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Posted by Bill_Brown
- Jun 15, 2012, 04:04 PMStefano,
We agree on several points, and I don't "Hate" sex offenders myself. I do hold them responsible for their acts. I disagree with our justice system requiring lifetime probation and polygraphs. As with any other crime, there should be a set number of months or years dependent on the seriousness of the offense. The exception to this would be repeat offenders that do not learn from past behaviors. Some jurisdictions have these guidelines.
An offender that is progressing in treatment should be given more responsibility in interacting with members of his family and the interactions should be monitored to insure there are no violations. The family should also be in treatment to learn how to protect against further victimization and how to recognize the thinking errors of their family member Again the treatment provider should have the final word on this, not a probation/parole officer and definitely not a polygraph examiner.
As I have often repeated, polygraph is only a tool and should never be used as a final determinant of any life changing decision. Probation/parole should conduct inquiries and find facts along with the treatment providers recommendations. Polygraph only points these individuals in the direction of a possible infraction, and it is the responsibility of the rest of that team to find the true facts. Admissions in a polygraph examination to violations of treatment or probation should be used and the offender should be held accountable. This is why I audio/video all examination I conduct. There is no debate if this condition is met.
Yes we do agree that sexual offenders are humans and should be treated fairly, not as less than human and stigmatized further. They are accountable and they have made victims of their families and significant others. A family should be treated with the utmost respect and all efforts to assist them should be made by "we the people" and all government agencies. They deserve no less.
A side note: I was involved in sex offender treatment as a polygraph examiner in my early career. I am currently not involved with treatment or containment of sex offenders.
We agree on several points, and I don't "Hate" sex offenders myself. I do hold them responsible for their acts. I disagree with our justice system requiring lifetime probation and polygraphs. As with any other crime, there should be a set number of months or years dependent on the seriousness of the offense. The exception to this would be repeat offenders that do not learn from past behaviors. Some jurisdictions have these guidelines.
An offender that is progressing in treatment should be given more responsibility in interacting with members of his family and the interactions should be monitored to insure there are no violations. The family should also be in treatment to learn how to protect against further victimization and how to recognize the thinking errors of their family member Again the treatment provider should have the final word on this, not a probation/parole officer and definitely not a polygraph examiner.
As I have often repeated, polygraph is only a tool and should never be used as a final determinant of any life changing decision. Probation/parole should conduct inquiries and find facts along with the treatment providers recommendations. Polygraph only points these individuals in the direction of a possible infraction, and it is the responsibility of the rest of that team to find the true facts. Admissions in a polygraph examination to violations of treatment or probation should be used and the offender should be held accountable. This is why I audio/video all examination I conduct. There is no debate if this condition is met.
Yes we do agree that sexual offenders are humans and should be treated fairly, not as less than human and stigmatized further. They are accountable and they have made victims of their families and significant others. A family should be treated with the utmost respect and all efforts to assist them should be made by "we the people" and all government agencies. They deserve no less.
A side note: I was involved in sex offender treatment as a polygraph examiner in my early career. I am currently not involved with treatment or containment of sex offenders.
Posted by stefano
- Jun 15, 2012, 01:13 PMBill,
After some reflection, I find that this is somewhat idealistic. I'm very aware of the containment model, where probation/parole officers work in concert with treatment providers and polygraphers. Ostensibly, it sounds like a nice idea, but in practice, you have many probation/parole officers who are complete jerks, treatment providers whose methodologies are still embryonic and many polygraphers who possess unprofessional attributes demonstrated by the vile and silly comments in this forum. There seems to be an imbalance in this triad as more weight appears to be given to the polygrapher and his opinions, often resulting in revocation, therein lies the injustice.
So, yes, the offender must take responsibility, but they are human, and humans can only endure so many onerous conditions, which can reach a point where they contribute to the pathology rather than the treatment.
In order to reintegrate them into society, they must be have some remnant of human dignity, not stigmatized, as many in society would prefer that they be put into concentration camps. I have long believed that those who hate sex offenders the most, are the ones who have their own share of skeletons in the closet.
After some reflection, I find that this is somewhat idealistic. I'm very aware of the containment model, where probation/parole officers work in concert with treatment providers and polygraphers. Ostensibly, it sounds like a nice idea, but in practice, you have many probation/parole officers who are complete jerks, treatment providers whose methodologies are still embryonic and many polygraphers who possess unprofessional attributes demonstrated by the vile and silly comments in this forum. There seems to be an imbalance in this triad as more weight appears to be given to the polygrapher and his opinions, often resulting in revocation, therein lies the injustice.
So, yes, the offender must take responsibility, but they are human, and humans can only endure so many onerous conditions, which can reach a point where they contribute to the pathology rather than the treatment.
In order to reintegrate them into society, they must be have some remnant of human dignity, not stigmatized, as many in society would prefer that they be put into concentration camps. I have long believed that those who hate sex offenders the most, are the ones who have their own share of skeletons in the closet.
Posted by stefano
- Jun 13, 2012, 09:48 PMBill,
This is very well put, sane and thought provoking, thankyou.
This is very well put, sane and thought provoking, thankyou.
Posted by Bill_Brown
- Jun 13, 2012, 09:28 PMYou may wish to think about the "Victims". Holding yourself up as a victim indicates to me that you need protection. The OFFENDER that created this nightmare is the one you are holding out to be a victim (of the system). I have sympathy for you and your family and hold your significant other responsible for your current plight. He and he alone is responsible for this victimization of you and your family. Let him bear that load, walk away from any guilt, you did nothing wrong, he is totally responsible for his actions.
Treatment providers and probation/parole officers are there to protect you and the rest of society from further victimization.
Treatment providers and probation/parole officers are there to protect you and the rest of society from further victimization.
Posted by Madmom
- Jun 13, 2012, 09:00 PMDarn... I forgot to add the victims to the poll...the victims are in our family so they suffer the "no contact," what a nightmare for the coming and going of everyone! UGH! 8 yrs later..they work up to being able to have contact and then they take it away...Even they think this is stupid! Go figure... and no one listens to them. PS. We like to call ourselves survivors now!
Posted by Madmom
- Jun 13, 2012, 08:47 PMPlease take the poll...it will be interesting! Add comments if you can...
Posted by Madmom
- Jun 13, 2012, 08:25 PMThere are so many people that are in this mess, you would think that eventually there will be more of "us" than "them".
I am talking about everyone, including all the families and children of the convicted ones who are being hurt by these ridiculous penalties! Let people move on and recover. Quit this lifetime probation, polygraph, registration nonsense! With all the websites and complaining why are we still losing? I suffer in silence all the time.
I wish I could get together more families and start informing legislators what it does to the innocent loved ones trapped in this hell with the (I hate to use this label) "SO".
I am talking about everyone, including all the families and children of the convicted ones who are being hurt by these ridiculous penalties! Let people move on and recover. Quit this lifetime probation, polygraph, registration nonsense! With all the websites and complaining why are we still losing? I suffer in silence all the time.
I wish I could get together more families and start informing legislators what it does to the innocent loved ones trapped in this hell with the (I hate to use this label) "SO".Posted by soGirlfriend
- Jun 13, 2012, 02:30 AMJust read this thread. I have an idea, and hopefully you guys can help me flesh it out more. What about making an informational post for Facebook? If someone could find a petion website or just start our own petion (not sure exactly how that works electronically but might know someone that does) we could add that to the end. Topics can spread like wildfire on Facebook. At the very least we could spread awareness of the problems of polygraph testing. Just a thought.
Posted by Twoblock
- Apr 05, 2012, 04:40 PManon12345
Other than getting a face to face with poluted-ticians, let's have some of your brilliant ideas. Maybe they would be more constructive than this. If you don't know it yet, elected officials only believe in numbers. One idea maybe would be to start a petition. I belong to a few websites that send hundreds of thousands of petitions covering different things of a conservative nature to Washington. We get results. However, none of these websites are interested in tackling the abolishment of the poly. Just thought I would throw out another constructive idea.
Other than getting a face to face with poluted-ticians, let's have some of your brilliant ideas. Maybe they would be more constructive than this. If you don't know it yet, elected officials only believe in numbers. One idea maybe would be to start a petition. I belong to a few websites that send hundreds of thousands of petitions covering different things of a conservative nature to Washington. We get results. However, none of these websites are interested in tackling the abolishment of the poly. Just thought I would throw out another constructive idea.
Posted by anon12345
- Apr 05, 2012, 04:09 AMQuote from: Twoblock on Apr 01, 2012, 12:08 PManon 12345How about we have some constructive Ideas? Maybe that will get the ball rolling?
I assumed that you were still talking about abolishing the polygraph. I assure you I have nothing to gain or lose by fighting to abolish the poly. I have been fighting government corruption and control for over 50 years. Good luck to you if you are trying to get a face to face meeting with ANY of your Washington poluted-ticians. They don't give a damn what you or their other constituantes want. They are only interested in pushing their own agendas. Your time would be better spent in trying to mobilize the masses to kick them out of office and put in new ones who will become idiots after a little while in office.
BTW - I draw no party lines when it comes to corruption.
Posted by Twoblock
- Apr 01, 2012, 12:08 PManon 12345
I assumed that you were still talking about abolishing the polygraph. I assure you I have nothing to gain or lose by fighting to abolish the poly. I have been fighting government corruption and control for over 50 years. Good luck to you if you are trying to get a face to face meeting with ANY of your Washington poluted-ticians. They don't give a damn what you or their other constituantes want. They are only interested in pushing their own agendas. Your time would be better spent in trying to mobilize the masses to kick them out of office and put in new ones who will become idiots after a little while in office.
BTW - I draw no party lines when it comes to corruption.
I assumed that you were still talking about abolishing the polygraph. I assure you I have nothing to gain or lose by fighting to abolish the poly. I have been fighting government corruption and control for over 50 years. Good luck to you if you are trying to get a face to face meeting with ANY of your Washington poluted-ticians. They don't give a damn what you or their other constituantes want. They are only interested in pushing their own agendas. Your time would be better spent in trying to mobilize the masses to kick them out of office and put in new ones who will become idiots after a little while in office.
BTW - I draw no party lines when it comes to corruption.
Posted by anon12345
- Apr 01, 2012, 12:47 AMQuote from: Twoblock on Mar 31, 2012, 08:15 PManon12345Well I wasn't like talking about letters, i was talking more like in front of their arses now I know most of you have a lot to lose I'm talking about ppl here who know their Innocent and beat the system!!
Forget it. It has been in front of politicains. The only way they would be interested is if thay had to take and pass one in order to keep their office. I have taken them down this road and they won't even answer my letters.
Posted by Twoblock
- Mar 31, 2012, 08:15 PManon12345
Forget it. It has been in front of politicains. The only way they would be interested is if thay had to take and pass one in order to keep their office. I have taken them down this road and they won't even answer my letters.
Forget it. It has been in front of politicains. The only way they would be interested is if thay had to take and pass one in order to keep their office. I have taken them down this road and they won't even answer my letters.
Posted by anon12345
- Mar 27, 2012, 08:36 PMYeah probably so, but If I see any opening we need to jump on it. I just wish their were some Ideas to throw around...the only thing I can think of is to get in front of the Politicians!!
Posted by stefano
- Mar 27, 2012, 05:31 PMQuote from: anon12345 on Mar 27, 2012, 09:55 AMI mean it's almost like people are waiting for something to happen, we all know that just won't happen!!Anon,
I don't see the polygraph being abolished anytime soon. But what you can do is take away its "power" by exposing the folly--just as Toto did when he pulled back the curtain.