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Topic summary

Posted by T.M. Cullen
 - Jul 02, 2008, 04:16 AM
QuoteIf you try them [countermeasures] and fail, rest assured it is likely because you employed countermeasures.

Well, that has been debated here ad barfeaum.  

On the one hand, polygraphers claim they can detect the employment of countermeasures, with their magic "woopie cushions"...etc.  On the other hand, they claim the employment of CMs is a total waste of time and not likely fool them.

So why, then, are polygraphers so preoccupied with detecting something that they claim can not "trick" them and foil the process?

Why?  Because if applied correctly, they probably do work, which is why polygraphers are so eager to know if they are being used against them.  OTOH, they have a vested public relations interest in discouraging the use of CMs by claiming they simply don't work.

Please feel free to reply.  We encourage open debate from all sides here.

TC



Posted by Sergeant1107
 - Jul 01, 2008, 09:46 PM
Quote from: advice for all on Jul 01, 2008, 04:52 AMJust so there is at least one positive post on this site.  I want to say that I had a very positive experience with my poly.  I did it for the secret service and passed.  The questions were straight foward and the examiner was polite and helpful.  So for all of you who are thinking of employing countermeasures DON'T I did not and I still passed.  If you try them and fail rest assured it is likely because you employed countermeasures.  Again just go in, be calm, listen to the instructions, and relax.  Trust me even those of us with some infractions in our past can "beat the box"

If being calm, listening to the instructions, and relaxing (not to mention telling the truth), were the only requirements for passing a polygraph I would have passed all four instead of failing the first three.

If you walked into a casino and dropped a silver dollar in the nearest one-armed bandit and won, would you consider it valid advice to say, "To win money at slots, just relax, go the first machine you see, drop in a dollar and pull the lever."

People who follow your advice will undoubtedly pass some of the time.  They will also fail some of the time.  The percentages of each are debatable, but no one can claim that either is zero.  If the polygraph was a worthwhile detector of deception a subject would be able to pass by telling the truth.  That simply doesn't happen often enough to justify any faith in the polygraph as a detector of deception.
Posted by T.M. Cullen
 - Jul 01, 2008, 05:13 PM
Advice for All,

I am very confident in the whole process.  There is a 86-98% accuracy rate.  Pretty hard to beat.  I am so confident in fact, that I am forcing my wife to take the test.  I suspect she has been receiving "special packages" from the mail man.  I am willing to let the TEST results determine the future status of our marriage.  Isn't science just wonderful!  All she has to do is go in there and relax and tell the truth.

Unfortunately, some of the knuckleheads on this board have been swayed by the propaganda put out by those know-nothings at the National Academy of Sciences.   Also, they actually believe they were tested FALSE POSITIVE on the polygraph.  Well, they may THINK they were telling the truth, but how could that be if they failed the test?  How do they really KNOW they were telling the truth without scientific verification?  Unless of course, you are willing to risk trusting the faculties of your own mind over a scroll of graph paper!

If a doctor measures your temperature, and tells you you have a 103 fever, yet you claim you have no fever, who would you believe?  And let there be no doubt, the results measured by a polygraph device are just as accurate as the results from a thermometer.   If your autonomic nervous system reacts while answering a question, there is only a 2% chance you are not lying.  Ask any polygrapher!

BTW, If you don't believe the above, then you must be a child molester or working for Al Qaeda!

TC
Posted by notguilty1
 - Jul 01, 2008, 11:28 AM
Quote from: advice for all on Jul 01, 2008, 04:52 AMJust so there is at least one positive post on this site.  I want to say that I had a very positive experience with my poly.  I did it for the secret service and passed.  The questions were straight foward and the examiner was polite and helpful.  So for all of you who are thinking of employing countermeasures DON'T I did not and I still passed.  If you try them and fail rest assured it is likely because you employed countermeasures.  Again just go in, be calm, listen to the instructions, and relax.  Trust me even those of us with some infractions in our past can "beat the box"


Your experience and advise because of it is no more accurate than me telling you that you can infact predict the outcome of a coin toss because I just happened to call it and was right.
Unfortunaltly, the test is no "test" at all and just a way to interrogate a subject post test or in some cases pre test.
I am glad the ploy went your way and that you may move on to a rewarding carrier in secret service. However don't kid yourself .... they are not relying on the poly to establish your worthiness for the job. Good luck
Posted by George W. Maschke
 - Jul 01, 2008, 05:16 AM
If your advice to "just go in, be calm, listen to the instructions, and relax" (while answering the relevant questions truthfully) -- which is, incidentally, the standard advice given by polygraph operators -- guaranteed that one would pass the polygraph, then this website would not exist. I followed your advice twice while sitting for law enforcement pre-employment polygraph examinations. The first time I was falsely accused of deception, and the second time I was falsely accused of employing countermeasures. (I didn't even know what polygraph countermeasures are at the time.) Many others have had similar experiences:

https://antipolygraph.org/statements.shtml

Polygraph countermeasures provide truthful examinees with a means of protecting themselves against the very serious risk of a false positive outcome, and it is for this reason that we provide detailed information about them in The Lie Behind the Lie Detector (1 mb PDF):

https://antipolygraph.org/lie-behind-the-lie-detector.pdf

We encourage readers may make their own, informed judgments about whether to use countermeasures.
Posted by advice for all
 - Jul 01, 2008, 04:52 AM
Just so there is at least one positive post on this site.  I want to say that I had a very positive experience with my poly.  I did it for the secret service and passed.  The questions were straight foward and the examiner was polite and helpful.  So for all of you who are thinking of employing countermeasures DON'T I did not and I still passed.  If you try them and fail rest assured it is likely because you employed countermeasures.  Again just go in, be calm, listen to the instructions, and relax.  Trust me even those of us with some infractions in our past can "beat the box"