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Posted by retcopper
- Aug 02, 2006, 03:28 PMnonombre:
The next time I run an exam Ill have to wear a tin foil hat as a counter-counter measure when I put the spaghetti strainer onthe guy's head.
The next time I run an exam Ill have to wear a tin foil hat as a counter-counter measure when I put the spaghetti strainer onthe guy's head.
Posted by DippityShurff
- Jul 31, 2006, 08:51 PMQuote from: nonombre on Jul 31, 2006, 08:31 PM
Absolutely. I have also had people walk in with the perverbial "tack in the shoe," dark sunglasses that they TRIED to refuse to take off ("Prescription, they said.) I took them off and examined them. The glasses were dime store plastic. And my personal favorite, teeth wrapped in aluminum foil because they were told that would "confuse" the polygraph....
Nonombre,
I had a guy once swear I couldn't have caught him on the RADAR cause he had tin foil in his hubcaps...I feel your pain LOL
Regards,
Nonombre
Posted by DippityShurff
- Jul 31, 2006, 08:50 PMQuote from: Onesimus on Dec 31, 1969, 07:00 PMWere you trying to polygraph a rabbit?
tried to interrogate a rabbit once. SOB bit me
Dippity
Posted by nonombre
- Jul 31, 2006, 08:31 PMQuote from: alterego1 on Jul 31, 2006, 03:18 AMSo nonombre.....you really had subjects who tried to take 2-4 breaths per second
Absolutely. I have also had people walk in with the perverbial "tack in the shoe," dark sunglasses that they TRIED to refuse to take off ("Prescription, they said.) I took them off and examined them. The glasses were dime store plastic. And my personal favorite, teeth wrapped in aluminum foil because they were told that would "confuse" the polygraph....
Regards,
Nonombre
Posted by underlyingtruth
- Jul 31, 2006, 04:45 AMMy concept of eliminating the breathing data variable is to NOT alter the breathing pattern at all. To maintain an absolute pattern without exception, even to the point of answering the question at the same point in the cycle each time for every question. Use CMs to alter the other data and let the breathing be a mute point.
Oh... nonombre and Sergeant, just for the record, I run 5k (3.1 miles) in 22 minutes - that is three 7 min miles back to back.
One other comment about breathe control. I'm a master diver and on average I only take 4-5 breaths per minute when diving and I maintain that rate for up to 90 minutes. Six breathes a minute (2 every 20 seconds) sounds like a luxury, nonombre.
Oh... nonombre and Sergeant, just for the record, I run 5k (3.1 miles) in 22 minutes - that is three 7 min miles back to back.
One other comment about breathe control. I'm a master diver and on average I only take 4-5 breaths per minute when diving and I maintain that rate for up to 90 minutes. Six breathes a minute (2 every 20 seconds) sounds like a luxury, nonombre.
Posted by alterego1
- Jul 31, 2006, 03:18 AMSo nonombre.....you really had subjects who tried to take 2-4 breaths per second 
Posted by nonombre
- Jul 31, 2006, 12:59 AMFood for thought, Eosjupiter. I will take that into consideration...
Regards,
Nonombre
Regards,
Nonombre
Posted by EosJupiter
- Jul 30, 2006, 05:21 PMQuote from: nonombre on Jul 30, 2006, 12:48 PM
Triple x,
Truth is, I see it all the time. Subjects taking 2-4 breaths per second in an effort to affect the outcome of their polygraph examinations. I believe someone else referred to these folks as "dumb asses.") I must agree. However, that does not mitigate the fact that there are lots of them out there...
Like I said, I talk to each of these people and explain the facts of life. Approximately 95% of them will then drop their attempts to manipulate the test and we will then get along just fine. The remainder are considered good candidates for a job at Pizza Hut, or the local donut shop. Not my police department....
Regards,
Nonombre
Nonombre,
Well good to see you stuck around for some more fun and games. Now as far as the breathing rate is concerned and other manipulations that can be effected by the subject. The person has to find his own comfortable breathing rate and level. Adaptation is the key. If you can't adapt the methods and practice to yourself then nothing will work at all. Hence you get to expel your words of wisdom on the individual you are currently interrogating, and supposedly make him stop his now obvious attempt to employ countermeasures. But from my own experience, and other sources, you may catch a rookie, but the masters are tough.
Regards .....
Posted by Onesimus
- Jul 30, 2006, 03:12 PMQuote from: nonombre on Jul 30, 2006, 12:48 PM
Subjects taking 2-4 breaths per second...
Were you trying to polygraph a rabbit?
Posted by triple x
- Jul 30, 2006, 02:56 PMNonombre,
Fair enough, understood.
Just curious... what do the polygraph examinee's say in response to you questioning their breathing rate of one or two breaths per 20/25 seconds.?
Do they actually admit that they were trying to control their breathing, or, do they tell you that they did not realize they were only taking one to two breaths per 20/25 seconds?
triple x
Fair enough, understood.
Just curious... what do the polygraph examinee's say in response to you questioning their breathing rate of one or two breaths per 20/25 seconds.?
Do they actually admit that they were trying to control their breathing, or, do they tell you that they did not realize they were only taking one to two breaths per 20/25 seconds?
triple x
Posted by nonombre
- Jul 30, 2006, 12:48 PMQuote from: triple x on Jul 30, 2006, 02:05 AMalterego1,
I completely agree with you... anyone who goes into a polygraph trying to breathe only once or twice every 20/25 seconds deserves to fail. That's completely idiotic.
What post did Nonombre get the idea that someone would want to basically hold their breath during a polygraph? Actually, I think there is a short reference in Doug Williams book, "How to sting the polygraph" that describes holding your breath for short periods during a polygraph exam. However, I would have to go back and read his book again, but I think even Doug Williams advised against holding your breath during a polygraph.
v/r
triple x
Triple x,
Truth is, I see it all the time. Subjects taking 2-4 breaths per second in an effort to affect the outcome of their polygraph examinations. I believe someone else referred to these folks as "dumb asses.") I must agree. However, that does not mitigate the fact that there are lots of them out there...
Like I said, I talk to each of these people and explain the facts of life. Approximately 95% of them will then drop their attempts to manipulate the test and we will then get along just fine. The remainder are considered good candidates for a job at Pizza Hut, or the local donut shop. Not my police department....
Regards,
Nonombre
Posted by triple x
- Jul 30, 2006, 02:05 AMalterego1,
I completely agree with you... anyone who goes into a polygraph trying to breathe only once or twice every 20/25 seconds deserves to fail. That's completely idiotic.
What post did Nonombre get the idea that someone would want to basically hold their breath during a polygraph? Actually, I think there is a short reference in Doug Williams book, "How to sting the polygraph" that describes holding your breath for short periods during a polygraph exam. However, I would have to go back and read his book again, but I think even Doug Williams advised against holding your breath during a polygraph.
v/r
triple x
I completely agree with you... anyone who goes into a polygraph trying to breathe only once or twice every 20/25 seconds deserves to fail. That's completely idiotic.
What post did Nonombre get the idea that someone would want to basically hold their breath during a polygraph? Actually, I think there is a short reference in Doug Williams book, "How to sting the polygraph" that describes holding your breath for short periods during a polygraph exam. However, I would have to go back and read his book again, but I think even Doug Williams advised against holding your breath during a polygraph.
v/r
triple x
Posted by alterego1
- Jul 30, 2006, 12:39 AMTripleX
I think the instances of individuals being "caught" using breathing countermeasures (such as those nonombre described) are simply accounts where the examinee is just a complete dumbass and has no clue what he/she is doing.
If one uses breathing countermeasures as per TLBTLD, then I would find it very hard to believe they could be detected. Otherwise, all of the internet celebrity polygraphers (such as nonombre) would have already stepped up to the plate to accept Andy Richardson's Countermeasure Challenge
I think the instances of individuals being "caught" using breathing countermeasures (such as those nonombre described) are simply accounts where the examinee is just a complete dumbass and has no clue what he/she is doing.
If one uses breathing countermeasures as per TLBTLD, then I would find it very hard to believe they could be detected. Otherwise, all of the internet celebrity polygraphers (such as nonombre) would have already stepped up to the plate to accept Andy Richardson's Countermeasure Challenge
Posted by triple x
- Jul 30, 2006, 12:17 AMNonombre,
You write in part:
"Look at your watch, Okay, now do you best to take no more than 2 breaths in the next 20 to 25 second period. Does that feel natural? Do you think that looks natural? Go ahead, practice for awhile. Does that feel natural yet? Is your body feeling a little oxygen starved? Go ahead, keep it up for awhile..."
Where do you get that anyone on this message board thinks we can only take one to two breaths per 20 to 25 seconds during a polygraph exam.? Obviously, this does not feel natural, who ever said that it did.? With a little focused attention and a few minutes of practice, anyone can learn to control their breathing rate, 4-seconds per breath... or, 2 seconds in, and 2 seconds out. Not to exceed no more than 4-seconds per breathing cycle.
If you think someone trying to control their breathing would actually take only one or two breaths per 20 to 25 seconds would be foolish. I would have to agree with you on this issue. It would obviously appear that the examinee is holding their breath if only they only took one to two breaths per 20/25 seconds.
Who on this board would argue with you on that... you're right! They would be foolish.
Those of us that have actually taken polygraphs and employed cm's which include controlled breathing rates know that you should maintain a breathing rate of approximately 4-seconds per breathing cycle, in & out = 4 seconds.
No argument with you on the one to two breathes per 20 to 25 seconds here...
triple x
You write in part:
"Look at your watch, Okay, now do you best to take no more than 2 breaths in the next 20 to 25 second period. Does that feel natural? Do you think that looks natural? Go ahead, practice for awhile. Does that feel natural yet? Is your body feeling a little oxygen starved? Go ahead, keep it up for awhile..."
Where do you get that anyone on this message board thinks we can only take one to two breaths per 20 to 25 seconds during a polygraph exam.? Obviously, this does not feel natural, who ever said that it did.? With a little focused attention and a few minutes of practice, anyone can learn to control their breathing rate, 4-seconds per breath... or, 2 seconds in, and 2 seconds out. Not to exceed no more than 4-seconds per breathing cycle.
If you think someone trying to control their breathing would actually take only one or two breaths per 20 to 25 seconds would be foolish. I would have to agree with you on this issue. It would obviously appear that the examinee is holding their breath if only they only took one to two breaths per 20/25 seconds.
Who on this board would argue with you on that... you're right! They would be foolish.
Those of us that have actually taken polygraphs and employed cm's which include controlled breathing rates know that you should maintain a breathing rate of approximately 4-seconds per breathing cycle, in & out = 4 seconds.
No argument with you on the one to two breathes per 20 to 25 seconds here...
triple x
Posted by alterego1
- Jul 29, 2006, 02:02 PMTo the anonymous poster:
I'm sure nonombre and the rest of the pro-poly camp don't appreciate your "anatomical trivia," but the rest of us sure do
I'm sure nonombre and the rest of the pro-poly camp don't appreciate your "anatomical trivia," but the rest of us sure do