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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by T.M. Cullen
- Apr 23, 2008, 02:31 PMQuoteIt's also like waiting for any polygrapher to admit that their claims shouldn't be taken on faith but only on grounds of reason after considering the arguments. But, of course, they can't do that: they do expect people to accept the Polygraph as a matter of faith, not of reason.
It wouldn't even occur to one of them to make a reasoned argument free of logical fallacies in favor of the polygraph.
Well, they get paid either way, and the public buys the myth.
So what the ......
TC
Posted by Lethe
- Apr 21, 2008, 05:48 PMQuote from: Lethe on Apr 21, 2008, 04:40 PM
LOL. Getting a truthful answer out of Sackett is like, well, there is nothing to compare it with, because we have never gotten a truthful answer out of Sackett.
It's also like waiting for any polygrapher to admit that their claims shouldn't be taken on faith but only on grounds of reason after considering the arguments. But, of course, they can't do that: they do expect people to accept the Polygraph as a matter of faith, not of reason.
It wouldn't even occur to one of them to make a reasoned argument free of logical fallacies in favor of the polygraph.
Posted by nopolycop
- Apr 21, 2008, 04:40 PMQuote from: 163F2E323F5A0 on Apr 21, 2008, 03:31 PM
If you answer either question truthfully, or can direct me to a readily available source that does, then I'll shut up--happily! Until then, go pray at your altar to the Polygraph for the salvation of your eternal soul.
LOL. Getting a truthful answer out of Sackett is like, well, there is nothing to compare it with, because we have never gotten a truthful answer out of Sackett.
Posted by nopolycop
- Apr 21, 2008, 04:36 PMQuote from: Lethe on Apr 21, 2008, 02:46 PMQuote from: Lethe on Apr 21, 2008, 01:10 PMQuote from: Lethe on Apr 21, 2008, 11:25 AMYou sir, as usual, have little to contribute and waaaaayyyyy too much time on your hands...
Sackett
At least he is not at work, getting paid by LVMPD to post here. Wonder what your supervisors would think?
Uh, I think they would want to know why Metro is paying my salary (since that's not where I work) and why haven't I silenced all the ignorance spouted on this board.
Yep! That's pretty much what they would wonder...
Sackett
P.S. Me on the other hand am wondering if you really are a cop? Seems you missed the report writing instruction that you should never put your opinion or supposition in writing. So much for your investigative abilities.
1) Okay, so not LVMPD. It was worth a shot, consider it a False Negative. Afterall, even the best make mistakes...
2) You haven't silence the ignorance on this board, because polygraphers such as yourself keep posting here attempting to confuse the issue presented by the numerous folks who have been royally screwed by poly examiners like you. When you lead a concerted effort to rid this board of poly examiners, then you will really be accomplishing this goal you have set for yourself.
3) I really don't give a rats A$$ if you think I am a cop or not. But, as for report writing and opinion, it certainly was part of the report writing that I took back in the 70's that it was legitimate for an officer to include an opinion, as long it was identified as such. Lastly, the last time I looked this bulletin board was not a police report, but instead an opinion sharing forum.
Posted by Lethe
- Apr 21, 2008, 03:31 PMI hate to get away from the free publicity that I'm giving to your new church, Sackett, but your last message warrants a response. Here is some examples of an unanswerable question that your guild cannot respond to:
If you answer either question truthfully, or can direct me to a readily available source that does, then I'll shut up--happily! Until then, go pray at your altar to the Polygraph for the salvation of your eternal soul.
- What is the purpose of the deception employed by the polygrapher in a PLCQ test if, as you claim, the purpose is not to increase the accuracy of the exam?
- If, as you claim, knowledge of how the PLCQ test really works does not effect the accuracy of results, why do polygraphers go to such extreme measures to keep such information from people and to discredit those who provide that information?
If you answer either question truthfully, or can direct me to a readily available source that does, then I'll shut up--happily! Until then, go pray at your altar to the Polygraph for the salvation of your eternal soul.
Posted by sackett
- Apr 21, 2008, 03:09 PMQuote from: 2D04150904610 on Apr 21, 2008, 02:54 PMWhen interviewed, I also mentioned the propensity of COPs to use ad hominem attacks against those who question them in lieu of actual answers. I was disappointed that this wasn't included in the final story.
Dr. Lethe, PhD
Well, sometimes the absence of information (or in your case response) is just as informative as a well thought out commentary that one's opponents will fail to comprehend. A state of frustration that I perpetually live with, given the personalities on this board.
With that said, your dissapointment is understood...
Sackett
Posted by Lethe
- Apr 21, 2008, 02:54 PMWhen interviewed, I also mentioned the propensity of COPs to use ad hominem attacks against those who question them in lieu of actual answers. I was disappointed that this wasn't included in the final story.
Dr. Lethe, PhD
Dr. Lethe, PhD
Posted by sackett
- Apr 21, 2008, 02:46 PMQuote from: Lethe on Apr 21, 2008, 01:10 PMQuote from: Lethe on Apr 21, 2008, 11:25 AMYou sir, as usual, have little to contribute and waaaaayyyyy too much time on your hands...
Sackett
At least he is not at work, getting paid by LVMPD to post here. Wonder what your supervisors would think?
Uh, I think they would want to know why Metro is paying my salary (since that's not where I work) and why haven't I silenced all the ignorance spouted on this board.
Yep! That's pretty much what they would wonder...
Sackett
P.S. Me on the other hand am wondering if you really are a cop? Seems you missed the report writing instruction that you should never put your opinion or supposition in writing. So much for your investigative abilities.
Posted by nopolycop
- Apr 21, 2008, 01:10 PMQuote from: Lethe on Apr 21, 2008, 11:25 AMYou sir, as usual, have little to contribute and waaaaayyyyy too much time on your hands...
Sackett
At least he is not at work, getting paid by LVMPD to post here. Wonder what your supervisors would think?
Posted by sackett
- Apr 21, 2008, 11:25 AMYou sir, as usual, have little to contribute and waaaaayyyyy too much time on your hands...
Sackett
Sackett
Posted by Lethe
- Apr 21, 2008, 02:52 AMI'm posting this not because I was interviewed for the story (well, not just because of that), but on account of the interest I think it may generate.
Dr. Lethe, PhD.
Quote
The American Polygraph Association has founded it's own religion, the Church of the Polygraph (COP), Adherents, called Cops, believe that the polygraph is divine and worship it as the one true God and creator of the universe. "The Polygraph is all that is, or ever was, or ever will be," said Barry Cushman, formerly a Christian chaplain before converting. "I reject Jesus Christ," says Cushman, "I have accepted the Polygraph as my personal lord and savior." As a licensed polygrapher, Cushman forms part of the priestly caste for the new religion and presides over the weekly sacraments, polygraphing church members, at the First Church of the Polygraph in Windham, Maine.
Archbishop Donnie Dutton, formerly president of the American Polygraph Association, says the new sect is not an offshoot of any existing religion but is based on divine revelation directly from the Polygraph. He claims that there are "studies" that prove this, but declined to provide them to reporters. "Just keep reading, you'll come to have faith," Dutton told them while insisting that the "studies" resolved all of the apparent problems with Church doctrine. He condemned the National Academy of Sciences for not endorsing the Church, saying that no one really cares what they think anyway.
Lacking faith in the Polygraph is considered the "Unforgivable Sin" according to Cops. People are tempted to doubt by a supernatural being they call the Maschke, who bears a strong resemblance to Satan in Christian and Islamic belief. According to the Book of Truth, the main COP scripture, the Maschke was once an angel of light, but failed a polygraph exam and so turned against the Polygraph and was cast out of heaven, forced to roam the Earth with his demonic minions trying to make others doubt the deity. However, the Church's eschatology indicates that the Maschke will be defeated by the Polygraph and cast into bottomless perdition, there to dwell in adamantine chains and penal fire, for daring to defy the omnipotent.
One Church missionary, who goes by the screen name nonombre, urges all to repent of their doubt and to stop thinking. "Logic is of the enemy," he said, "as is curiosity and questioning. People should trust whatever answers they get from the Priests; they don't have the wisdom to think on their own--don't they see that they risk being damned and that we're only trying to help?"
In a possible violation of the Constitution's establishment clause, Congress has declared the Church of the Polygraph the official religion of the U.S. Government, albeit not of the nation. "His Holiness, Archbishop Dutton, has told me that his Church is true," said President Bush at a press conference last week. "That's good enough for me, though I admit I don't understand how it's supposed to work." Despite opposition from the ACLU and threats of a lawsuit, the move has bipartisan support; Nancy Pelosi explains that, while she doesn't understand how the Polygraph will bring salvation, she is sure that it will since the Church told her so, "and they wouldn't lie, would they?"
Dr. Lethe, PhD has called the claims of the Church of the Polygraph into question. "Yes, they would lie--even to elected policy makers--in order to forward their own agenda," he said. "This is a huge money-making enterprise, the polygraph industrial complex is massive," said Dr. Lethe. "But Church members think that they have a right to lie since they know what is best for everyone else. They also have convinced themselves that they're not doing it for themselves, they're doing it to save others."
Church members disagree. "There's a lot of bad information out there about the Church," said Jack Trimarco, head of the Los Angeles area Cathedral, which uses the FBI seal as it's logo. "Basically, anything that questions the Church is wrong, and anything that we say is right. It's as simple as that." Bishop Skip Webb says that if a person needs to hear a valid argument before converting, that person is already in the clutches of the Maschke and will never accept any argument. Therefore, he says they never try to reason anyone into the faith. "We prefer to use fear, it works much better for us," Webb said.
"This is where the problem is," said Dr. Lethe. "They are 100% convinced that they have the only way to salvation, and, of course, if true that's pretty important. However, if they let people consider the doctrines of their faith on the merits, some will accept it and some will reject it. And since we're talking about eternal damnation for those who reject the doctrine, along with greatly diminished tithes and offerings to the Church, they are unwilling to give people the opportunity to think about this for themselves." Dr. Lethe said the Church uses fear and misinformation to manipulate people into accepting their doctrines and is very quick to excommunicate members who don't accept the first answers proffered to any questions they voice.
Dr. Lethe, PhD.