- Welcome to AntiPolygraph.org Message Board.
A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by Batman (Guest)
- May 31, 2002, 09:20 PMBatman....WRONG?!? I'll have to think about that for a second.
OK, I have the answer. Batman has been wrong as many times as you folks on this sight say someone used countermeasures and still failed the polygraph. So far that's only once.
Batman
OK, I have the answer. Batman has been wrong as many times as you folks on this sight say someone used countermeasures and still failed the polygraph. So far that's only once.
Batman
Posted by DEPUTY BEAR
- May 31, 2002, 08:05 PMHoly hostility batman,
I really didn't see it and now that you have pointed it out I agree with your assumption that he was being dishonest. But by your rambling on I can see that you need some serious therapy. I only hope you are not in law enforcement and have the opportunity to take out these repressed aggressions on undeserving citizens (the deserving however, go ahead and beat the hell out of them, I know they're out there). Secondly, your anologies...well to get on your level, suck ass. Comparing a my statement to breaking a nose...once again, get professional help. You will sleep better.
And check this out "I WAS WRONG". Now the question is have you ever said that?
I really didn't see it and now that you have pointed it out I agree with your assumption that he was being dishonest. But by your rambling on I can see that you need some serious therapy. I only hope you are not in law enforcement and have the opportunity to take out these repressed aggressions on undeserving citizens (the deserving however, go ahead and beat the hell out of them, I know they're out there). Secondly, your anologies...well to get on your level, suck ass. Comparing a my statement to breaking a nose...once again, get professional help. You will sleep better.
And check this out "I WAS WRONG". Now the question is have you ever said that?
Posted by beech trees
- May 31, 2002, 04:21 PMQuote from: Batman on May 31, 2002, 01:27 PMdo you think he means he was telling the truth and he passed, or do you think he means what he wrote, that he "beat" the polygraph?
Although your questions were not directed towards me, I'll horn in and say I think it means he was honest on all his application forms, he was found to be a worthy law enforcement officer candidate by his background investigators, he was found to be medically and psychologically fit by professionals in those respected fields of medicine, and thus he served well as a police officer for those two departments-- as an added bonus he knew The Lie Behind The Lie Detector and simply beat you at your own game in order to secure the career of his choice. I can understand your bitterness, however, as it now seems only one party, the bureaucracy of the police department, believes your lies-- and even they are beginning to see the truth. How frustrating it must be for you to see your livelihood, and the pleasure you receive from disqualifying good, honest, hard-working men & women from jobs in law enforcement, slowly dwindle as your bleatings become ever-increasingly irrelevant.
QuoteThird, I ask again, if one knows a requirement for a job or career is something they do not care to fulfill, then why not pick a different career path?
I'd wager that most men and women who desire a career in law enforcement care to fulfill the requirement of passing the polygraph if the department they want to work for is under the mistaken assumption that polygraphs can detect lies. I can't speak for George and Gino but I think that's at least partially why this website exists-- to help honest people understand how to surmount this ridiculous obstacle to getting what they want out of their lives.
QuoteYou know, if being a professional basketball player requires that I be able to dunk the ball but I can't then maybe I should look at being a professional hockey player, or baseball player, or a greeter at Wal-mart.
You still don't get it. We're on to you, polygrapher. This has NOTHING to do with a candidate's ability to perform his or her job. This has EVERYTHING to do with taking control of the application process and ensuring that the coin-toss lands on heads every time.
QuoteIt sure beats being a professional cry baby, or a professional complainer about the "system" and how it is so unfair to me because I can't tell the truth about my past, who I was, who I am, or take responsibility for my actions, past, present, and future. If you made a "mistake" (nice way of saying breaking the law) in the past, own up to it man. If it means you can't get a particular job, so be it, just stop crying about how unfair the system is. If you want to change the system, then get polygraph outlawed, but until then wipe the tears and get on with life.
Thanks to hard work and a majority of votes in Congress and the Senate, your profession is already outlawed to a great extent. The Philly Hotbox is closed for business. Which department is next? Hopefully yours.
No one is crying, except you. This website is filled with positive, proactive information. Certainly, there are sections documenting the travesties and ruination your brethren have heaped upon many people, and indeed many of the initial posts here are from people wrongly accused of deception, drug use, criminal activity, etc. Characterizing these good people as 'professional cry-babies' is so patronizing, so arrogant, so amazingly illustrative of your profession's hubris that I will refrain from further comment.
"I think that there are a lot of applicants who we've lost who would have made outstanding police officers that, because they couldn't pass the polygraph, were rejected," the commissioner said.
Is Police Commissioner Johnson a crybaby?
Posted by Batman (Guest)
- May 31, 2002, 01:27 PMDeputy (Which way did he go...),
6th & 7th line down on Woody's posting 5/28/02, 4:05:07, he states, "...could my confidence in beating the polygraph on the other two occasions...".
Wathcha think there Deputy? First, did he write it or not? Second, do you think he means he was telling the truth and he passed, or do you think he means what he wrote, that he "beat" the polygraph? Third, I ask again, if one knows a requirement for a job or career is something they do not care to fulfill, then why not pick a different career path?
You know, if being a professional basketball player requires that I be able to dunk the ball but I can't then maybe I should look at being a professional hockey player, or baseball player, or a greeter at Wal-mart. It sure beats being a professional cry baby, or a professional complainer about the "system" and how it is so unfair to me because I can't tell the truth about my past, who I was, who I am, or take responsibility for my actions, past, present, and future. If you made a "mistake" (nice way of saying breaking the law) in the past, own up to it man. If it means you can't get a particular job, so be it, just stop crying about how unfair the system is. If you want to change the system, then get polygraph outlawed, but until then wipe the tears and get on with life.
By the way, I like your little disclaimer, just after and before your slams of me, "If it is there and I didn't see it, ok." I guess that's a good CYA. Kind of like punching someone in the nose, and then saying, "Hey if I broke your nose I'm sorry." Be a man, and take responsibility for your slams, as well as for your screw ups, Deputy.
BATMAN (and worthy of the name)
6th & 7th line down on Woody's posting 5/28/02, 4:05:07, he states, "...could my confidence in beating the polygraph on the other two occasions...".
Wathcha think there Deputy? First, did he write it or not? Second, do you think he means he was telling the truth and he passed, or do you think he means what he wrote, that he "beat" the polygraph? Third, I ask again, if one knows a requirement for a job or career is something they do not care to fulfill, then why not pick a different career path?
You know, if being a professional basketball player requires that I be able to dunk the ball but I can't then maybe I should look at being a professional hockey player, or baseball player, or a greeter at Wal-mart. It sure beats being a professional cry baby, or a professional complainer about the "system" and how it is so unfair to me because I can't tell the truth about my past, who I was, who I am, or take responsibility for my actions, past, present, and future. If you made a "mistake" (nice way of saying breaking the law) in the past, own up to it man. If it means you can't get a particular job, so be it, just stop crying about how unfair the system is. If you want to change the system, then get polygraph outlawed, but until then wipe the tears and get on with life.
By the way, I like your little disclaimer, just after and before your slams of me, "If it is there and I didn't see it, ok." I guess that's a good CYA. Kind of like punching someone in the nose, and then saying, "Hey if I broke your nose I'm sorry." Be a man, and take responsibility for your slams, as well as for your screw ups, Deputy.
BATMAN (and worthy of the name)
Posted by DEPUTY BEAR
- May 30, 2002, 07:45 PMBATMAN,
Where does woody mention "beating" his last two polys? I didn't find that language in any of his two post. If it is there and I didn't see it ok. If you are paraphrasing to incite,...well then you aren't worthy of the name "Batman". If you can't read, and you are assuming then you should know assume is three words.
Where does woody mention "beating" his last two polys? I didn't find that language in any of his two post. If it is there and I didn't see it ok. If you are paraphrasing to incite,...well then you aren't worthy of the name "Batman". If you can't read, and you are assuming then you should know assume is three words.
Posted by Batman (Guest)
- May 30, 2002, 06:03 PMWoody:
You mentioned "beating" your other two polygraphs. Does this mean you lied during them but did not get caught, because you used some sort of countermeasure? If so, maybe this time you did get caught. What's the big deal, you're batting .666!
In the big leagues that would guarantee you a multimillion dollar salary.
Ever consider a career path that doesn't require a polygraph? Would save you a lot of pain and suffering.
Batman
You mentioned "beating" your other two polygraphs. Does this mean you lied during them but did not get caught, because you used some sort of countermeasure? If so, maybe this time you did get caught. What's the big deal, you're batting .666!
In the big leagues that would guarantee you a multimillion dollar salary.Ever consider a career path that doesn't require a polygraph? Would save you a lot of pain and suffering.
Batman
Posted by beech trees
- May 28, 2002, 12:25 PMFirst, The State Supreme Court in Connecticut has consistently ruled that polygraphs are inadmmisable in court, both in civil and criminal trials. In 1997, they opined:
This court has repeatedly held that neither the results of a polygraph test nor the willingness of a witness to take such a test is admissible in Connecticut courts... The questionable accuracy of polygraph tests combined with their aura of scientific reliability has led this court to follow the traditional rule rendering such evidence inadmissible." (State v. Porter, 241 Conn. 57, 94 (1997)
It would appear the Supreme Court of Connecticut has seen the Emperor naked, and know that polygraphs are a pseudo-scientific fraud.
Section 31-51g of the CT Code reads:
Use of polygraph prohibited. Penalty. Exceptions. (a) For the purposes of this section "polygraph" means any mechanical or electrical instrument or device of any type used or allegedly used to examine, test or question individuals for the purpose of determining truthfulness.
(b) (1) No person, firm, corporation, association or the state or any political subdivision thereof shall request or require any prospective employee or any employee to submit to, or take, a polygraph examination as a condition of obtaining employment or of continuing employment with such employer or dismiss or discipline in any manner an employee for failing, refusing or declining to submit to or take a polygraph examination. (2) No employment agency, as defined in section 31-129, and no agent for an employer shall require any person to submit to, or take, a polygraph examination for any purposes whatsoever.
(c) Any person, firm, corporation or association which violates any provision of this section shall be fined not less than two hundred fifty dollars nor more than one thousand dollars for each violation.
(d) The provisions of this section shall not apply to persons to be employed (1) by the state or any local government or any political subdivision thereof in any police department except for civilian employees within the department or (2) by the Department of Correction, but shall apply with respect to obtaining and maintaining employment of other persons by the state or any local government or political subdivision thereof.
So, your profession is exempt from the polygraph exclusion, but there is also no law on the books concerning the testing procedure.
Connecticut seems to be extremely anti-polygraph, so you probably have leverage to appeal this 'non-decision' and ask for a retest at least. After reading The Lie Behind The Lie Detector and practicing a bit, you will pass easily.
This court has repeatedly held that neither the results of a polygraph test nor the willingness of a witness to take such a test is admissible in Connecticut courts... The questionable accuracy of polygraph tests combined with their aura of scientific reliability has led this court to follow the traditional rule rendering such evidence inadmissible." (State v. Porter, 241 Conn. 57, 94 (1997)
It would appear the Supreme Court of Connecticut has seen the Emperor naked, and know that polygraphs are a pseudo-scientific fraud.
Section 31-51g of the CT Code reads:
Use of polygraph prohibited. Penalty. Exceptions. (a) For the purposes of this section "polygraph" means any mechanical or electrical instrument or device of any type used or allegedly used to examine, test or question individuals for the purpose of determining truthfulness.
(b) (1) No person, firm, corporation, association or the state or any political subdivision thereof shall request or require any prospective employee or any employee to submit to, or take, a polygraph examination as a condition of obtaining employment or of continuing employment with such employer or dismiss or discipline in any manner an employee for failing, refusing or declining to submit to or take a polygraph examination. (2) No employment agency, as defined in section 31-129, and no agent for an employer shall require any person to submit to, or take, a polygraph examination for any purposes whatsoever.
(c) Any person, firm, corporation or association which violates any provision of this section shall be fined not less than two hundred fifty dollars nor more than one thousand dollars for each violation.
(d) The provisions of this section shall not apply to persons to be employed (1) by the state or any local government or any political subdivision thereof in any police department except for civilian employees within the department or (2) by the Department of Correction, but shall apply with respect to obtaining and maintaining employment of other persons by the state or any local government or political subdivision thereof.
So, your profession is exempt from the polygraph exclusion, but there is also no law on the books concerning the testing procedure.
Connecticut seems to be extremely anti-polygraph, so you probably have leverage to appeal this 'non-decision' and ask for a retest at least. After reading The Lie Behind The Lie Detector and practicing a bit, you will pass easily.
Posted by woody
- May 28, 2002, 07:05 AMI'm in the same boat. I took my third polygraph with a police department I was applying for. My wife and I had high hopes for the postion, I also was given an inconclusive result. I don't know what to do. I don't know if I should request a re-test or file a complaint with the department of labor. The examiner attempted to upset me several times prior to the test, this is the only difference between the other two tests. I have worked for two prior police departments, could my confidence in beating the polygraph on the other two occasions affected my test? I live in CT. If you are familiar with laws CT. has in reference to polygraph inconclusive results or examiners conduct prior to a test, I would much appreciate it. It was quite a blow to my wife and I as I was one of the three to be hired for the three positions being filled. I am angry and confused as to what my step should be, I don't like rocking the boat or potentially causing my self harm with further employers. CT has only one firm that conducts poly's, Associated Detectives. What a crock! I am being forced to take a job in corrections so I can pay my bills etc... It is not my first career choice by any means. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- May 04, 2002, 05:23 PMAn "inconconclusive" outcome indicates that your physiological responses to the "control" questions were about as strong as your responses to the relevant questions. See Ch. 3 of the 2nd edition of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector for more on how polygraph charts are scored.
If your application were with the FBI, your application would in all likelihood be rejected at this point, and you'd eventually receive a form letter telling you that your polygraph results were "not within acceptable parameters." But there's no way to predict what decision the agency with which you've applied may take. To prepare for the worst, review the suggests for appeal procedures in Ch. 5 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector.
If your application were with the FBI, your application would in all likelihood be rejected at this point, and you'd eventually receive a form letter telling you that your polygraph results were "not within acceptable parameters." But there's no way to predict what decision the agency with which you've applied may take. To prepare for the worst, review the suggests for appeal procedures in Ch. 5 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector.
Posted by simplymattb
- May 04, 2002, 02:39 PMyes it was a typo sorry 
Posted by BEAR
- May 04, 2002, 01:40 AMUNLESS THIS IS A TYPO YOU WILL HAVE A PROBLEM
4) were you truthfull about ever being arrested............NO
5) were you truthfull about your drug usage..............NO
4) were you truthfull about ever being arrested............NO
5) were you truthfull about your drug usage..............NO
Posted by simplymattb
- May 03, 2002, 11:25 PMOk here is what happend, first a quick background todat was my 2nd poly my 1st one was in jan 2002 it when very well it was given on a lap top and he asked me about 24 questions and it lasted maybe 30 mins. he said i showed one bad answer and it was did i ever steal anything other than what I listed over 10 dollars I explained to him I was thinking about mp3's cause my investigator told me it wasnt stealing so not to list it. He was then satisfied and he said I was A ok. Well now I am testing with a different department the 1st department wanted to hire me but i turned them down since other departments have better pay and more of what I want.
SO today I got to the poly 100% confident and in a great mood just graduated the academy last night so i get there he gives me a packet same packet as my first poly no prob I wiz through the packet in 5 mins then off to the room i see the old poly machine not a new computer one. he sits me down and we go over the packet then we go over the questions he asked me 10 questions like these
1) are you in florida.......YES
2) Did you omit anything from you packet.......NO
3) were you completly truthfull in your packet......YES
4) were you truthfull about ever being arrested............YES
5) were you truthfull about your drug usage..............YES
6) were you truthfull about you work history........YES
7) have you ever lost or betrayed the trust of a loved one or friend........NO
since the age of 17 have you ever lied about something very important.
there where 2 more i dont remember.
Well anyways, we knock this out then he brings me back in and talks about some + and - numbers and etc and tell me the test should inaccruate results. he said he might not be asking me the right questions or i might have family problems or something else on my mind. He also stated I was not be deceptive at all and he then said I belive you but I cant open your brain and confirm this. so he said he would tell the dept that I wasnt decpetive at all but the test was inconclusive?
?? He then stated that less than 1% of the people he tests have this problem? So when I asked him what do i do he said its up to the deptment and that somtimes they will do some B.I then redo the poly he then said sometimes they might let me go or they might just take these results becuase I showed no signs of deception. When he asked me what I was thinking I told him I was just relaxing I was so relaxed I was almost dozing off between questions. he then asked how hard did I concentrate on the questions. I said I dont know I thought about it but didnt pound it into my head. I told him that I was very calm and relaxing and just ready to get this over with since I passed my last one and told the truth so I felt I could cruise by this one. I then called my recruiter and she told me that he has been used by them for a long time so they will respect his opinion but then she said she wanted to review his report since this has never happend?
What happend guys, I didnt lie is it me the machine the examiner? or was I just to lax during this test, please let me know what you guys think.
Thanks,
Matt
SO today I got to the poly 100% confident and in a great mood just graduated the academy last night so i get there he gives me a packet same packet as my first poly no prob I wiz through the packet in 5 mins then off to the room i see the old poly machine not a new computer one. he sits me down and we go over the packet then we go over the questions he asked me 10 questions like these
1) are you in florida.......YES
2) Did you omit anything from you packet.......NO
3) were you completly truthfull in your packet......YES
4) were you truthfull about ever being arrested............YES
5) were you truthfull about your drug usage..............YES
6) were you truthfull about you work history........YES
7) have you ever lost or betrayed the trust of a loved one or friend........NO
since the age of 17 have you ever lied about something very important.there where 2 more i dont remember.
Well anyways, we knock this out then he brings me back in and talks about some + and - numbers and etc and tell me the test should inaccruate results. he said he might not be asking me the right questions or i might have family problems or something else on my mind. He also stated I was not be deceptive at all and he then said I belive you but I cant open your brain and confirm this. so he said he would tell the dept that I wasnt decpetive at all but the test was inconclusive?
?? He then stated that less than 1% of the people he tests have this problem? So when I asked him what do i do he said its up to the deptment and that somtimes they will do some B.I then redo the poly he then said sometimes they might let me go or they might just take these results becuase I showed no signs of deception. When he asked me what I was thinking I told him I was just relaxing I was so relaxed I was almost dozing off between questions. he then asked how hard did I concentrate on the questions. I said I dont know I thought about it but didnt pound it into my head. I told him that I was very calm and relaxing and just ready to get this over with since I passed my last one and told the truth so I felt I could cruise by this one. I then called my recruiter and she told me that he has been used by them for a long time so they will respect his opinion but then she said she wanted to review his report since this has never happend?What happend guys, I didnt lie is it me the machine the examiner? or was I just to lax during this test, please let me know what you guys think.
Thanks,
Matt