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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by SanchoPanza
- Nov 03, 2008, 06:11 AMQuote from: PhilGainey on Nov 03, 2008, 12:11 AMCriminals often parse and nitpick words to rationalize their guilt or otherwise obfuscate matters.
Mr. Cullen. Go back and read your posts. You are the one who is arguing the definition of the word exam when Polygraphers call them exams/examinations, Dr. Maschke's book calls them Polygraph Examinations, the NAS calls them Polygraph Examinations and the Employee Polygraph Protection Act calls the people who take them "examinees".
You seem to think by changing the definition of the word exam, you can change the definition of "Lying" and " Cheating" . A feeble attempt at a straw man argument at best.
Posted by T.M. Cullen
- Nov 03, 2008, 12:11 AMGetting back to the original topic.
Call it whatever you want to call it, it is a ruse, it is a con game. If a person has to resort to conning a conman, to prevent himself from being falsely branded a liar, then cheat baby cheat.
Now cheating on a bar exam, CPA examination...etc., that really is dishonest.
I believe in delving into the true meaning of things, and not being superficial to support a losing battle. Criminals often parse and nitpick words to rationalize their guilt or otherwise obfuscate matters. Just like you are doing.
TC
Call it whatever you want to call it, it is a ruse, it is a con game. If a person has to resort to conning a conman, to prevent himself from being falsely branded a liar, then cheat baby cheat.
Now cheating on a bar exam, CPA examination...etc., that really is dishonest.
I believe in delving into the true meaning of things, and not being superficial to support a losing battle. Criminals often parse and nitpick words to rationalize their guilt or otherwise obfuscate matters. Just like you are doing.
TC
Posted by SanchoPanza
- Nov 02, 2008, 10:18 PMNotguilty1 You are again WRONG
Polygraphers call them exams/examinations, Dr. Maschke's book calls them Polygraph Examinations, the NAS calls them Polygraph Examinations and the Employee Polygraph Protection Act calls the people who take them "examinees".
For you to state that "polygraph is not an exam" is simply a childishly absurd attempt at needling and asserting a hypothesis contrary to previously established and agreed terminology.
Sancho Panza
Polygraphers call them exams/examinations, Dr. Maschke's book calls them Polygraph Examinations, the NAS calls them Polygraph Examinations and the Employee Polygraph Protection Act calls the people who take them "examinees".
For you to state that "polygraph is not an exam" is simply a childishly absurd attempt at needling and asserting a hypothesis contrary to previously established and agreed terminology.
Sancho Panza
Posted by notguilty1
- Nov 02, 2008, 08:46 PMQuote from: SanchoPanza on Nov 02, 2008, 03:51 PMQuote from: PhilGainey on Nov 02, 2008, 01:48 PMThe polygraph is not an "exam
You should really buy a dictionary Mr. Cullen
"Exam" is a commonly accepted abbreviation of the word examination. I have included the definition below.
Polygraphers call them exams/examinations, Dr. Maschke's book calls them Polygraph Examinations, the NAS calls them Polygraph Examinations and the Employee Polygraph Protection Act calls the people who take them "examinees".
For you to state that "polygraph is not an exam" is simply a childishly absurd attempt at needling and asserting a hypothesis contrary to previously established and agreed terminology.
examination
noun
1. the act of examining something closely (as for mistakes)
2. a set of questions or exercises evaluating skill or knowledge; "when the test was stolen the professor had to make a new set of questions"
3. formal systematic questioning [syn: interrogation]
4. a detailed inspection of your conscience (as done daily by Jesuits) [syn: examen]
5. the act of giving students or candidates a test (as by questions) to determine what they know or have learned
examination. (n.d.). WordNet® 3.0. Retrieved November 02, 2008, from Dictionary.com website: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/examination
What definition of the word exam are you using?
Sancho Panza
Sancho,
TC is right. you are using the term "exam" to mean "as in cheating on a exam" which is not the case at all.
When one takes an "exam" and gives the correct answers that individual WILL pass the exam. Not always so with polygraphy as you well know.
The definition of exam doesn't actually apply to polygraph as stated in your post.
1) Polygraph does not examine something closely. It only attempts to induce a confession using the subjects ignorance of polygraph and it's validity.
2) It is not a set of questions or exercises evaluating skill or knowledge. Since polygraph does not detect lies as the general public has been lead to believe it does not evaluate anything other than a response to a question.
3) it is not a formal systematic since systematic is defined as: done or acting according to a fixed plan or system we know that polygraph is far from a fixed plan or system since it seeks only to solicit information from the subject and cannot by itself be counted on for the truth.
4) IT CERTAINLY does not inspect anyones conscience in detail or any other way. It simply has no power to do that in any provable way.
5)The act of giving students or candidates a test (as by questions) to determine what they know or have learned.
Again, polygraph by it self cannot determine what anyone knows or has learned. Only answers to the subsequent interrogation can and sometimes thats false too.
So Sancho, what definition of "exam" do you think applies to polygraph in the content of your little Poll?
Posted by SanchoPanza
- Nov 02, 2008, 03:51 PMQuote from: PhilGainey on Nov 02, 2008, 01:48 PMThe polygraph is not an "exam
You should really buy a dictionary Mr. Cullen
"Exam" is a commonly accepted abbreviation of the word examination. I have included the definition below.
Polygraphers call them exams/examinations, Dr. Maschke's book calls them Polygraph Examinations, the NAS calls them Polygraph Examinations and the Employee Polygraph Protection Act calls the people who take them "examinees".
For you to state that "polygraph is not an exam" is simply a childishly absurd attempt at needling and asserting a hypothesis contrary to previously established and agreed terminology.
examination
noun
1. the act of examining something closely (as for mistakes)
2. a set of questions or exercises evaluating skill or knowledge; "when the test was stolen the professor had to make a new set of questions"
3. formal systematic questioning [syn: interrogation]
4. a detailed inspection of your conscience (as done daily by Jesuits) [syn: examen]
5. the act of giving students or candidates a test (as by questions) to determine what they know or have learned
examination. (n.d.). WordNet® 3.0. Retrieved November 02, 2008, from Dictionary.com website: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/examination
What definition of the word exam are you using?
Sancho Panza
Posted by T.M. Cullen
- Nov 02, 2008, 01:48 PMpolygraph exam?
The polygraph is not an "exam". So if you're trying to conjure up the vision of little Johnny cheating on a math test, it doesn't apply.
But if these chart tracings of mere bodily functions are used by the chart operator to deceive, trick or manipulate an person who is telling the truth into falsely believing he/she is actually lying, than it's not really cheating. Turnaround is fair play.
Problem is, you guys have been doing this so long you're livng is a world of make believe.
TC
P.S. Still think Dr. Zimbardo is a proponent of the polygraph? Got anymore bogus research to misapply?
The polygraph is not an "exam". So if you're trying to conjure up the vision of little Johnny cheating on a math test, it doesn't apply.
Quote....to influence the results of the polygraph exam or manipulate chart tracings by deceit, trick, or artifice which would include the countermeasures promoted in Dr. Maschke's Book.
But if these chart tracings of mere bodily functions are used by the chart operator to deceive, trick or manipulate an person who is telling the truth into falsely believing he/she is actually lying, than it's not really cheating. Turnaround is fair play.
Problem is, you guys have been doing this so long you're livng is a world of make believe.
TC
P.S. Still think Dr. Zimbardo is a proponent of the polygraph? Got anymore bogus research to misapply?
Posted by SanchoPanza
- Nov 02, 2008, 11:27 AMGO TO THE ABOVE THREAD AND TAKE THE POLL.
The question is: Do you think that lying and cheating on a polygraph exam is justified if one believes it might help them get a job with the government or avoid further suspicion in a criminal investigation?
For the purpose of this poll, "cheating" is defined as the attempt to influence the results of the polygraph exam or manipulate chart tracings by deceit, trick, or artifice which would include the countermeasures promoted in Dr. Maschke's Book.
The question is: Do you think that lying and cheating on a polygraph exam is justified if one believes it might help them get a job with the government or avoid further suspicion in a criminal investigation?
For the purpose of this poll, "cheating" is defined as the attempt to influence the results of the polygraph exam or manipulate chart tracings by deceit, trick, or artifice which would include the countermeasures promoted in Dr. Maschke's Book.