- Welcome to AntiPolygraph.org Message Board.
A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by nolehce
- Mar 20, 2006, 12:33 AMCCM,
Congratulations on your success. It sounds like Eastwood is trying to bait you for some reason, after buttering you up by telling you that you are clever.
Given the specificity of your post, it sounds like he wants to contact the agency in question and get you disqualified. Don't fall for his line.
But hey East-woodhead, how fricking "clever" need one be to simply breathe and tell the examiner what one truly thinks of the polygraph ...?
After all, I thought it was the "truth" that the polygraphers were looking for -- right?
I remember when my polygrapher kept getting frustrated with my breathing too -- as if I wasn't following some preordained polygraphy script. I told him, "Sorry dude -- I am a mammal and I breathe -- in and out. Simple as that."
They were so convinced I had had contacts with a foreign intelligence organization. I think I would know if I had had such contacts -- because surely they would come off as more intelligent than the polygraphers employed by our own intelligence agencies ...
Congratulations on your success. It sounds like Eastwood is trying to bait you for some reason, after buttering you up by telling you that you are clever.
Given the specificity of your post, it sounds like he wants to contact the agency in question and get you disqualified. Don't fall for his line.
But hey East-woodhead, how fricking "clever" need one be to simply breathe and tell the examiner what one truly thinks of the polygraph ...?
After all, I thought it was the "truth" that the polygraphers were looking for -- right?
I remember when my polygrapher kept getting frustrated with my breathing too -- as if I wasn't following some preordained polygraphy script. I told him, "Sorry dude -- I am a mammal and I breathe -- in and out. Simple as that."
They were so convinced I had had contacts with a foreign intelligence organization. I think I would know if I had had such contacts -- because surely they would come off as more intelligent than the polygraphers employed by our own intelligence agencies ...
Posted by Eastwood
- Mar 19, 2006, 08:50 PMYou sound very clever - care to tell us which Agency gave your test?
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Mar 10, 2006, 06:12 PMQuote from: antrella on Mar 10, 2006, 03:32 PMI'm beginning to think the polygraph servestwothree somewhat legitimate (albeit deceptive & borderline unethical) purposes in pre-employment screening.
1) Filter out undesirable candidates for whatever reason. A supervisor wants to put the kibosh on an applicant but can't come right out and tell his peers/underlings "yeah, I just have a bad feeling about this guy." The polygraph serves as a proxy for such decisions.
The polygraph can indeed provide an ideal cover for racial, sexual, religious, or other bias in hiring.
Quote2) Stress test. If your physiological responses are flying all over the place at the mere mention of the word "DRUGS" or "TERRORIST ORGANIZATION," it may be an indicator that you'll shatter like an egg should an enemy get a hold of you. Lies or no, who would you rather entrust with state secrets - someone physiologically unfazed by intrusive questions, or Johnny McSweats whose body gives something away the second it's put under pressure?
It is often suggested that the polygraph is some kind of "stress test": that if a person can't handle the stress of a polygraph session, they're not cut out for a job in law enforcement. But such a notion doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Everyone shows reactions during polygraph examinations. Those who pass merely show stronger reactions to the "control" questions than to the relevant questions.
Note also that the Law Enforcement Pre-Employment Test used by federal law enforcement agencies is actually designed to pass the kind of person who would cheat in college and drive while drunk and then lie about such behavior to a federal law enforcement officer (the polygrapher). The applicant who admits to such misconduct (or has never engaged in it), and as a consequence feels less anxiety when truthfully answering the "control" questions, is perversely more likely to fail. By relying on an invalid test, federal agencies are systematically excluding some of their most honest applicants.
Quoteadded 3) Accountability. By not hiring those that failed polys, LEOs can act without fear that the press/pundits will come out after a leak/embarassment and saying "HE WASN'T EVEN POLYGRAPHED!" etc. This ties into the public perception that polygraphs are very accurate.
AntiPolygraph.org is working hard to correct public misperceptions about polygraphy. See our Get Involved page for ways you can help.
QuoteThis isn't to say I endorse it - those I've spoken with here and elsewhere know how I feel about the poly. It's an absurd tool for an absurd world.
Agreed. But in the real world, reliance on polygraphy is undermining national security and public safety. See Chapter 2 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector for examples of the harm that official reliance on this pseudoscience has caused.
Posted by antrella
- Mar 10, 2006, 03:32 PMThis is a very interesting post. Did you end up getting the job or did things fall through for other reasons?
I'm beginning to think the polygraph servestwo three somewhat legitimate (albeit deceptive & borderline unethical) purposes in pre-employment screening.
1) Filter out undesirable candidates for whatever reason. A supervisor wants to put the kibosh on an applicant but can't come right out and tell his peers/underlings "yeah, I just have a bad feeling about this guy." The polygraph serves as a proxy for such decisions.
2) Stress test. If your physiological responses are flying all over the place at the mere mention of the word "DRUGS" or "TERRORIST ORGANIZATION," it may be an indicator that you'll shatter like an egg should an enemy get a hold of you. Lies or no, who would you rather entrust with state secrets - someone physiologically unfazed by intrusive questions, or Johnny McSweats whose body gives something away the second it's put under pressure?
added 3) Accountability. By not hiring those that failed polys, LEOs can act without fear that the press/pundits will come out after a leak/embarassment and saying "HE WASN'T EVEN POLYGRAPHED!" etc. This ties into the public perception that polygraphs are very accurate.
This isn't to say I endorse it - those I've spoken with here and elsewhere know how I feel about the poly. It's an absurd tool for an absurd world.
I'm beginning to think the polygraph serves
1) Filter out undesirable candidates for whatever reason. A supervisor wants to put the kibosh on an applicant but can't come right out and tell his peers/underlings "yeah, I just have a bad feeling about this guy." The polygraph serves as a proxy for such decisions.
2) Stress test. If your physiological responses are flying all over the place at the mere mention of the word "DRUGS" or "TERRORIST ORGANIZATION," it may be an indicator that you'll shatter like an egg should an enemy get a hold of you. Lies or no, who would you rather entrust with state secrets - someone physiologically unfazed by intrusive questions, or Johnny McSweats whose body gives something away the second it's put under pressure?
added 3) Accountability. By not hiring those that failed polys, LEOs can act without fear that the press/pundits will come out after a leak/embarassment and saying "HE WASN'T EVEN POLYGRAPHED!" etc. This ties into the public perception that polygraphs are very accurate.
This isn't to say I endorse it - those I've spoken with here and elsewhere know how I feel about the poly. It's an absurd tool for an absurd world.
Posted by CCM
- Mar 10, 2006, 02:32 PMI took my polygraph for federal law enforcement agency a few months ago. I had not seen this site, but it all makes sense to me know. I went in with a clear head and was asked what I now know are control questions, etc. I was asked the usual...i.e. lying to loved ones, contact by foreign govt., etc. Same old thing.... No a good person does not lie to a loved one...blah blah blah.... I honestly wasn't nervous at all. I did not really pay too much to the examiner and told the examiner what they wanted to hear before being hooked up. I guess I have a strong personality and did not really care how they tried to make me feel. I was then hooked up to the machine and the examiner kept growing frustrated with me during the exam. Right in the middle of the first round of questions, I was told me to stop breathing in an irregular manner and to sit still. I just ignored it and continued doing what I was doing. This happened right in the middle of the second round of the first set of questions again and I was told that I am trying to "mess" with the machine. I was interrogated as to why I was breathing in an "irregular manner". I then told the examiner that I was breathing in a normal manner and I could not make myself breathe a certain way for the exam. I replied by asking why I was being told to breathe a certain way. I was confused. I made sure that this statement was caught on tape since I was being recorded supposedly. This continued on several more times. Finally the examiner threatened to stop the test and fail me if I did not start breathing appropriately. I was completely confused. I just continued what I was doing. When I finished, I was asked how I felt I did. I responded by saying I did fine. I was then accused of using countermeasures and I laughed. I told the examiner to explain how I was using "countermeasures", as I really did not know what that was at the time. I just turned it around and kept emphasizing that I was being manipulated by being asked to breathe in a certain manner. I acted like I didn't care and maybe a little arrogant and I was then told that I passed. I am sharing this story because I have read so many stories on this website and I know how this test works. I would highly recommend that before taking one of these exams, you tell yourself that this test is bull*** and that it may be hard to do, but don't be scared. Be a little arrogant. Be more clever than the examiner. Know how to respond to the stupid allegations as in my case, I threw the breathing thing back at the examiner and used it against him. When I was asked about lying to a loved one, I said yes, then the whole routine went on. I then saw this as an opportunity to use it against the examiner. I told the examiner," you mean to tell me that you have never lied to a loved one"? The examiner told me that he is not the one taking the exam and we are here to talk about me. I would not let up. I told him that I did not believe that he had never lied to a loved one and if me lying to a loved one made me a bad person, than so was he. I don't think he heard that one before because he became very defensive. Turn the interview against the examiner when possible. I did that quite a few times. It really seemed to take some of the focus off me and it frustrated the examiner. It allowed me to gain a lot of confidence as if I had the upper hand. Of course you can't overdo it. But try this technique. If you are sharp, it can really work in your favor.
Oh, by the way, I was accused at the end of lying about my drug usage, which I found to be really funny because I have never used a drug in my life!!! I was interrogated for about 30 minutes about this subject and finally, the examiner grew frustrated with me and asked me to explain to him why his machine showed deception. I replied by saying,"your machine must be broken and I think you should look into getting a new one". He then told me I passed and I left.
I hope this story helps in some way to promote the fact that you can be truthful, clever, confident, and not be scared of these exams. THIS TEST IS A JOKE!!!
Oh, by the way, I was accused at the end of lying about my drug usage, which I found to be really funny because I have never used a drug in my life!!! I was interrogated for about 30 minutes about this subject and finally, the examiner grew frustrated with me and asked me to explain to him why his machine showed deception. I replied by saying,"your machine must be broken and I think you should look into getting a new one". He then told me I passed and I left.
I hope this story helps in some way to promote the fact that you can be truthful, clever, confident, and not be scared of these exams. THIS TEST IS A JOKE!!!