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Posted by beech trees
- Mar 31, 2002, 05:45 PMQuote from: Susan on Mar 31, 2002, 05:25 PM
To prospective applicants - ignore Beech Trees advice.
"I suggest admitting nothing which is not already known by your background investigators or that you know with certainty cannot be discovered by a thorough background check OR is not relavent (sic) to your security clearance."
Is it 100 % certain that your "background investigators" will find out about past incidents? Absolutely not, but they do in most cases - particularly DoD security clearance investigations. Many applicants have no clue how far reaching these investigations are - what records will be reviewed or who will be spoken to. Countless times, US military recruiters advise recruits not to disclose something and then the recruit is left trying to explain what they did and why they omitted the information.
The past incident / item may well be something very minor, but combined with the false statements - the clearance often is and should be denied. False statements will haunt you your entire career. Tell the truth.
Perhaps I should clarify what I wrote above. I would only advocate insulating myself from admissions to a polygrapher that I had not made to a BI. The two must jibe if one is to pass a BI, correct?
I know personally how far reaching a background check can go. My best friend was with the US Navy SEALs. During his BI, not only was he thoroughly investigated, his family and circle of friends (including myself) were as well. I personally was interviewed for about 45 minutes about my friend's character and background.
Finally, just as false statements will haunt one an entire career, so will false accusatons.
Posted by susan
- Mar 31, 2002, 05:25 PMTo prospective applicants - ignore Beech Trees advice.
"I suggest admitting nothing which is not already known by your background investigators or that you know with certainty cannot be discovered by a thorough background check OR is not relavent (sic) to your security clearance."
Is it 100 % certain that your "background investigators" will find out about past incidents? Absolutely not, but they do in most cases - particularly DoD security clearance investigations. Many applicants have no clue how far reaching these investigations are - what records will be reviewed or who will be spoken to. Countless times, US military recruiters advise recruits not to disclose something and then the recruit is left trying to explain what they did and why they omitted the information.
The past incident / item may well be something very minor, but combined with the false statements - the clearance often is and should be denied. False statements will haunt you your entire career. Tell the truth.
"I suggest admitting nothing which is not already known by your background investigators or that you know with certainty cannot be discovered by a thorough background check OR is not relavent (sic) to your security clearance."
Is it 100 % certain that your "background investigators" will find out about past incidents? Absolutely not, but they do in most cases - particularly DoD security clearance investigations. Many applicants have no clue how far reaching these investigations are - what records will be reviewed or who will be spoken to. Countless times, US military recruiters advise recruits not to disclose something and then the recruit is left trying to explain what they did and why they omitted the information.
The past incident / item may well be something very minor, but combined with the false statements - the clearance often is and should be denied. False statements will haunt you your entire career. Tell the truth.
Posted by beech trees
- Mar 31, 2002, 01:11 PMQuote from: Propoly on Mar 28, 2002, 05:45 PMYou have already taken a giant step by admitting that you have smoked marijuana in the past.
Yes, but a giant step in which direction??
QuoteTell the polygraph examiner that during the pre-test. Now when you said you have smoked it in the past, how recently was this past? Years ago, months ago, or days ago.
Rather than telling your polygraph interrogator something he can then use to spin your admission into a statement that will contradict your written admissions, thus ruining your life's work and stated goals, I suggest admitting nothing which is not already known by your background investigators or that you know with certainty cannot be discovered by a thorough background check OR is not relavent to your security clearance.
QuoteWhether you want to tell the truth or use counter measures in an attempt to conceal deception. The choice is simple.
Yes, it really is simple.
Posted by Propoly
- Mar 28, 2002, 05:45 PMYou have already taken a giant step by admitting that you have smoked marijuana in the past. Tell the polygraph examiner that during the pre-test. Now when you said you have smoked it in the past, how recently was this past? Years ago, months ago, or days ago. I can guarantee you, if it is the latter two, you probably will get DQued. The decision is yours to make. Whether you want to tell the truth or use counter measures in an attempt to conceal deception. The choice is simple. TELL THE TRUTH!!!!!
Posted by Myst
- Mar 01, 2002, 12:35 AMReally, thank you for answering. I don't have any legal worries, though. I know that they can't do anything to me based on the sole foundation of a polygraph test. I only mentioned going to jail to explain why I couldn't come clean. My concern is that if I fail this test, I may get kicked out of my research team, and I've come to really like the job I'm doing.
I'm not under any sort of investigation, so I doubt it's a peak of tension thing. I've managed to narrow down my questions: The polygrapher told me that the test is to see if I'm a trustworthy person (is this a lie?) . I became confused when he insisted on the control question, so - is there a chance they use it as a relevent question (using only the name and the "answer truthfully" questions as comparison) or should I use countermeasures on every question that is not the drug question (which is what I was thinking of doing)?
I'm not under any sort of investigation, so I doubt it's a peak of tension thing. I've managed to narrow down my questions: The polygrapher told me that the test is to see if I'm a trustworthy person (is this a lie?) . I became confused when he insisted on the control question, so - is there a chance they use it as a relevent question (using only the name and the "answer truthfully" questions as comparison) or should I use countermeasures on every question that is not the drug question (which is what I was thinking of doing)?
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Feb 27, 2002, 07:21 PMMyst,
What you've described sounds like a kind of Peak of Tension test. You'll find this format briefly discussed on p. 63 of the first digital edition of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector.
When your polygrapher/interrogator asked, "Do you intend to lie in the following questions?" he was probably looking for the strongest physiological response to a certain area of questioning, and then focusing the polygraph interrogation on that area.
If I were in your situation, I would seek a consultation with a private lawyer regarding my legal options before the next polygraph interrogation.
What you've described sounds like a kind of Peak of Tension test. You'll find this format briefly discussed on p. 63 of the first digital edition of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector.
When your polygrapher/interrogator asked, "Do you intend to lie in the following questions?" he was probably looking for the strongest physiological response to a certain area of questioning, and then focusing the polygraph interrogation on that area.
If I were in your situation, I would seek a consultation with a private lawyer regarding my legal options before the next polygraph interrogation.
Posted by Myst
- Feb 27, 2002, 06:50 PMI'm a soldier in the army of a country I won't mention. I'm 18. My work envolves dealing with highly classified material, so by procedure I was required to take a polygraph test. This was today.
I didn't pass.
This would be a good place to mention that I'm not entirely innocent. I have used pot a few times in my past. However, being in the army pervents me from even admitting to this, because by the army law, I can be sent to jail even for this.
I've read the book. However this test was different, and it completely threw me.
First of all, there was no stim test. The test was of a format not mentioned by the book, it consisted of a few rounds, each with 3 sets of 6 questions. The first was:
Is your name x? [yes]
Do you intend to lie in the following questions?
relevent
relevent
relevent
relevent
Is your last name y? [yes]
[the first 2 and the last question are in every round]
After that, he focused on one topic out of the 4 relevent topics he had asked about. As luck would have it, it was drugs. Then he discussed (really discussed, with me!) the control questions he was gonna ask me. "Have you ever lied" turned to "have you told a serious lie when it wasn't necessary in the past year?" and he *typed the question up*- it wasn't ready beforehand. I focused on my breathing and used countermeasures on the control questions. And then he asked me if the lying question was bothering me. WTF!? Isn't he supposed to want a strong response? Anyway, next set he asks me what was bothering me about the drug question. I told him that my cousin recently was charged for dealing (this is true), and that it was bothering me. And he kept on insisting on the lying question! Telling me that something was definitely bothering me about it. And of course, I had a response to the drug question. Last set, I didn't use countermeasures (I was really confused by then), but kept my breathing. That was it. I could see in the print out graph that I had a noticable hill.
At this point he ended the test. There was supposed to be at least one more round. You could see that he wanted to believe me, because behaviourly I was perfect, but there was just no denying that peak.
I have a repeat test on Sunday. Please, please help me.
I didn't pass.
This would be a good place to mention that I'm not entirely innocent. I have used pot a few times in my past. However, being in the army pervents me from even admitting to this, because by the army law, I can be sent to jail even for this.
I've read the book. However this test was different, and it completely threw me.
First of all, there was no stim test. The test was of a format not mentioned by the book, it consisted of a few rounds, each with 3 sets of 6 questions. The first was:
Is your name x? [yes]
Do you intend to lie in the following questions?
relevent
relevent
relevent
relevent
Is your last name y? [yes]
[the first 2 and the last question are in every round]
After that, he focused on one topic out of the 4 relevent topics he had asked about. As luck would have it, it was drugs. Then he discussed (really discussed, with me!) the control questions he was gonna ask me. "Have you ever lied" turned to "have you told a serious lie when it wasn't necessary in the past year?" and he *typed the question up*- it wasn't ready beforehand. I focused on my breathing and used countermeasures on the control questions. And then he asked me if the lying question was bothering me. WTF!? Isn't he supposed to want a strong response? Anyway, next set he asks me what was bothering me about the drug question. I told him that my cousin recently was charged for dealing (this is true), and that it was bothering me. And he kept on insisting on the lying question! Telling me that something was definitely bothering me about it. And of course, I had a response to the drug question. Last set, I didn't use countermeasures (I was really confused by then), but kept my breathing. That was it. I could see in the print out graph that I had a noticable hill.
At this point he ended the test. There was supposed to be at least one more round. You could see that he wanted to believe me, because behaviourly I was perfect, but there was just no denying that peak.
I have a repeat test on Sunday. Please, please help me.