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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by stefano
- Dec 10, 2011, 09:15 PMQuote from: Bill_Brown on Dec 10, 2011, 07:37 PMI resign and afford you the pleasure of victory.Watch out figs! It's the old Cassius Clay rope-a-dope.
8-)
Posted by Bill_Brown
- Dec 10, 2011, 07:37 PMfigs,
You are 100% correct and I'm sure persons can always pass their polygraph examinations using countermeasures. I resign and afford you the pleasure of victory.
You are 100% correct and I'm sure persons can always pass their polygraph examinations using countermeasures. I resign and afford you the pleasure of victory.
Posted by figs
- Dec 10, 2011, 11:37 AMQuote from: Bill_Brown on Dec 10, 2011, 12:37 AMYou are behind on published countermeasure markers. We do have published makers that are not available on the internet and will not be divulged to members of the general public. A lot of research has been done that I am sure you are not aware of.
Your saying u have secret research proving what u want it 2 prove. Im sure you want people 2 think that.
I have secret research proving Im Elvis. Keys 2 Graceland, pls.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Dec 10, 2011, 02:47 AMQuote from: Bill_Brown on Dec 10, 2011, 12:37 AMMental countermeasures are not detectable because i cannot read your mind.
True. And bear in mind that by the same token, you cannot detect deception with the polygraph, because neither you nor the polygraph can read minds.
Posted by Bill_Brown
- Dec 10, 2011, 12:37 AMfigs,
You are behind on published countermeasure markers. We do have published makers that are not available on the internet and will not be divulged to members of the general public. A lot of research has been done that I am sure you are not aware of.
I also gave a personal opinion, and it is not in keeping with some of the opinions of some of my colleagues. Many are changing to the R&I Technique with successive hurdles approach. Others are using the DLC, many are staying with the standardized old techniques.
Mental countermeasures are not detectable because i cannot read your mind. Can you prevent a reaction occurring when you are not truthful to a relevant question? If so what CM do you use to stop a reaction?
This is not meant to be insulting or demeaning, only honest discussion.
You are behind on published countermeasure markers. We do have published makers that are not available on the internet and will not be divulged to members of the general public. A lot of research has been done that I am sure you are not aware of.
I also gave a personal opinion, and it is not in keeping with some of the opinions of some of my colleagues. Many are changing to the R&I Technique with successive hurdles approach. Others are using the DLC, many are staying with the standardized old techniques.
Mental countermeasures are not detectable because i cannot read your mind. Can you prevent a reaction occurring when you are not truthful to a relevant question? If so what CM do you use to stop a reaction?
This is not meant to be insulting or demeaning, only honest discussion.
Posted by figs
- Dec 09, 2011, 05:29 PMQuote from: Bill_Brown on Dec 09, 2011, 01:23 PMStefano,
Many examiners do look at them in an attempt to detect countermeasures, I personally will look at the breathing and look for some of the "markers" of countermeasures.
The only publishd CM "markers" are when a respons looks too consistant across repeated uses of teh same question.
As long as pple vary there CMs a bit, you hav no way 2 detect. All you can do is make acusations and occasionaly get a confession.
Posted by Bill_Brown
- Dec 09, 2011, 01:23 PMStefano,
We are learning that the breathing patterns displayed are the least accurate portion of the data collected. Many examiners do look at them in an attempt to detect countermeasures, I personally will look at the breathing and look for some of the "markers" of countermeasures.
As you state, mental countermeasures are the most difficult to detect. My experiments using mental countermeasures have demonstrated an inability to detect them in most cases. The saving grace is observing reactions to relevant questions while also observing them on control questions. We can then switch to a R&I with successive hurdles.
We are learning that the breathing patterns displayed are the least accurate portion of the data collected. Many examiners do look at them in an attempt to detect countermeasures, I personally will look at the breathing and look for some of the "markers" of countermeasures.
As you state, mental countermeasures are the most difficult to detect. My experiments using mental countermeasures have demonstrated an inability to detect them in most cases. The saving grace is observing reactions to relevant questions while also observing them on control questions. We can then switch to a R&I with successive hurdles.
Posted by stefano
- Dec 07, 2011, 10:31 PMQuote from: bearcat1 on Dec 02, 2011, 10:40 PMI'm going to breath as naturally as possible and hope for the best.I would not even worry about your breathing. If he makes any comments about your breathing being "abnormal", just say: "I have no explanation for that." From my experience, if mental countermeasures are properly applied, the breathing and GSR follow accordingly.
Posted by stefano
- Dec 07, 2011, 10:26 PMQuote from: bearcat1 on Dec 02, 2011, 10:40 PMit may be difficult to breath involuntarily with having such a focus of the last examination being on my breathing.Bill, let's be real here. Why would a polygraphist share such a thing with an examinee? IMHO it is a ploy. Polygraphists have become so paranoid about countermeasures, they are even hallucinating them. I believe this bit about "abnormal breathing" was simply tossed at him so as to watch his reaction in a desperate attempt to confirm a suspicion of breathing countermeasures.
Posted by The Salton Sea
- Dec 02, 2011, 10:40 PMMr. Brown,
Thanks for replying. I'm not attempting to beat the box and am confident that I can pass straight forward, but when im retested it may be with the same examiner and it may be difficult to breath involuntarily with having such a focus of the last examination being on my breathing. I'm going to breath as naturally as possible and hope for the best. Thanks for your input.
Thanks for replying. I'm not attempting to beat the box and am confident that I can pass straight forward, but when im retested it may be with the same examiner and it may be difficult to breath involuntarily with having such a focus of the last examination being on my breathing. I'm going to breath as naturally as possible and hope for the best. Thanks for your input.
Posted by Bill_Brown
- Nov 23, 2011, 12:37 PMMedical textbooks suggest that normal respiratory rate for adults is only 12 breaths per minute at rest. Older textbooks often provide even smaller values (e.g., 8-10 breaths per minute). Most adults breathe much faster (about 15-20 breaths per minute) than their normal respiratory rate. Respiratory rates in the sick are even higher.
http://www.normalbreathing.com/images/normal-breathing-pattern-time.png
http://www.normalbreathing.com/images/normal-breathing-pattern-time.png
Posted by The Salton Sea
- Nov 22, 2011, 02:16 PMI recently took a pre-emp poly for a metro dept and the examiner stated that my breathing wasn't normal. Can anyone share some insight as to what normal or acceptable breathing looks like? Is it supposed to change over the course of questioning or stay consistent.
Thanks.
Thanks.