoring of polygraph charts, devised the widely used polygraph Zone Comparison "Test," and founded the Backster School of Lie Detection in San Diego, possibly the oldest private polygraph school still in operation. But as it turns out, lie detection has little more scientific basis than do Backster's cockamamie notions about plant perception. (For a thorough debunking of the lie detector, see AntiPolygraph.org's free e-book, The Lie Behind the Lie Detector (1 mb PDF).