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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by LTCGUTZ
- Dec 30, 2010, 11:19 AMContact the State of California Department of Consumer's Affairs to launch a complaint, not APA. It appears based upon comments, the complaint is among the wrong doers. Can anyone elaborate? Also, if anyone did make a complaint with Consumer's Affairs, it is easy enough to verify.
Posted by sackett
- Apr 03, 2008, 10:35 PMGeorge,
"Whitewashing" investigations happens daily at every level of society and government. Politics, financial reasons, nepotism, etc are the factors behind it. Why is this one so different?
As for my posting above, I was making the obvious and sad fact that no matter what "we" do; "you" will never be satisfied with our actions until we are all, as someone has suggested, handing out parking tickets for a living.
Sackett
"Whitewashing" investigations happens daily at every level of society and government. Politics, financial reasons, nepotism, etc are the factors behind it. Why is this one so different?
As for my posting above, I was making the obvious and sad fact that no matter what "we" do; "you" will never be satisfied with our actions until we are all, as someone has suggested, handing out parking tickets for a living.
Sackett
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Apr 03, 2008, 04:21 PMQuote from: yankeedog on Apr 03, 2008, 03:19 PMI can agree with you "YD" the problem is that no matter what was issued by the APA, it would never be enough sanctions or punishment to fit those on this board.
I can see it now,
"After all that has been established and verified by the APA, they only went to the Marston school, pulled their charter and certification, burned the building to the ground and excommunicated it's graduates? What kind of oversight is that??? APA is corrupt, the APA is corrupt!!!"
Sheesh....
Sackett,
You're continuing to rationalize that which I think you know, deep down, was a whitewash by the APA.
Posted by sackett
- Apr 03, 2008, 03:19 PMI can agree with you "YD" the problem is that no matter what was issued by the APA, it would never be enough sanctions or punishment to fit those on this board.
I can see it now,
"After all that has been established and verified by the APA, they only went to the Marston school, pulled their charter and certification, burned the building to the ground and excommunicated it's graduates? What kind of oversight is that??? APA is corrupt, the APA is corrupt!!!"
Sheesh....
I can see it now,
"After all that has been established and verified by the APA, they only went to the Marston school, pulled their charter and certification, burned the building to the ground and excommunicated it's graduates? What kind of oversight is that??? APA is corrupt, the APA is corrupt!!!"
Sheesh....
Posted by yankeedog
- Apr 02, 2008, 08:26 PMQuote from: George_Maschke on Sep 06, 2007, 04:43 AMThe...truth is that the complaint against the Marston Polygraph Academy was fully confirmed, and the...truth is that the APA directors chose to sweep the problem under the rug. I am uploading the official report of inspection for all to see. These are the 4 main findings of fact:
First:
Marston Polygraph Academy is in clear violation of APA accreditation regulations governing
accurately scheduling and reporting school training schedule. All records indicate the school was
starting at 08:00AM and ending daily at 5:00 PM. These records do not accurately reflect the
school's training schedule.
Secondly,
Marston Polygraph Academy is clear violation of APA accredited training attendance
requirements in that the students were not receiving required time limits of for basic polygraph
course instruction.
Third:
Most seriously, this inspector finds that the printed syllabus clearly misrepresents the actual
schedule to the detriment of the students and professional training, this inspector believes that a
fraud has been perpetuated on those relying on the accuracy of the school's records and
representations. Representing that the Marston Polygraph Academy follows and adheres to APA
standards of basic polygraph training is misleading and untrue.
Fourth:
Regarding the statement alleged to have been made by personnel associated with the Marston
Polygraph Academy, "if you don't tell we won't either". In a frank discussion with PI Lynch, he
states that through some discussion with the students, a statement in some way similar to the one
above may have been made but according to him, it was not meant in context as it now sounds
out of context. This inspector finds that in or out of context, the statement was inappropriate if it
in any way it referred to APA oversight authority.
As a polygraph examiner and APA member, I find this whole matter to be.....disturbing. If the allegation was substantiated, and it appeared that it was based upon the on site inspection, then there should have been some form of sanction, such as a probationary period to ensure that the APA standards are being maintained. A lot of my friends are APA members who have served in APA offices and I do not agree with how the APA handled this.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Apr 02, 2008, 12:16 PMSackett,
Your loyalty to your profession has made you an apologist for fraud. The Marston Polygraph Academy was accused of a gross ethical violation (shortchanging students on training hours). Upon investigation, the accusation was found to be true. The American Polygraph Association's response has been to sweep the matter under the rug and ensure that any future anonymous allegations of wrongdoing will not be investigated. I don't see how anyone who is "dedicated to truth" can defend the APA's handling of this situation.
Your loyalty to your profession has made you an apologist for fraud. The Marston Polygraph Academy was accused of a gross ethical violation (shortchanging students on training hours). Upon investigation, the accusation was found to be true. The American Polygraph Association's response has been to sweep the matter under the rug and ensure that any future anonymous allegations of wrongdoing will not be investigated. I don't see how anyone who is "dedicated to truth" can defend the APA's handling of this situation.
Posted by sackett
- Apr 02, 2008, 11:25 AMGeorge,
you forgot to report that the Marston Academy immediately corrected their actions upon notification by the APA of it's deficiency.
I agree that the deficiency should not have existed in the first place, but it did. How come you haven't done any research on the hours "cut short" by the barber schools you like to compare us to, when they let their students out early...
Anyway, now the problem is fixed! Case closed, please move on to another perceived problem within the polygraph community.
Sackett
you forgot to report that the Marston Academy immediately corrected their actions upon notification by the APA of it's deficiency.
I agree that the deficiency should not have existed in the first place, but it did. How come you haven't done any research on the hours "cut short" by the barber schools you like to compare us to, when they let their students out early...
Anyway, now the problem is fixed! Case closed, please move on to another perceived problem within the polygraph community.
Sackett
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Apr 02, 2008, 06:07 AMDespite the allegations against the Marston Polygraph Academy having been confirmed by an inspection (see the report), it appears that the American Polygraph Association indeed took no disciplinary action against the San Bernardino, California, polygraph school, whose APA accreditation was neither revoked nor suspended.
Instead, having confirmed the truth of the anonymous report that one of its accredited schools was shortchanging students on hours, the APA's reported response is a rule change whereby anonymous allegations against polygraph schools will in the future not be investigated. Issue #141 of Polygraph Place's newsletter, The Relevant Issue reports:
Instead, having confirmed the truth of the anonymous report that one of its accredited schools was shortchanging students on hours, the APA's reported response is a rule change whereby anonymous allegations against polygraph schools will in the future not be investigated. Issue #141 of Polygraph Place's newsletter, The Relevant Issue reports:
Quote5. In the Private Forums - "Marston Polygraph Academy - Grievance brings side benefit. No more anonymous complaints."
A partial post from the examiner only private forums:
"The APA has, since the initiation of the investigation in that matter determined that it will, in the future, require that before an investigation is undertaken on the basis of a complaint made against an accredited APA school, such complaint must be in writing and identifying the name of the complainant.."
Posted by dedicated2truth
- Sep 06, 2007, 04:43 AMIt is with a heavy heart that I find myself compelled to post to this forum, of all places. But I can hold my tongue no longer. The sad truth is that the complaint against the Marston Polygraph Academy was fully confirmed, and the shameful truth is that the APA directors chose to sweep the problem under the rug. I am uploading the official report of inspection for all to see. These are the 4 main findings of fact:
First:
Marston Polygraph Academy is in clear violation of APA accreditation regulations governing
accurately scheduling and reporting school training schedule. All records indicate the school was
starting at 08:00AM and ending daily at 5:00 PM. These records do not accurately reflect the
school's training schedule.
Secondly,
Marston Polygraph Academy is clear violation of APA accredited training attendance
requirements in that the students were not receiving required time limits of for basic polygraph
course instruction.
Third:
Most seriously, this inspector finds that the printed syllabus clearly misrepresents the actual
schedule to the detriment of the students and professional training, this inspector believes that a
fraud has been perpetuated on those relying on the accuracy of the school's records and
representations. Representing that the Marston Polygraph Academy follows and adheres to APA
standards of basic polygraph training is misleading and untrue.
Fourth:
Regarding the statement alleged to have been made by personnel associated with the Marston
Polygraph Academy, "if you don't tell we won't either". In a frank discussion with PI Lynch, he
states that through some discussion with the students, a statement in some way similar to the one
above may have been made but according to him, it was not meant in context as it now sounds
out of context. This inspector finds that in or out of context, the statement was inappropriate if it
in any way it referred to APA oversight authority.
Future examiners choosing a polygraph school deserve to know the truth. Those directors of APA accredited schools who do abide by the rules deserve to know the truth. The APA rank and file deserves to know the truth. I am only sorry that I could find no better way to make the truth known than to post it here, and for that I apologize.
First:
Marston Polygraph Academy is in clear violation of APA accreditation regulations governing
accurately scheduling and reporting school training schedule. All records indicate the school was
starting at 08:00AM and ending daily at 5:00 PM. These records do not accurately reflect the
school's training schedule.
Secondly,
Marston Polygraph Academy is clear violation of APA accredited training attendance
requirements in that the students were not receiving required time limits of for basic polygraph
course instruction.
Third:
Most seriously, this inspector finds that the printed syllabus clearly misrepresents the actual
schedule to the detriment of the students and professional training, this inspector believes that a
fraud has been perpetuated on those relying on the accuracy of the school's records and
representations. Representing that the Marston Polygraph Academy follows and adheres to APA
standards of basic polygraph training is misleading and untrue.
Fourth:
Regarding the statement alleged to have been made by personnel associated with the Marston
Polygraph Academy, "if you don't tell we won't either". In a frank discussion with PI Lynch, he
states that through some discussion with the students, a statement in some way similar to the one
above may have been made but according to him, it was not meant in context as it now sounds
out of context. This inspector finds that in or out of context, the statement was inappropriate if it
in any way it referred to APA oversight authority.
Future examiners choosing a polygraph school deserve to know the truth. Those directors of APA accredited schools who do abide by the rules deserve to know the truth. The APA rank and file deserves to know the truth. I am only sorry that I could find no better way to make the truth known than to post it here, and for that I apologize.
Posted by JunkMan
- Aug 30, 2007, 08:51 AMQuote from: George W. Maschke on Aug 29, 2007, 01:25 AMLast week, the American Polygraph Association convened its 42nd annual seminar in New Orleans. The APA board of directors has presumably now had ample opportunity to consider the allegations against the Marston Polygraph Academy (which AntiPolygraph.org understands were confirmed through an on-site inspection). However, the APA continues to list the Marston Polygraph Academy as being among its "accredited" schools:
http://www.polygraph.org/schools.cfm
Almighty Dollar wins again
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Aug 29, 2007, 01:25 AMLast week, the American Polygraph Association convened its 42nd annual seminar in New Orleans. The APA board of directors has presumably now had ample opportunity to consider the allegations against the Marston Polygraph Academy (which AntiPolygraph.org understands were confirmed through an on-site inspection). However, the APA continues to list the Marston Polygraph Academy as being among its "accredited" schools:
http://www.polygraph.org/schools.cfm
http://www.polygraph.org/schools.cfm
Posted by 1904
- Jun 22, 2007, 05:30 AMA collective noun to describe the APA:
" a circus of clowns "
" a circus of clowns "
Posted by Administrator
- Jun 21, 2007, 01:15 PMAntiPolygraph.org has received the following anonymous communication:
QuoteMarston
Still no real investigation, still no punishment.
Caught in the act of greatly shorting hours, looks like APA is just gonna let 'em off with the promise not to do it again.
We knew this is how APA (now often called the 'Amateur Polygraph Association' because of the continual fiascos) would be handling it. Instead of finishing this with professionalism, APA would lose thousands of dollars this year if they removed their approval of this school thus losing future APA member dues from Marston students, so no punishment.
Blowhard TV O'Malley is all bark with no bite.
Students from prior classes were not contacted, which would have shown a pattern of shorting the hours.
APA has been increasingly worthless for over a decade now. Their 'approved schools' are often of lesser-quality than schools who choose not to involve APA. Notice that the 'Contact A Member' portion of their new website has been down for 6 months? That is because it reveals the sad low-low membership totals of today, closer to 500 paid US members than the 'thousands' they want you to believe; if that web portion is ever up & running again, count the members state-by-state; except for a few secret government examiners, everyone is listed. It is a dying organization, full of infighting and power-grabbing, hoping a fresh website will breathe life into it.
This non-investigation and non-punishment will be causing many members to not renew next time dues are due.
Posted by 1904
- May 17, 2007, 11:23 AMThe APA should grant MPA honorary membership status.
At least MPA was honest enough to cut the hours short.
Which is the worst sin - cutting short the hours in class;
OR
Feeding students war stories and anecdotal bullshit for
10 weeks.
It's a no-brainer.
As Ali Baba said "Welcome to my den of thieves"
At least MPA was honest enough to cut the hours short.
Which is the worst sin - cutting short the hours in class;
OR
Feeding students war stories and anecdotal bullshit for
10 weeks.
It's a no-brainer.
As Ali Baba said "Welcome to my den of thieves"
Posted by 1904
- May 17, 2007, 09:45 AMOne of the forum members questioned: What does it take to get the APA to react to unethical behaviour.
(What are they willing to tolerate)
I think -just about anything. My personal experience is that the APA is top heavy with unethical people and they protect their own. Nathan Gordon recently conducted a satellite school in South Africa in Feb 2007. He reportedly used two local examiners to assist him - neither having any professional qualifications. She reportedly used a foreign (european) psychologist who spoke with a heavy accent and whom was difficult to understand.
The APA should canvass the students for opinion and critique of that course.
S.A. Examiners that have not attended any basic accredited course, can attend a 2-Day refresher/ongoing credits course given by Chuck Slupski via a Preoria based company (Verdicus) and
are presented with APA certification.
Sort of makes a mockery of the entire 'APA Accredited' badge.
What's that old saying again......" it takes one to catch one..."
(What are they willing to tolerate)
I think -just about anything. My personal experience is that the APA is top heavy with unethical people and they protect their own. Nathan Gordon recently conducted a satellite school in South Africa in Feb 2007. He reportedly used two local examiners to assist him - neither having any professional qualifications. She reportedly used a foreign (european) psychologist who spoke with a heavy accent and whom was difficult to understand.
The APA should canvass the students for opinion and critique of that course.
S.A. Examiners that have not attended any basic accredited course, can attend a 2-Day refresher/ongoing credits course given by Chuck Slupski via a Preoria based company (Verdicus) and
are presented with APA certification.
Sort of makes a mockery of the entire 'APA Accredited' badge.
What's that old saying again......" it takes one to catch one..."