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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by kingnothing
- Jul 18, 2008, 05:35 PMQuote from: kingnothing on Jul 18, 2008, 09:50 AMThe CQ's arent trick questions.
They are what they are.
I know precisely how polygraph works. I am a technician and examiner for many years.
I reiterate, you cant fail CQ's and if you responded YES to them
then there was not even a valid test protocol administered.
So, I have a sneaky feeling that ur telling us little pork pies.
What was the name of the examiner ?
Rgds,
Ok man your trying to double talk your point. your making statements without an once of fact or proof. I noticed your trying to focus on a word "years" and COs that are meaningless. thats my point meaningless questions asked as a comparison. So what does it matter what I answer Yes or No should give you a comparison. "duh!"
Why would the tech stop the test and ask me why I am lying on a questions that's not counted. He's trying to "Control" me by asking Controlled questions as a comparison. it's a flawed questions and a bullshit one at that
You haven't stated anything other than "what you think" You know how it works! Fine! Explain it too me.
Explain to me why you think I am telling you "little pork pies"
Call it what you want a formulated question designed get a specific response. The fact is your making statements on a event that you weren't present at. Assume all you want and make more comments of I am telling you little pork pies proves when you have nothing of value to add other then trying to put me down.
Again "I DIDN'T FAIL MY POLYGRAPH" I just was able to see past the BS I was being asked. and if you think thats a pork pie tell me why it is.
Posted by polytechnic
- Jul 18, 2008, 09:50 AMThe CQ's arent trick questions.
They are what they are.
I know precisely how polygraph works. I am a technician and examiner for many years.
I reiterate, you cant fail CQ's and if you responded YES to them
then there was not even a valid test protocol administered.
So, I have a sneaky feeling that ur telling us little pork pies.
What was the name of the examiner ?
Rgds,
They are what they are.
I know precisely how polygraph works. I am a technician and examiner for many years.
I reiterate, you cant fail CQ's and if you responded YES to them
then there was not even a valid test protocol administered.
So, I have a sneaky feeling that ur telling us little pork pies.
What was the name of the examiner ?
Rgds,
Posted by kingnothing
- Jul 18, 2008, 07:38 AMQuote from: kingnothing on Jul 15, 2008, 10:14 AMDear KingNothing,
You cannot flunk a poly test based on yr reactions to the CQ's.
The CQ's aren't scored themselves - they are only utilized as
a comparison for scoring the RQ's.
If you flunked, then you flunked the RQ's.
I doubt that your examiner told you otherwise. Even polygraph exainers are not that dumbass.
If I had flunked my RQ's I have been fired from my job. I was failing on the CQs. "And being honest I might add! and also I passed my ROs
If what your saying is true, then this should prove at least the examiner is inexperienced
Also I might add The examiner himself stated "That I was so analytical that when he was asking me my CQs. that he even knew I answered honestly that I pegged the reading" I am not sure about what "pegged the reading meant" I know he was wanting me to say "no" as a comparison. and I didn't
The CQs are "Controlled questions" that are "Formulated" to get a desired response on the assumption you will be lying i.e. "trick question"
The examiner stated the "formulated" in a news paper about a year ago"
Not to hard to understand what he meant by that.
Look I respect the person and his job I know what he's trying to do and help solve a problem I just know the methods he was using are flawed
I say flawed because of the statements and questions that were asked. The more he spoke the more I knew I was being lied too, double talked too and being told misleading statements.
And there is no passing or failing to this.. No body react the same as the next. As much of an exact science it is. Its not an exact science. If it were, then you would see the results in the courtroom! And you very rarely see that.
My story almost an exact fit of the lady on this forum who talks about applying for the F.B.I is was almost a step by step account on how mine went.
You only know what other people have told you to be true
- Albert Einstein
People died for suggesting the world was round and not the center of the universe. Titanic was known as "The Unsinkable Ship"
The bible says it's OK to stone your child to death, own slaves sell your daughter into slavery, kill your wife and kill anyone who works on the sabbath "Thou shall not kill"
Posted by polytechnic
- Jul 15, 2008, 10:14 AMDear KingNothing,
You cannot flunk a poly test based on yr reactions to the CQ's.
The CQ's aren't scored themselves - they are only utilized as
a comparison for scoring the RQ's.
If you flunked, then you flunked the RQ's.
I doubt that your examiner told you otherwise. Even polygraph exainers are not that dumbass.
You cannot flunk a poly test based on yr reactions to the CQ's.
The CQ's aren't scored themselves - they are only utilized as
a comparison for scoring the RQ's.
If you flunked, then you flunked the RQ's.
I doubt that your examiner told you otherwise. Even polygraph exainers are not that dumbass.
Posted by kingnothing
- Jul 13, 2008, 05:24 PMI can not go into the details about mine since it's still an open case. But I will post about it later on.
My results over "money being stolen"
I passed on my direct questions Did I steal that money? and passed Do I know who stole that money
But I failed all the controlled questions.
My problem is while sitting there being asked simple questions "Are the lights on?" and is your name ??
The funny part about those two questions are, that once I answered them, I replied "Those are Ouija board questions" not knowing just how dead on a statement I just had made.
The next part was being told that if you have done anything as in lying or stealing in the past 10 years this will prove you are the type of person who would take "that" money repeated over and over again
That is a 5th amendment issue right there. This explains why it's voluntary and why you must sign a waiver and have your Miranda Rights covered and why you can end the test at anytime you want.
The "Stim Test" Poor Magic trick
1. Being asked to look at numbers written on a piece of paper from 1 to 7
2. Being told I have to write a number down from 3, 4 or 5 "forced deck" with the instructions to draw a circle around the number and fold it up and place it under my leg.
3 Being told I had to move from one chair to the polygraph chair and that they needed to go talk to someone. "The Con" and he made sure he made no contact towards me.
4. The paper (1 to 7) was then taped to the wall and I was hooked up. when the test began I was instructed no matter what number he asked I was to say no "The Con part Two"
5 After going thought all the numbers, he then tells me that I need to say yes when he asks me if my number is 3 he stops and say OK your body knows when you are lying.. "No he knows I am telling the truth"
The trick explained
the paper with 1 to 7 taped to the wall has a pen impression on it of a circle and "3" thats not mine. The tick is the write a number in pen on a stack of paper. that I handed back to him and turned away from him the whole time leaving ample time to exam the page. He knows your telling the truth
To further insure he would know what the number what when he showed me what number I choose from he drew a line above 3 and below 5. when he was telling me I could choose only one of the number he kept the pen pointed on "3" and he would tap the pen when he said to draw a circle around as a power of suggestion.
After talked to two other people who took the test we all figured out that we had all picked the same number. "3"
controlled question
"have you lied to a loved one in the past eight years"
I am sitting there thinking to myself this is a lie! I am being deceived!
he explained that he only cares about major lie to cover a crime or to get out of trouble etc.. hes not concerned about ones "does my ass look fat in these jeans"
and I thought to myself during this explanation well a glass with water half way up is it half full or half empty. no matter what it's still a glass with water in it. and being I read the bible allot I know from a religious point that it doesn't matter a lie is a lie. therefore the answer to the question is "YES"
so when I was asked this I paused for a min and started running the numbers in my head.
1. people sleep on average eight hours a night (56 a week)
2. people work an average 9 hours (45) one hour lunch included
3. times to travel to and from work and other hobbies can reduce time. so will will stop there and use 7 to 5 hours (leap year not included)
5*5 = 25 hours + 2 days off minus sleep = 25+16 = 41 hours
41 * 52 weeks in a year = 2,132 hours a year
2,132 * by eight years = 17,056
The probability that you lied at least once a day to a family member would only last about 1 to 3 mins as a way to "end" a conversation
Using the same formula. that works out to less then 3.26 to 1.5 hours in the past eight years your asked about.
Therefore this is a controlled question that is assumed that you will be lying if you say no. and that is what they want a comparison lie to determine if your telling the truth
Even if my math and figures are wrong I worked the math out in less 20 secs for some reason in the test I came to 933 hour a year. But still it doesn't matter. Conversations are like dreams the further we get away from it the harder it is to remember what was said. same reason people get caught lying.
Also anyone who has watch the show "The 1st 48" The officer always talk about the 1st 48 hours being the most important, after that details of a crime become faded and each passing hour more and more details of a crime will be lost and the probability of solving a crime is reduced.
Also the Magic trick stim test is another trick based on a already established police method. If they ever receive a ransom note they will take all the note pads out of the house for a comparison. If anyone remembers the JonBenét Ramsey case would remember they found that the ransom note was believed to be the 3rd note written based on impression of the pen left from the author.
So what does any of this have to do with you?
If your an analytical person and question anything your told you will almost certainly fail
From reading posts from George and watching his You tube videos it appears he is a very extremely analytical I am willing to bet he questioned the things he was being told in his mind. that raised a body response.
Having a background ground in Computer Sci, I know the Machine it's self can not separate what emotion you maybe feeling and to assume that your reaction to any question that raises a doubt in your mind will cause the answer to be "untruthful" even when it's not.
So I answered Yes to have you lied to a love one! It made scene I understood the it's forced to make me lie. what I was failing to realize was the examiners logic. But once I read a few sites plus him telling me about this one I now understood the method. It was at this point that the examiner stopped the test and asked me why I was lying. when I know I was telling the truth based on the quick math I ran in my head the examiner stated he wanted me to lie. Now being in shock and confused I could not wrap my brain around the logic. Now I am going well "Duh!"
So I explained I would not lie the question is so vague and broad spanned over eight years there is no way for anyone to remember all conversations therefore it is a deceptive question again "Duh!" He told me that he would explain everything when the test was done. but at this point I feel lied too and so confused. I told him "we are done get this "$$$$" off me"
My advice take a personality disposition test. May have other names for it. PDT etc. most corp jobs require it now. and I believable it was part of the ISO 9000 to 2000
My results over "money being stolen"
I passed on my direct questions Did I steal that money? and passed Do I know who stole that money
But I failed all the controlled questions.
My problem is while sitting there being asked simple questions "Are the lights on?" and is your name ??
The funny part about those two questions are, that once I answered them, I replied "Those are Ouija board questions" not knowing just how dead on a statement I just had made.
The next part was being told that if you have done anything as in lying or stealing in the past 10 years this will prove you are the type of person who would take "that" money repeated over and over again
That is a 5th amendment issue right there. This explains why it's voluntary and why you must sign a waiver and have your Miranda Rights covered and why you can end the test at anytime you want.
The "Stim Test" Poor Magic trick
1. Being asked to look at numbers written on a piece of paper from 1 to 7
2. Being told I have to write a number down from 3, 4 or 5 "forced deck" with the instructions to draw a circle around the number and fold it up and place it under my leg.
3 Being told I had to move from one chair to the polygraph chair and that they needed to go talk to someone. "The Con" and he made sure he made no contact towards me.
4. The paper (1 to 7) was then taped to the wall and I was hooked up. when the test began I was instructed no matter what number he asked I was to say no "The Con part Two"
5 After going thought all the numbers, he then tells me that I need to say yes when he asks me if my number is 3 he stops and say OK your body knows when you are lying.. "No he knows I am telling the truth"
The trick explained
the paper with 1 to 7 taped to the wall has a pen impression on it of a circle and "3" thats not mine. The tick is the write a number in pen on a stack of paper. that I handed back to him and turned away from him the whole time leaving ample time to exam the page. He knows your telling the truth
To further insure he would know what the number what when he showed me what number I choose from he drew a line above 3 and below 5. when he was telling me I could choose only one of the number he kept the pen pointed on "3" and he would tap the pen when he said to draw a circle around as a power of suggestion.
After talked to two other people who took the test we all figured out that we had all picked the same number. "3"
controlled question
"have you lied to a loved one in the past eight years"
I am sitting there thinking to myself this is a lie! I am being deceived!
he explained that he only cares about major lie to cover a crime or to get out of trouble etc.. hes not concerned about ones "does my ass look fat in these jeans"
and I thought to myself during this explanation well a glass with water half way up is it half full or half empty. no matter what it's still a glass with water in it. and being I read the bible allot I know from a religious point that it doesn't matter a lie is a lie. therefore the answer to the question is "YES"
so when I was asked this I paused for a min and started running the numbers in my head.
1. people sleep on average eight hours a night (56 a week)
2. people work an average 9 hours (45) one hour lunch included
3. times to travel to and from work and other hobbies can reduce time. so will will stop there and use 7 to 5 hours (leap year not included)
5*5 = 25 hours + 2 days off minus sleep = 25+16 = 41 hours
41 * 52 weeks in a year = 2,132 hours a year
2,132 * by eight years = 17,056
The probability that you lied at least once a day to a family member would only last about 1 to 3 mins as a way to "end" a conversation
Using the same formula. that works out to less then 3.26 to 1.5 hours in the past eight years your asked about.
Therefore this is a controlled question that is assumed that you will be lying if you say no. and that is what they want a comparison lie to determine if your telling the truth
Even if my math and figures are wrong I worked the math out in less 20 secs for some reason in the test I came to 933 hour a year. But still it doesn't matter. Conversations are like dreams the further we get away from it the harder it is to remember what was said. same reason people get caught lying.
Also anyone who has watch the show "The 1st 48" The officer always talk about the 1st 48 hours being the most important, after that details of a crime become faded and each passing hour more and more details of a crime will be lost and the probability of solving a crime is reduced.
Also the Magic trick stim test is another trick based on a already established police method. If they ever receive a ransom note they will take all the note pads out of the house for a comparison. If anyone remembers the JonBenét Ramsey case would remember they found that the ransom note was believed to be the 3rd note written based on impression of the pen left from the author.
So what does any of this have to do with you?
If your an analytical person and question anything your told you will almost certainly fail
From reading posts from George and watching his You tube videos it appears he is a very extremely analytical I am willing to bet he questioned the things he was being told in his mind. that raised a body response.
Having a background ground in Computer Sci, I know the Machine it's self can not separate what emotion you maybe feeling and to assume that your reaction to any question that raises a doubt in your mind will cause the answer to be "untruthful" even when it's not.
So I answered Yes to have you lied to a love one! It made scene I understood the it's forced to make me lie. what I was failing to realize was the examiners logic. But once I read a few sites plus him telling me about this one I now understood the method. It was at this point that the examiner stopped the test and asked me why I was lying. when I know I was telling the truth based on the quick math I ran in my head the examiner stated he wanted me to lie. Now being in shock and confused I could not wrap my brain around the logic. Now I am going well "Duh!"
So I explained I would not lie the question is so vague and broad spanned over eight years there is no way for anyone to remember all conversations therefore it is a deceptive question again "Duh!" He told me that he would explain everything when the test was done. but at this point I feel lied too and so confused. I told him "we are done get this "$$$$" off me"
My advice take a personality disposition test. May have other names for it. PDT etc. most corp jobs require it now. and I believable it was part of the ISO 9000 to 2000