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Posted by Fair Chance
- Mar 28, 2006, 09:32 PMDear Tangowhiskey,
I hope you understood my answer concerning "spirit" of the application and applying with "ethics".
You are going into government service. This is not about any single incident but the "spirit" of performing government service while practicing the proper "ethics" of being truthful about any questions and not circumventing the answers by omission or skewing the truth of what happened.
I try hard not to play word games and if you need further clarification, please post.
Retcopper, besides any grammatical errors of presentation, could you elaborate on how I was contradictory in my answer.
My stand is simple. I believe that all applications should be answered truthfully from my first post to this one. I believe that the polygraph has little utility in prescreening government employment applications especially since many agencies do no further investigation to confirm unconfessed suspicions nor do they videotape or audiotape such procedures.
Regards.
I hope you understood my answer concerning "spirit" of the application and applying with "ethics".
You are going into government service. This is not about any single incident but the "spirit" of performing government service while practicing the proper "ethics" of being truthful about any questions and not circumventing the answers by omission or skewing the truth of what happened.
I try hard not to play word games and if you need further clarification, please post.
Retcopper, besides any grammatical errors of presentation, could you elaborate on how I was contradictory in my answer.
My stand is simple. I believe that all applications should be answered truthfully from my first post to this one. I believe that the polygraph has little utility in prescreening government employment applications especially since many agencies do no further investigation to confirm unconfessed suspicions nor do they videotape or audiotape such procedures.
Regards.
Posted by tangowhiskey
- Mar 28, 2006, 08:15 PMI'm thinking about just being honest and admitting to the usage. If they decide to discard my application, I have no one to blame but myself. I'm at the point in my life where I can't keep other career plans on hold waiting on a dream.
Thanks for all your help. Let me know if you have any other insights.
Thanks for all your help. Let me know if you have any other insights.
Posted by Wallerstein
- Mar 28, 2006, 03:49 PMLying and them finding out is an auto DQ. Candor and honesty are good.
That said, I know the question usually asks "have you ILLEGALLY used drugs in the past..." If you were in a locale where it was legal (Amsterdam) then you may be able to answer honestly in the negative. before taking this road, however, I would investigate this thoroughly. I read a security clearance appeal decision on the net where the judge so ruled...then again that's a DoD appeal which, obviously, was open to appeal.
Any decision the CIA takes with you, however, will not be open to any appeal. Dismissals are done there on "suitability" grounds that are not open to appeal.
That said, I know the question usually asks "have you ILLEGALLY used drugs in the past..." If you were in a locale where it was legal (Amsterdam) then you may be able to answer honestly in the negative. before taking this road, however, I would investigate this thoroughly. I read a security clearance appeal decision on the net where the judge so ruled...then again that's a DoD appeal which, obviously, was open to appeal.
Any decision the CIA takes with you, however, will not be open to any appeal. Dismissals are done there on "suitability" grounds that are not open to appeal.
Posted by retcopper
- Mar 28, 2006, 03:43 PMFairchance:
What a contradiction. First you advise him to wait untill he meets the "spirit" of the application and then you tell him to answer with "ethics."
What a contradiction. First you advise him to wait untill he meets the "spirit" of the application and then you tell him to answer with "ethics."
Posted by Fair Chance
- Mar 28, 2006, 03:25 PMDear tangowhiskey,
I would wait until you meet the guidelines and requirements of the agency in word and spirit. The truth is far easier to keep track of than lies. If an applicant feels that a question is against the law (discriminatory in some way), you have the right to challenge the question.
I would not do anything out of "fear" of the polygraph finding out otherwise. I would do so because it is the truthful and proper thing to do.
The polygraph needs fear or anxiety to cause reactions. These reactions do not necessary mean anything as far as truth of deception. Many honest people telling the truth in a courtroom setting show tremendous anxiety. Just being in court with all of its formalities, court officers, and crowds could make anyone's palm sweat or heart beat faster.
For your own private peace of mind, delay a few months and then answer the application with the ethics I hope you will take into government service.
Regards.
I would wait until you meet the guidelines and requirements of the agency in word and spirit. The truth is far easier to keep track of than lies. If an applicant feels that a question is against the law (discriminatory in some way), you have the right to challenge the question.
I would not do anything out of "fear" of the polygraph finding out otherwise. I would do so because it is the truthful and proper thing to do.
The polygraph needs fear or anxiety to cause reactions. These reactions do not necessary mean anything as far as truth of deception. Many honest people telling the truth in a courtroom setting show tremendous anxiety. Just being in court with all of its formalities, court officers, and crowds could make anyone's palm sweat or heart beat faster.
For your own private peace of mind, delay a few months and then answer the application with the ethics I hope you will take into government service.
Regards.
Posted by antrella
- Mar 28, 2006, 02:40 PMQuote from: tangowhiskey on Mar 28, 2006, 01:19 PMI've received some info to fill out for the CIA application process. I'm a little nervous because it asks for drug use during the last 12 months. Last June I smoked marijuana a few times while traveling abroad. Haven't touched it since and have never been a habitual user.
Should I disclose this? If and when I get to the polygraph round I imagine 12 months would have passed since any use. The CIA website says drugs shouldn't have been used in the past year. What should I do??
From my limited experience, the CIA is slightly more "understanding" when it comes to such minor drug use than other agencies. That said, you need to make a decision - will you be candid, evasive, or deceptive?
I would advise being candid - if it was a couple of smokes in June, they may overlook it if you're an appealing enough candidate. There is, however, the risk that someone will see that and just ding your file immediately - sending you back to square one with the other shmoes (i.e., forced to use the dreaded and painfully impersonal CIA job application website, wait months and months, etc etc).
You could include a brief note on your application file explaining what you said here (non-habitual use, done in a context where it was culturally acceptable/possibly legal, and so on). Also, by the time the poly rolls around, 12 months doubtless will have passed.
There may be one other option, though you may not like it. Find out if you could hold off on sending in the application materials till June. They (probably) made you wait a few months - they may be understanding and wait a few months themselves.
Should you choose to fudge it (thinking maybe "9 months, 12 months, who's counting?"), you wade into treacherous waters. Will they find out, for a fact, that you smoked up in June '05? Unlikely. But if and when the polygraph rolls around, hesitation on your part may spell your doom (notwithstanding proactive measures).
So your options, essentially, are as follows:
- tell the truth in hopes of understanding
- try and drag out the application so 12 months pass
- lie under the assumption that 12 months will have passed by the time the polygraph begins and/or assuming you won't have trouble with the polygraph.
Posted by retcopper
- Mar 28, 2006, 02:39 PMTango:
Tell the truth. This will be a hot issue for you and you will be found deceptive if you lie about it.
Tell the truth. This will be a hot issue for you and you will be found deceptive if you lie about it.
Posted by tangowhiskey
- Mar 28, 2006, 01:19 PMI've received some info to fill out for the CIA application process. I'm a little nervous because it asks for drug use during the last 12 months. Last June I smoked marijuana a few times while traveling abroad. Haven't touched it since and have never been a habitual user.
Should I disclose this? If and when I get to the polygraph round I imagine 12 months would have passed since any use. The CIA website says drugs shouldn't have been used in the past year. What should I do??
Should I disclose this? If and when I get to the polygraph round I imagine 12 months would have passed since any use. The CIA website says drugs shouldn't have been used in the past year. What should I do??