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Posted by xenonman
- Sep 10, 2016, 05:49 AMQuote. Recruiters don't know what the f*** they're talking about
Apparently this holds true for recruiters in the military, just like those from Langley.
Don't forget that, in any case, the recruiter isn't the person that will adjudicate your suitability for TS/SCI, nor run your BI.
Posted by xenonman
- Sep 10, 2016, 05:41 AMQuote from: quickfix on Sep 16, 2012, 09:25 AMMilitary recruiters are notorious for telling prospective recruits to withhold any prior drug use. If a recruit is later considered for a TS clearance, an SF-86 is required. The recruit unfortunately follows the recruiter's advice and fails to list past drug use, as required on the SF-86. During the background investigation, former neighbors, classmates, friends, and employers are interviewed. That's when the past drug use is identified. The more individuals who confirm the drug use, the more credible the information is. Since the recruit has already submitted the SF-86, the form has been falsified. Not only has the recruit now committed a felony, but infrequent past drug use that might not otherwise be a disqualifier for a TS clearance is now irrelevant. The recruit is held accountable for falsifying the SF-86, not the idiot recruiter who gave him the advice. Blaming it on the recruiter is not an acceptable excuse. Now that you've been cautioned, make your decision accordingly.
So, apparently, military recruiters have about the same level of integrity as those from Langley?
Posted by Hhaarryy32
- Jul 31, 2016, 07:21 PMAny update with what happened in your situation veryworried? Just curious because I am in a similar situation.
Posted by quickfix
- Sep 16, 2012, 09:25 AMMilitary recruiters are notorious for telling prospective recruits to withhold any prior drug use. If a recruit is later considered for a TS clearance, an SF-86 is required. The recruit unfortunately follows the recruiter's advice and fails to list past drug use, as required on the SF-86. During the background investigation, former neighbors, classmates, friends, and employers are interviewed. That's when the past drug use is identified. The more individuals who confirm the drug use, the more credible the information is. Since the recruit has already submitted the SF-86, the form has been falsified. Not only has the recruit now committed a felony, but infrequent past drug use that might not otherwise be a disqualifier for a TS clearance is now irrelevant. The recruit is held accountable for falsifying the SF-86, not the idiot recruiter who gave him the advice. Blaming it on the recruiter is not an acceptable excuse. Now that you've been cautioned, make your decision accordingly.
Posted by Guest
- Sep 16, 2012, 03:38 AMOkay, clearly you guys have wrapped up your cases one way or another now. But to anyone who may be getting in, tell the truth up front. Recruiters don't know what the f*** they're talking about most of the time, and will also say whatever they think will make you sign the dotted line. Ive been there, and was extremely misguided let's say. If you have done drugs, been suspended, or done other "stupid kid things" I can guarantee there's a waiver for it. Do I care if you smoked weed in high school? A little yes, but that's not making me block your clearance. Do I care if you smoked weed then tried to cover it up? You better believe I do, because if you're willing to lie about that stuff what else is lies, or what else will you lie about? If you're an honest person with integrity who can say "I made a mistake" that's not the end of the world, everyone screws up. If you mess up and try to sweep it under the rug, then you do not look like someone who deserves to be trusted with sensitive information. Food for thought.
Posted by OMG!
- Dec 22, 2010, 05:49 PMQuoteRe: Failed FBI poly, what happens next?
Reply #16 - Today at 10:44pm G Scalabr wrote on Apr 1st, 2005 at 8:53am:
Quote:
He wanted to dictate the statement and basically wanted me to admit to using countermeasures, then he would schedule me for a retest.
From the tone of your post, it appears that you wisely did not fall for this ploy. When a polygraph operator requests that you make a written statement (especially one worded like you described), it's not because he feels that things are inconclusive and he wants you to continue in the process with another operator.
Instead, it is overwhelming likely that the examiner is planning to make a written report to disqualify you (for either deception or an arbitrary determination that you employed countermeasures). He is looking for a written confession to help solidify his case. You were smart not to give him one.
Nothing good that can come from making a written admission once a polygraph session has begun. NOTHING.
This is one of the most important pieces of advice that anyone facing a polygraph should know. Failing a polygraph "test" is extremely negative for one's career potential in law enforcement. Still, having a failed polygraph on your record pales in comparison to having a folder sitting in FBI HQ file drawer with a signed statement from an FBI Special Agent stating that you admitted to him that you attempted to beat the pre-employment screening polygraph. Worse yet is when the above sheet of paper is immediately followed by a note in your handwriting admitting to the above.
It is our experience that applicants who fall for the polygrapher's "I am here to help you get hired act—it is you and I against 'headquarters'..." will sign almost anything after a reassuring statement informing the applicant that this is in his best interests. Regrettably, those who go along with this act are often caused irreparable damage.
This is exactly what happened to me and now I want to join the military (as an Officer) but I don't know how it will affect me. Please help.
Posted by omgzduhhh
- Dec 21, 2010, 08:33 PMAre you going to admit to it?
If so I think I will be doing the same thing, I've got an appointment with a recruiter next monday (a different recruiter) to get this taken care of.
Best of luck.
If so I think I will be doing the same thing, I've got an appointment with a recruiter next monday (a different recruiter) to get this taken care of.
Best of luck.
Posted by veryworried
- Dec 21, 2010, 08:29 PMQuoteIm having the same problem. I lied about being suspended, and expelled from high school. It was stupid stuff I did when I was younger and my recruiter told me if I dont say anything they wont find out. I've also gone to court but it was cleared off of my record and I wasnt charged with anything it was a type of 'teen court' where it was all teenagers doing the 'attorney' and 'judging' and whatnot kind've for first time offenders. I had to write an essay and do 20 hours of community service. I really doubt that they'll go that deep into it, one of the other students who was involved in the same issue and had to go to court with me is now working at an army hospital under federal clearance. She said they didnt find anything at all about it.
-shrug- my shoplifting offense was much of the same effect...i had a committee of people in the community (one gal was my biology teacher) who i had to talk about what i had done and why i had done it a couple of times; this all took place in a health center. however, despite the fact it was "hidden" or "expunged" or whatever you want to refer to it as, my recruiter easily found this information after multiple calls to the local police station.
as for everything else...i havent a clue, since we're in a simliar situation. but i think i know what i have to do now.
good luck.
CLOSED THREAD.
Posted by omgzduhhh
- Dec 21, 2010, 02:17 PMIm having the same problem. I lied about being suspended, and expelled from high school. It was stupid stuff I did when I was younger and my recruiter told me if I dont say anything they wont find out. I've also gone to court but it was cleared off of my record and I wasnt charged with anything it was a type of 'teen court' where it was all teenagers doing the 'attorney' and 'judging' and whatnot kind've for first time offenders. I had to write an essay and do 20 hours of community service. I really doubt that they'll go that deep into it, one of the other students who was involved in the same issue and had to go to court with me is now working at an army hospital under federal clearance. She said they didnt find anything at all about it.
I'm going into the Navy for IT hopefully or MA and havent been told that either of them need top secret clearance.
I'm heading back to meps to redo my physical and get the job i want, last time they did not have mine and I havent heard anything from them about finding anything out and its been about 4 months.
Any possibility that it'll come up? and if so how much of a possibility.
I'm going into the Navy for IT hopefully or MA and havent been told that either of them need top secret clearance.
I'm heading back to meps to redo my physical and get the job i want, last time they did not have mine and I havent heard anything from them about finding anything out and its been about 4 months.
Any possibility that it'll come up? and if so how much of a possibility.
Posted by veryworried
- Dec 19, 2010, 11:57 AMim familar with mitigating circumstances, but i dont quite understand the concept. another mitigating circumstance is being encouraged to lie by authorized personel...but would mitigating circumstances actually allow me to continue with the process of getting my clearance? or would it just protect me from fradulent enlistment and reassign me to another MOS that doesnt require the clearance?
im working with the assumption that it could go absolutely either way.
im working with the assumption that it could go absolutely either way.
Posted by Joe K
- Dec 18, 2010, 05:51 PMIllegal drug use is not the problem. Lying about paperwork is, and I am 99% certain that will come up on a polygraph. The fact is this kid feels guilty enough that he is posting about it here...no doubt a polygraph would catch it. There may be problems with the polygraph, but anyone who would try to lie has no business working for government agencies based on integrity.
The investigators will indeed find out that you were suspended, because suspensions and expulsions are included in your "file" (the same file as college admissions people see). If you were a college graduate they would probably only look at your HS transcripts but because you are younger they will look there.
I strongly encourage you to come forward with the truth as soon as possible. One of the mitigating conditions for falsification is a good faith effort to correct the error quickly.
The investigators will indeed find out that you were suspended, because suspensions and expulsions are included in your "file" (the same file as college admissions people see). If you were a college graduate they would probably only look at your HS transcripts but because you are younger they will look there.
I strongly encourage you to come forward with the truth as soon as possible. One of the mitigating conditions for falsification is a good faith effort to correct the error quickly.
Posted by veryworried
- Dec 18, 2010, 02:31 PMQuoteGet a copy of your high school transcript. Does it say anything about your having been suspended and the cause?******
Background investigators consult educational records primarily for the purpose of confirming graduation.
don't know why it didnt do that before..
Posted by veryworried
- Dec 18, 2010, 02:28 PMQuoteion.
im planning on going to the school after this weekend. after i complete bct and ait i want to continue my education so i would need my transcripts anyway...i doubt it would say anything in my transcripts, however the school might have a file on me for disciplinary records, i would assume, but im not sure. do investigators not check those? i've been reading a lot about these investigations but i can't find anything about them checking high school disciplinary records...every other type of record, basically, but not those.
by the way, thank you for all of your assistance/advice.
this might just be some type of sorry sap situation to everyone else reading, but to me, well, its my life. its everything.
Posted by Intel Vet
- Dec 18, 2010, 01:46 PMQuoteI'm not sure if I agree with Intel Vet's advice. What if the original poster here progresses on up and is eventually asked to take a polygraph? The truth will come out then and it will be much worse if you've continued to lie throughout the years. It's strange that you were willing to be honest about the shoplifting, but not the marijuana.
Polygraphs don't work--they're completely bogus--as you'll learn from reading elsewhere on this site. But even if they did, the polygraph format used by DoD doesn't include questions about illegal drug use.
Posted by Joe K
- Dec 18, 2010, 01:34 PMI'm not sure if I agree with Intel Vet's advice. What if the original poster here progresses on up and is eventually asked to take a polygraph? The truth will come out then and it will be much worse if you've continued to lie throughout the years. It's strange that you were willing to be honest about the shoplifting, but not the marijuana.
It is a shame that recruiters encourage applicants to lie...I'm not sure if your recruiter would get in trouble or not. Ultimately that shouldn't be your concern.
I can guarantee that if you continue to lie about it, you're only going to feel worse and worse. There's a reason we say "the truth will set you free". Do you really want more sleepless nights over this?
It is a shame that recruiters encourage applicants to lie...I'm not sure if your recruiter would get in trouble or not. Ultimately that shouldn't be your concern.
I can guarantee that if you continue to lie about it, you're only going to feel worse and worse. There's a reason we say "the truth will set you free". Do you really want more sleepless nights over this?