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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by Fred F.
- Mar 15, 2002, 12:55 AMBULLPOLY,
I would NOT recommend that. If you tested 10 years ago, your records are more than likely destroyed. However, if you have tested with other agencies and have jackets that are recent, this ploy may haunt you if they discover it.
Don't count on that being true. The LASD will be forgiving for marijuana, for hard drugs they will look how many times you claim to have used and how much time has elapsed. LAPD will NOT even consider anyone who has used hard drugs and admitted to such use.
These decisions are for you to make. I can't make a recommendation that you be dishonest on your app or in your jacket. The same holds true for using countermeasures with a polygraph, these are your personal decisions and you are aware of the risks involved.
Make the right decision
Fred F.
QuoteAre you saying if I reapply with LASD and state on my application that I never applied before, they probably would not have any record of me?
I would NOT recommend that. If you tested 10 years ago, your records are more than likely destroyed. However, if you have tested with other agencies and have jackets that are recent, this ploy may haunt you if they discover it.
QuoteI've heard that LASD and other departments have had to relax their drug usage standards because of a lack of applicants who never did anything wrong, especially drugs.
Don't count on that being true. The LASD will be forgiving for marijuana, for hard drugs they will look how many times you claim to have used and how much time has elapsed. LAPD will NOT even consider anyone who has used hard drugs and admitted to such use.
QuoteIf they do have a file but a one time experimentation is ok, then maybe I should just admit to it and use countermeasures to beat the poly, because I'm not at all concerned about anything else in my background
These decisions are for you to make. I can't make a recommendation that you be dishonest on your app or in your jacket. The same holds true for using countermeasures with a polygraph, these are your personal decisions and you are aware of the risks involved.
Make the right decision
Fred F.
Posted by BULLPOLY
- Mar 13, 2002, 01:31 AMThanks Fred F:
Your opinions are very logical. I feel much better now. But I still have some questions:
Are you saying if I reapply with LASD and state on my application that I never applied before, they probably would not have any record of me? My concern is specific. When I confessed to the polygrapher at the time (my recollection is not exact) I think I admitted to have tried a hallucinogenic once, which is true. I've heard that LASD and other departments have had to relax their drug usage standards because of a lack of applicants who never did anything wrong, especially drugs. If they don't have a file, I can just not confess this time. If they do, and I get caught not disclosing my previous application, I'm gone again. If they do have a file but a one time experimentation is ok, then maybe I should just admit to it and use countermeasures to beat the poly, because I'm not at all concerned about anything else in my background.
I'm sounding paranoid but that's how these people make you. I was fingerprinted during the background phase if I recall correctly. Can they find me through that?
Also, do your opinions apply to LASD only? or LAPD, other agencies in general?
thanks again.
Your opinions are very logical. I feel much better now. But I still have some questions:
Are you saying if I reapply with LASD and state on my application that I never applied before, they probably would not have any record of me? My concern is specific. When I confessed to the polygrapher at the time (my recollection is not exact) I think I admitted to have tried a hallucinogenic once, which is true. I've heard that LASD and other departments have had to relax their drug usage standards because of a lack of applicants who never did anything wrong, especially drugs. If they don't have a file, I can just not confess this time. If they do, and I get caught not disclosing my previous application, I'm gone again. If they do have a file but a one time experimentation is ok, then maybe I should just admit to it and use countermeasures to beat the poly, because I'm not at all concerned about anything else in my background.
I'm sounding paranoid but that's how these people make you. I was fingerprinted during the background phase if I recall correctly. Can they find me through that?
Also, do your opinions apply to LASD only? or LAPD, other agencies in general?
thanks again.
Posted by Fred F.
- Mar 13, 2002, 12:36 AMBullPoly,
I too have failed a poly with the LASD. That was two years ago and when I found this site.
I don't believe they keep thing like that for ten years because that would be a tremendous strain on the departments budget to pay to store the 1000's of records they keep. I currently work for the LASD in a civilian capacity and in a conversation on hiring heard sme interesting information . The LASD may go through 25,000 people to get 300. I can tell you that in 1990 the LASD performed 5000 polygraphs and hired 1600 people. The LASD uses the poly as the primary screening tool instead of conducting through background investigations simply because of the large pool of candidates and lack of investigators(my thoughts). So can you imagine finding space for storing all the failed jackets every year.
You should try the LASD again. I won't since I have finished my Masters degree and they aren't interested in people advanced educations because you can think independently and the LASD wants to shape you thought process. As far as the CA public records act, this site has the LASD poly waiver form obtained with the CA PRAhttp://antipolygraph.org/documents/lasd-polygraph-waiver.shtml
As far as finding an LE job, I suggest you look to the CA Dept. of Corrections, The CA Youth Authority, and other State agencies at//www.spb.ca.gov. With the exception of the CA Dept. of Justice, State agencies DO NOT POLY. Others that don't are the LA Airport, Harbor, and LAUSD police.
A final thought, the deputy who told you the answer about the records probably didn't have a clue to the right answer to that question and deflected it on you. Remember, all the education you need is high school, and many have only that.
Good Luck
Fred F.
I too have failed a poly with the LASD. That was two years ago and when I found this site.
I don't believe they keep thing like that for ten years because that would be a tremendous strain on the departments budget to pay to store the 1000's of records they keep. I currently work for the LASD in a civilian capacity and in a conversation on hiring heard sme interesting information . The LASD may go through 25,000 people to get 300. I can tell you that in 1990 the LASD performed 5000 polygraphs and hired 1600 people. The LASD uses the poly as the primary screening tool instead of conducting through background investigations simply because of the large pool of candidates and lack of investigators(my thoughts). So can you imagine finding space for storing all the failed jackets every year.
You should try the LASD again. I won't since I have finished my Masters degree and they aren't interested in people advanced educations because you can think independently and the LASD wants to shape you thought process. As far as the CA public records act, this site has the LASD poly waiver form obtained with the CA PRAhttp://antipolygraph.org/documents/lasd-polygraph-waiver.shtml
As far as finding an LE job, I suggest you look to the CA Dept. of Corrections, The CA Youth Authority, and other State agencies at//www.spb.ca.gov. With the exception of the CA Dept. of Justice, State agencies DO NOT POLY. Others that don't are the LA Airport, Harbor, and LAUSD police.
A final thought, the deputy who told you the answer about the records probably didn't have a clue to the right answer to that question and deflected it on you. Remember, all the education you need is high school, and many have only that.
Good Luck
Fred F.
Posted by BULLPOLY
- Mar 12, 2002, 08:38 PMNEW TO THIS SITE. GREAT INFO. HERE IS MY QUESTION AND PAST EXPERIENCE. I RECENTLY CONTACTED LASD TO OBTAIN MY PAST APPLICATION AND POLY RESULTS FOR A DEPUTY POSITION ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO. I'VE BEEN TOLD THAT FEW DEPARTMENTS KEEP RECORDS THIS LONG, BUT I WANTED TO MAKE SURE WHAT I HAD PUT DOWN SO I DON'T GET DQ'D FOR "LYING" OR "OMITTING" INFORMATION. I HAD ALSO FAILED THE POLY, AND BEING ONLY ABOUT 20 YEARS OLD, I SPILLED MY BEANS DURING THE POST-POLY INTERROGATION AND WAS PROMPTLY TOLD TO GIVE UP ANY HOPE OF BEING IN LAW ENFORCEMENT, ESPECIALLY THE LA COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT, BECAUSE THEY HAVE AND WILL ALWAYS HAVE A ZERO TOLERANCE POLICY FOR DRUGS. I TRIED DRUGS ONCE AND TOLD THE TRUTH, BUT STILL FAILED THE POLY.
ANYWAY, THIS DEPUTY I CONTACTED IN BACKGROUNDS FOR MY FILES TOLD ME THAT IT WAS THEIR POLICY TO NOT RELEASE ANY OF THIS INFO BECAUSE PART OF ALL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES HIRING STANDARDS INCLUDE THE ABILITY OF THE APPLICANT TO HAVE A GOOD MEMORY AND REMEMBER WHAT THEY SAID ON PREVIOUS APPLICATIONS, EVEN 10 YEARS AGO! I QUOTED THE CALIFORNIA PUBLIC RECORDS ACT AND SHE SAID POLY RESULTS, APPLICATIONS, AND BACKGROUND PACKETS ARE ALL EXEMPTED UNDER THIS LAW AND SHE HAS NO OBLIGATION TO RELEASE IT TO ME.
MY QUESTIONS ARE:
1. DO THEY EVEN HAVE MY RECORDS IF THEY ARE 10 YEARS OLD?
2. IS SHE WRONG ABOUT THE LAW REQUIRING THEM TO RELEASE MY FILES? AS I UNDERSTAND IT THE LAW PROTECTS MY PRIVACY SO THAT NO MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC CAN GET IT. BUT I'M NOT THE PUBLIC. I'M ME WANTING MY INFO?
?
3. DO LAPD AND LASD SHARE INFO SO IF I APPLY TO EITHER I MUST STATE THAT I DID, SINCE THEY'LL FIND OUT. SOMEONE ON THIS POST STATED THAT MAYBE THERE IS SOME CENTRALIZED SYSTEM TO FIND OUT AUTOMATICALLY? OTHERWISE I'D JUST AS SOON NOT SAY ANYTHING.
4. WHAT IF I APPLY TO AN OUT OF STATE AGENCY. CAN THEY FIND OUT IF AND WHEN I APPLIED TO ANY OTHER LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY ANYWHERE?
PLEASE ASSIST!!!! I HAVE A RENEWED INTEREST IN PURSING A CAREER IN LE BECAUSE OF THIS SITE, EVEN THOUGH I'M CONSIDERABLY OLDER NOW. UNTIL NOW, I JUST GAVE UP THINKING MY PAST APPLICATIONS WERE ACCESSIBLE BY ALL AGENCIES AND THAT A DQ ANYWHERE DID ME IN FOREVER.
BUT IF I CAN TRY AGAIN, I WANNA BE AS CAREFUL AS I CAN.
THANKS FOR ANY RESPONSES.
ANYWAY, THIS DEPUTY I CONTACTED IN BACKGROUNDS FOR MY FILES TOLD ME THAT IT WAS THEIR POLICY TO NOT RELEASE ANY OF THIS INFO BECAUSE PART OF ALL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES HIRING STANDARDS INCLUDE THE ABILITY OF THE APPLICANT TO HAVE A GOOD MEMORY AND REMEMBER WHAT THEY SAID ON PREVIOUS APPLICATIONS, EVEN 10 YEARS AGO! I QUOTED THE CALIFORNIA PUBLIC RECORDS ACT AND SHE SAID POLY RESULTS, APPLICATIONS, AND BACKGROUND PACKETS ARE ALL EXEMPTED UNDER THIS LAW AND SHE HAS NO OBLIGATION TO RELEASE IT TO ME.
MY QUESTIONS ARE:
1. DO THEY EVEN HAVE MY RECORDS IF THEY ARE 10 YEARS OLD?
2. IS SHE WRONG ABOUT THE LAW REQUIRING THEM TO RELEASE MY FILES? AS I UNDERSTAND IT THE LAW PROTECTS MY PRIVACY SO THAT NO MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC CAN GET IT. BUT I'M NOT THE PUBLIC. I'M ME WANTING MY INFO?
?3. DO LAPD AND LASD SHARE INFO SO IF I APPLY TO EITHER I MUST STATE THAT I DID, SINCE THEY'LL FIND OUT. SOMEONE ON THIS POST STATED THAT MAYBE THERE IS SOME CENTRALIZED SYSTEM TO FIND OUT AUTOMATICALLY? OTHERWISE I'D JUST AS SOON NOT SAY ANYTHING.
4. WHAT IF I APPLY TO AN OUT OF STATE AGENCY. CAN THEY FIND OUT IF AND WHEN I APPLIED TO ANY OTHER LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY ANYWHERE?
PLEASE ASSIST!!!! I HAVE A RENEWED INTEREST IN PURSING A CAREER IN LE BECAUSE OF THIS SITE, EVEN THOUGH I'M CONSIDERABLY OLDER NOW. UNTIL NOW, I JUST GAVE UP THINKING MY PAST APPLICATIONS WERE ACCESSIBLE BY ALL AGENCIES AND THAT A DQ ANYWHERE DID ME IN FOREVER.
BUT IF I CAN TRY AGAIN, I WANNA BE AS CAREFUL AS I CAN.
THANKS FOR ANY RESPONSES.
Posted by Liar-Liar
- Mar 07, 2002, 10:09 PMThis may just be a repeat, but since It has happened to me I felt I should warn others as well.
When taking a polygraph, I signed several confidentiality forms and was told (lied to) by the polygrapher that anything we talked about was going to remain between us; that the personnel department was only going to see a pass or fail when they got the polygraph report.
Well to my surprise The interview board people had all the juicy stuff I had talked about with the polygrapher. I'm really not sure why I even got called to the board when I failed that polygraph. I spilled my guts and even made up some stuff I never did just to get the polygrapher to stop grinding me.
Sharing all my confessions (None disqualifying as I've never done anything that would disqualify me) with the department I applied with, is one thing. But then after being rejected for not passing the poly I apply to another department and the Background Investigator starts asking me questions about the stuff I confessed to at the first department. Even about the stuff I made up. I had just made up some things to get the polygrapher to beleive me and get him off my back.
Of course I owned up to all my past mistakes, and even took blame for the stuff I made up. But what pisses me off is the fact that I signed a "Confidentiality Form" and no information about me would be given to anyone. What a Bunch of LIARS.
I guess the moral of this story is, don't volunteer any inforamtion that is'nt on record anywhere and know that anything you confess to in a polygraph is as good as public information. This makes me sick to my stomach because I told those dirt bags stuff that is only between me and God, no one who knows me knows about it, and now its up there for anyone who calls in asking about me.
What a Sick World We Live In!
When taking a polygraph, I signed several confidentiality forms and was told (lied to) by the polygrapher that anything we talked about was going to remain between us; that the personnel department was only going to see a pass or fail when they got the polygraph report.
Well to my surprise The interview board people had all the juicy stuff I had talked about with the polygrapher. I'm really not sure why I even got called to the board when I failed that polygraph. I spilled my guts and even made up some stuff I never did just to get the polygrapher to stop grinding me.
Sharing all my confessions (None disqualifying as I've never done anything that would disqualify me) with the department I applied with, is one thing. But then after being rejected for not passing the poly I apply to another department and the Background Investigator starts asking me questions about the stuff I confessed to at the first department. Even about the stuff I made up. I had just made up some things to get the polygrapher to beleive me and get him off my back.
Of course I owned up to all my past mistakes, and even took blame for the stuff I made up. But what pisses me off is the fact that I signed a "Confidentiality Form" and no information about me would be given to anyone. What a Bunch of LIARS.
I guess the moral of this story is, don't volunteer any inforamtion that is'nt on record anywhere and know that anything you confess to in a polygraph is as good as public information. This makes me sick to my stomach because I told those dirt bags stuff that is only between me and God, no one who knows me knows about it, and now its up there for anyone who calls in asking about me.
What a Sick World We Live In!