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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by zomboo
- Mar 25, 2009, 02:49 PMQuote from: nopoly4me on Mar 25, 2009, 09:29 AMsynstsia wrote on Yesterday at 8:18am:
Most of us just want to serve our community (or have already done so for years) and don't deserve to be treated like criminals.
I think that's a key point.Why should we treat police applicants like perps?Because they are applying for a police job?I don't see the sense in that.
You are absolutely right Sarge.
AMEN! 8-)
Posted by nopolycop
- Mar 25, 2009, 09:29 AMQuote from: Sergeant1107 on Mar 25, 2009, 02:43 AMQuote from: synstsia on Mar 24, 2009, 08:18 AMMost of us just want to serve our community (or have already done so for years) and don't deserve to be treated like criminals.I think that's a key point. Why should we treat police applicants like perps? Because they are applying for a police job? I don't see the sense in that.
You are absolutely right Sarge.
Posted by Sergeant1107
- Mar 25, 2009, 02:43 AMQuote from: synstsia on Mar 24, 2009, 08:18 AMMost of us just want to serve our community (or have already done so for years) and don't deserve to be treated like criminals.I think that's a key point. Why should we treat police applicants like perps? Because they are applying for a police job? I don't see the sense in that.
Posted by synstsia
- Mar 24, 2009, 03:23 PMQuoteAnd that Syn, is EXACTLY the problem.
I hear you.. Loads of background investigations, psychological testing and personal interviews can all be 'debunked' by a single subjective test.. Not to mention the propensity for ego to get thrown into the mix- You mentioned the possibility that the examiner, for whatever reason, may not have liked you- well, when a single person (in some cases, someone not even affiliated with the agency you're applying to) gets so much power, it can go straight to their heads.
Posted by T.M. Cullen
- Mar 24, 2009, 03:14 PMQuoteOther than what we've already talked about, have you ever lied to an authority figure?
Other than what you've told me, did you lie about your involvement in criminal activity?
First question above is a control, the next one is a relevant question.
The "other than what you've told me ......" additive is bullshit. If you are reacting to the question it is derived from (in which you told them something), you might well continue to react as you will still be sensitized to that question and your mind will know that the latest version is just a permutation of the original question. Let there be no doubt though, they are STILL fishing for information relevant to the original question regarding criminal activity.
So an applicant should not let the "other than what you've told me..." jazz set them at ease."
TC
Posted by zomboo
- Mar 24, 2009, 01:56 PMQuote from: PhilGainey on Mar 24, 2009, 02:24 AMSeriously though, where there any "control questions"?Or just relevant/irrelevant?
Hmm. I really dont know how to answer that one. I had 12 questions and each one was exactly the same. Basically, they went like this: Other than what you've already told me, have you ever (insert crime here)?
ie: Other than what we've already talked about, have you ever lied to an authority figure?
Other than what you've told me, did you lie about your involvement in criminal activity?
etc etc etc x12
Quote from: synstsia on Mar 24, 2009, 08:18 AM- and "failing" the game or failing to play along means that a good officer might not be hired.
And that Syn, is EXACTLY the problem.
Posted by synstsia
- Mar 24, 2009, 08:52 AMQuote from: PhilGainey on Mar 24, 2009, 02:24 AMSeriously though, where there any "control questions"? Or just relevant/irrelevant?
My test consisted mostly of control/directed-lie questions. Didn't spend much time on the relevant/irrelevant ones. In fact, I think we spent the most time on building up the charade that this was going to be a mystical process. Was the big wooden chair with oversized arm rests really supposed to intimidate me? Was the examiners seemingly Jeckle & Hyde attitude supposed to get me flustered? Does sitting like a statue and staring at a wall really expose vulnerability?
Posted by synstsia
- Mar 24, 2009, 08:18 AMQuote from: PhilGainey on Mar 24, 2009, 02:24 AMSeriously though, where there any "control questions"? Or just relevant/irrelevant?
P.S. Did you pucker your disgusting little anus or have dirty thoughts while being asked the test questions?
Personally, I didnt' pucker.. I'm tired of bending over for people like that. In Law Enforcement, there are always layers of people in the hiring process that believe they are your 'God' for that particular step. It's a shame that an interrogation technique must be attempted, as it is wholly unnecessary. Most of us just want to serve our community (or have already done so for years) and don't deserve to be treated like criminals. I'm so pissed off that its all just one big game- and "failing" the game or failing to play along means that a good officer might not be hired.
Posted by T.M. Cullen
- Mar 24, 2009, 02:24 AMSeriously though, where there any "control questions"? Or just relevant/irrelevant?
My guess is that some LE pre-employment polycrap tests purposely use such an aggressive, confrontational approach to "break you down" and "fluster" you. Standard counter interrogational technique there is to:
1) Let them fluster you and don't fight back, smart off, or negatively respond to their attacks. Show them you can REMAIN CALM UNDER FIRE. Like a trooper!
2) Hold out as long as you can.
3) Give them something, but NOTHING THEY CAN USE AGAINST YOU. (e.g. POW giving outdated info about an aircraft, or weapoin system; you've never taken illegal drugs, but you know a guy who OD'd so it's sensitive subject for you.)
TC
P.S. Did you pucker your disgusting little anus or have dirty thoughts while being asked the test questions?
My guess is that some LE pre-employment polycrap tests purposely use such an aggressive, confrontational approach to "break you down" and "fluster" you. Standard counter interrogational technique there is to:
1) Let them fluster you and don't fight back, smart off, or negatively respond to their attacks. Show them you can REMAIN CALM UNDER FIRE. Like a trooper!
2) Hold out as long as you can.
3) Give them something, but NOTHING THEY CAN USE AGAINST YOU. (e.g. POW giving outdated info about an aircraft, or weapoin system; you've never taken illegal drugs, but you know a guy who OD'd so it's sensitive subject for you.)
TC
P.S. Did you pucker your disgusting little anus or have dirty thoughts while being asked the test questions?
Posted by zomboo
- Mar 23, 2009, 07:15 PMDamnit TMC... dont you know the magic box already "knows" whether I'm telling the truth or not. 
But seriously, hearing that there are other people who have had very similiar experiences/tactics used on them, I still wonder, is this type of verbal assault used to "scare" someone into admitting something? or to make you think they know something when they don't? Or do I just chalk it up to the fact that my examiner may not of liked of me, and thus, I "fail".
But seriously, hearing that there are other people who have had very similiar experiences/tactics used on them, I still wonder, is this type of verbal assault used to "scare" someone into admitting something? or to make you think they know something when they don't? Or do I just chalk it up to the fact that my examiner may not of liked of me, and thus, I "fail".
Posted by T.M. Cullen
- Mar 23, 2009, 06:06 PMHave you guys ever considered just "telling the truth"?
TC
TC
Posted by Labeled4Life
- Mar 23, 2009, 04:30 PMZomboo,
Each time I read a variant of my experience I get more and more nauseated. I almost would suspect at some point that this storyline should just be included as an introduction to this forum. First time I read a story like this, it read like a script that was familiar in some sort of way until I realized it was the script that the examiner had played out with me as well.
Each time I read a variant of my experience I get more and more nauseated. I almost would suspect at some point that this storyline should just be included as an introduction to this forum. First time I read a story like this, it read like a script that was familiar in some sort of way until I realized it was the script that the examiner had played out with me as well.
Posted by synstsia
- Mar 23, 2009, 01:40 PMZomboo,
Your experience is eerily familiar, as the same exact thing has happened to me. I too have prior law enforcement and have passed a polygraph in the past. Most recently, I switched agencies and was forced to take a test as a pre-employment screen. I was given the exact same numbers game that you were given and even recieved the exact same ridiculous treatment from the examiner. I was told that I "could not follow directions" and the examiner threatened to end the test a number of times. I found this seriously amusing and thought I was in the twilight zone, so I acted accordingly. After playing the "directed lie" game for about an hour, I became annoyed and began to question the meaning behind the questions. After making a quip regarding their ridivulous behavior, the examiner ended the test and showed me the way out. What kind of horse crap is this? PM me if you want to talk in private..
Your experience is eerily familiar, as the same exact thing has happened to me. I too have prior law enforcement and have passed a polygraph in the past. Most recently, I switched agencies and was forced to take a test as a pre-employment screen. I was given the exact same numbers game that you were given and even recieved the exact same ridiculous treatment from the examiner. I was told that I "could not follow directions" and the examiner threatened to end the test a number of times. I found this seriously amusing and thought I was in the twilight zone, so I acted accordingly. After playing the "directed lie" game for about an hour, I became annoyed and began to question the meaning behind the questions. After making a quip regarding their ridivulous behavior, the examiner ended the test and showed me the way out. What kind of horse crap is this? PM me if you want to talk in private..
Posted by T.M. Cullen
- Mar 21, 2009, 06:10 PMQuoteThen again, they would have been correct about researching it prior to the exam, so I guess its better that I didn't.
No, it would have been better that you read it, and kept it to yourself. If the polygraph is so damn accurate and scientific, what difference would it make? By asking if you have ever researched the polygraph, their just trying to gauge how gullible you might be. You could even take it a step further and say "Gee, I've heard the polygraph is REALLY accurate. 98% even. Is that true? Wow!"
Polygraphers would respond by saying that you should be totally honest, even though they are trying to dupe you and being deceptive themselves.
Standard response it, "why not just tell the truth?" Of course, that is PRECISELY what you did, and got called a liar anyway. So whats the freaking point!
If you walk into a used car lot and the slick car salesman asks you "how much you willing to spend lad?", or "Been to any other car lots?", would you necessarily feel obligated to answer them truthfully?
I got ask the first question in 1998 at a car lot. My answer? "How low are you willing to go?" He gave me a nasty look, walked away and quit pestering me!
TC
P.S. Tell your family and friends about your experience. Dispel the myth! Expose the truth!
Posted by zomboo
- Mar 21, 2009, 05:57 PMGeorge & T.M.
Thanks for the quick responses. While it doesn't solve my situation, it does make me feel a bit better to know that there isnt some deep, dark hole in my head hiding some horrific past that I cannot remember.
(trust me, I sat up helf the night unable to sleep, trying to remember if there is anything I did. Remember that candy-bar when you werre 10?)
George, I read chap. 3 of the book... and WOW!... I wish I would have read it 2 days ago before my test. LOL! Then again, they would have been correct about researching it prior to the exam, so I guess its better that I didn't. But the info is GREAT. And the questions and situations? The chapter had the EXACT questions almost word for word that they used.
I bow before your greatness. I almost had to laugh at some of the stuff because it was almost identical in every way!!
I guess only time will tell what my "results" will be.
Thanks for the quick responses. While it doesn't solve my situation, it does make me feel a bit better to know that there isnt some deep, dark hole in my head hiding some horrific past that I cannot remember.
(trust me, I sat up helf the night unable to sleep, trying to remember if there is anything I did. Remember that candy-bar when you werre 10?)
George, I read chap. 3 of the book... and WOW!... I wish I would have read it 2 days ago before my test. LOL! Then again, they would have been correct about researching it prior to the exam, so I guess its better that I didn't. But the info is GREAT. And the questions and situations? The chapter had the EXACT questions almost word for word that they used.
I bow before your greatness. I almost had to laugh at some of the stuff because it was almost identical in every way!!I guess only time will tell what my "results" will be.