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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by snarpes65
- Jan 31, 2012, 10:14 AMQuote from: George_Maschke on Jan 22, 2012, 12:23 AM
Get real. No polygraph operator has ever demonstrated the ability to detect the kinds of countermeasures outlined in The Lie Behind the Lie Detector, and Dr. Drew Richardson's countermeasure challenge has now gone a decade without takers.
Anyone facing polygraph "testing" is well advised to do that which is possible to protect themselves against this inherently unreliable, fraudulent procedure.
I was accused of using countermeasures. I just stayed calm and simply asked him to elaborate on what specifically he noticed me doing. He just sort of grumbled that "I knew" and then resumed the test. It never came up again! If he actually suspected me, he would have failed me right there on the spot. What a joke. Nothing they say can be taken at face value. Really the only thing you can 100% reliably do is to protect yourself from self-incrimination. For teaching me that important fact, I am beyond grateful for TLBTLD.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Jan 22, 2012, 12:23 AMQuote from: Polypro_Pauline on Jan 21, 2012, 05:25 PMPlease heed the advice if you're going to take a polygraph. Believe it or not, more and more polygraph examiners can in fact catch you trying countermeasures. It's not worth the risk.
Get real. No polygraph operator has ever demonstrated the ability to detect the kinds of countermeasures outlined in The Lie Behind the Lie Detector, and Dr. Drew Richardson's countermeasure challenge has now gone a decade without takers.
Anyone facing polygraph "testing" is well advised to do that which is possible to protect themselves against this inherently unreliable, fraudulent procedure.
Posted by Twoblock
- Jan 21, 2012, 05:52 PMPolypro Pauline
No indeedy.
What you're saying is "if I suspect you are using CMs, I'm going to fail you and my word is law". I don't believe you or anyone else can read minds.
No indeedy.
What you're saying is "if I suspect you are using CMs, I'm going to fail you and my word is law". I don't believe you or anyone else can read minds.
Posted by Polypro Pauline
- Jan 21, 2012, 05:25 PMPlease heed the advice if you're going to take a polygraph. Believe it or not, more and more polygraph examiners can in fact catch you trying countermeasures. It's not worth the risk.
Posted by Knightshaiid
- Jun 26, 2011, 03:17 PMQuote from: Polypro_Pauline on Jun 25, 2011, 10:17 PMThis is still the best topic on this forum. To future polygraph test subjects: Heed the advice.
Despite Plastic Polly's refusal to answer any of my rebuttals, she's absolutely right. Heed the advice:
Read The Lie Behind The Lie Detector, and employ the mental countermeasures if you have to take one of those pseudo-scientific 'tests' for employment purposes. Other than that, steer clear of them.
Posted by Polypro Pauline
- Jun 25, 2011, 10:17 PMThis is still the best topic on this forum. To future polygraph test subjects: Heed the advice.
Posted by Knightshaiid
- Nov 02, 2010, 11:34 PMQuote from: Polypro_Pauline on Jul 17, 2010, 11:04 PMBy giving out bad advice and freaking out the weak-minded, you help us do exactly what the polygraph also does: weed out cheaters, liars, and others who have no business in law enforcement in the first place. So thanks.
If you're really interested in weeding out the 'cheaters' and 'liars' in law enforcement Plastic Poly, then you should resign immediately.
And this isn't meant as a juvenile insult - on EVERY so-called "polygraph exam" you're administering, you're lying to your examinees. Every time you generate a false positive and disqualify a truthful person for lying, you're cheating that honest person out of a career.
So go ahead and quit. Get rid of at least one lying cheater.
Posted by Knightshaiid
- Aug 15, 2010, 09:35 PMAnd why did the National Academy for Sciences find polygraph testing to be completely unreliable, Plastic Polly?
Why does ALL the science indicate this thing is a load of garbage if it works so well?
Why does ALL the science indicate this thing is a load of garbage if it works so well?
Posted by Knightshaiid
- Aug 15, 2010, 09:32 PMI told the truth on all the relevant questions.
Oh, I can't attribute my passing to the use of countermeasures? Perhaps not in your skewed world.
Then answer this question:
Why did I 'fail' my first polygraph interrogation if the information I gave was THE EXACT SAME as subsequent interrogations which I 'passed?' Scientific results are replicable, right?
Why did the truth only 'pass' me when I started using countermeasures?
Oh, I can't attribute my passing to the use of countermeasures? Perhaps not in your skewed world.
Then answer this question:
Why did I 'fail' my first polygraph interrogation if the information I gave was THE EXACT SAME as subsequent interrogations which I 'passed?' Scientific results are replicable, right?
Why did the truth only 'pass' me when I started using countermeasures?
Posted by Polypro Pauline
- Aug 07, 2010, 11:22 AMWhich relevant questions did you lie to and passed? If you didn't lie to any of those questions and pass, then you can not say that you passed because of countermeasures.
Posted by Knightshaiid
- Jul 23, 2010, 11:12 AMQuote from: Polypro_Pauline on Jul 17, 2010, 11:04 PMOh come on. You guys should thank me for even writing something here. Without the occasional polygrapher on this site it would be its usual dull self-congratulating self. But we polygraphers should also thank you all. By giving out bad advice and freaking out the weak-minded, you help us do exactly what the polygraph also does: weed out cheaters, liars, and others who have no business in law enforcement in the first place. So thanks.
Bad advice? The countermeasures in TLBTLD work, and they work wonderfully. I've got three passed polygraphs to prove it.
What DOESN'T work is the polygraph itself - this elaborate pseudo-system of unethical lies in a pathetic attempt to determine if someone is 'lying.'
If it DID work, its results would be admissible in court - and they're not. If it DID work, it wouldn't have such an incredibly high false positive rate - and it does. If it DID work, the asinine stupid thing you morons do with the card in the beginning of the test would yield a result - and it doesn't.
Lie detection is nought more than a modern day witch hunt within the law enforcement community: despite the fact that everyone knows it's bunk, we all agree to the lie. Anyone who disagrees is, of course, accused of lying.
It's okay - every day this site is here, every time someone learns the truth, we move one step closer to the eradication of this nonsense. Plenty of police departments don't use them, and they are illegal in MN.
Keep it up, Polypropelyne. Just keep TELLING yourself it's true. Close your eyes and say, "I believe! I believe!" despite all evidence to the contrary. (It's what you've been doing all along.)
Posted by Just an accountant
- Jul 22, 2010, 03:26 AMQuote from: Polypro_Pauline on Jul 17, 2010, 11:04 PMOh come on. You guys should thank me for even writing something here. Without the occasional polygrapher on this site it would be its usual dull self-congratulating self. But we polygraphers should also thank you all. By giving out bad advice and freaking out the weak-minded, you help us do exactly what the polygraph also does: weed out cheaters, liars, and others who have no business in law enforcement in the first place. So thanks.
It's always nice to mix things up, I agree, and although I don't agree with everything on this site, I certainly recognize the great wealth of information it is. I do find it disheartening though that all the pro-poly people do resort to name calling as sergeant and so many others pointed out. You know name calling is a sign you're losing the argument, right?
My other issue with that post is that it reflects a "frat" like mentality that is so pervasive in LE. Maybe because of my different background than most others on the street, but I'm getting tired of always pointing out to others that they can't have a "us vs. them" mentality when dealing with the public, and constitutional protections shouldn't be seen as a hinderance to investigations, rather assurance that a case is solid.
Many in police don't like dealing with red tape and bureaucracy. That is a better driver for eliminating candidates than their "toughness". If someone fills out a form wrong anywhere in their application, then rescind their offer.
Posted by Sergeant1107
- Jul 21, 2010, 03:42 PMQuote from: Polypro_Pauline on Jul 17, 2010, 11:04 PMBut we polygraphers should also thank you all. By giving out bad advice and freaking out the weak-minded, you help us do exactly what the polygraph also does: weed out cheaters, liars, and others who have no business in law enforcement in the first place. So thanks.
If that is true why have so many polygraph operators posted so many hostile and denigrating messages on this board, many of which were aimed at the web sites founders? Because they believe we are helping them? Because they believe that cheats and liars foolishly choose to utilize the information on this web site and doing so makes them easier to identify as cheats and liars?
Posted by Polypro Pauline
- Jul 17, 2010, 11:04 PMOh come on. You guys should thank me for even writing something here. Without the occasional polygrapher on this site it would be its usual dull self-congratulating self. But we polygraphers should also thank you all. By giving out bad advice and freaking out the weak-minded, you help us do exactly what the polygraph also does: weed out cheaters, liars, and others who have no business in law enforcement in the first place. So thanks.
Posted by Fair Chance
- Jul 10, 2010, 11:36 PM"Ignore that most polygraphers try to interrogate and coerce confessions out of examinees no matter their stupid machines tell them, or that a polygrapher's only purpose in life is to get an examinee to admit they lie. In fact, let's also disregard that some polygraphers get paid by the confession. Let's also ditch how unethical it is to tell someone you're on THEIR side during a hiring process when in reality all you're trying to do is disqualify them."
This quote may be what bothers me the most in how government polygraph operators ply their trade. They truly feel that they are the "gate keepers." They are the judge, jury, and executioner of lives and careers based upon an assumed set of parameters that are not based in any science. If I have heard it once, I have heard it one hundred times that polygraph examiners are "artist". Some are finger painters and some are extraordinaire. I do not need an artist to decide my fate, I need an objective scientifically proven procedure with known outcomes to known inputs. I want scientifically repeatable procedures that will stand up to independent scrutiny.
In short, I do not want a "Good-ole-boys" network that can operate under the radar and bypass government mandated hiring practices without videotape (or DVD) recordings that can stand the light of day and review.
Our government will get want it wants, a perpetuation of "YES" men who will toe the company line as the lemurs follow one another over the cliff to their doom. If the emperor has no clothes, the truth can only be suppressed for so long.
This quote may be what bothers me the most in how government polygraph operators ply their trade. They truly feel that they are the "gate keepers." They are the judge, jury, and executioner of lives and careers based upon an assumed set of parameters that are not based in any science. If I have heard it once, I have heard it one hundred times that polygraph examiners are "artist". Some are finger painters and some are extraordinaire. I do not need an artist to decide my fate, I need an objective scientifically proven procedure with known outcomes to known inputs. I want scientifically repeatable procedures that will stand up to independent scrutiny.
In short, I do not want a "Good-ole-boys" network that can operate under the radar and bypass government mandated hiring practices without videotape (or DVD) recordings that can stand the light of day and review.
Our government will get want it wants, a perpetuation of "YES" men who will toe the company line as the lemurs follow one another over the cliff to their doom. If the emperor has no clothes, the truth can only be suppressed for so long.