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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by polyfool
- Feb 16, 2006, 12:00 AMJohnn,
Thanks for the post. It gives hope and encouragement to those deemed "not within acceptable parameters" by the FBI.
Thanks for the post. It gives hope and encouragement to those deemed "not within acceptable parameters" by the FBI.
Posted by Johnn
- Feb 15, 2006, 01:33 AMQuote from: polyfool on Feb 14, 2006, 10:37 PM
Johnn,
Could it be that the LE agency that took the applicant who failed his FBI polygraph doesn't polygraph and/or is not located within the Justice Department? I would bet that to be the case.
I don't remember about his particular agency, but I know that they filled out an application to another 3 letter agency within Justice, and the indvidual told them up front during the orientation that they had failed the FBi polygraph, but the coordinator said not to worry cause they give their own polygraphs. I can only assume the person passed the polygraph because he got the job.
Justanother and poly,
The person I spoke to who got the job as an LE suffered tremendously as a result of his "failed" polygraph because his family believed the FBI. He felt punished by his family, so he made it a point to apply to other LE agencies who give polygraph exams. He told me he felt vindicated then, he was very happy about not only getting the job, but by telling his family how he passed a polygraph concerning the same questions as those with the FBI.
I PM'd this person before my polygraph asking about different stages of the hiring process, not about the polygraph itself. Little did I know how I would also be affected...
Posted by polyfool
- Feb 14, 2006, 10:57 PMQuote from: justanother1 on Feb 14, 2006, 02:43 AM
Thanks for the words of encouragement, polyfool. How should I clear my name? My first appeal letter was pretty explicit but I did not send anything else after my third poly. Should I follow up with another letter stating my dissatisfaction with the polygraph, or just move on and apply to other agencies (or both)? Thanks.
justanother1,
How to clear one's name with the agency is the million dollar question? I wish I knew the answer to that. If I were you, I would definitely send a letter to the agency disputing the results of your third poly and previous ones as well as reiterating the fact that you told the truth. Move on with your job search and apply to other agencies. Be open and honest if asked about your previous experience with the polygraph and share the fact that you've sent letter after letter trying to clear up the mistake, to no avail. Don't let the FBI hold you back. Your failure is the agency's shame, not yours. You did nothing wrong. Although, LE officers in the lower ranks may not be as informed about the poly, those at the top know exactly what the so-called testing procedure is all about and realize its limitations. If the agency doesn't acknowledge this, it's likely you don't want to work there anyway. Good luck and don't give up.
Posted by polyfool
- Feb 14, 2006, 10:37 PMQuote from: Johnn on Feb 14, 2006, 02:37 AMHi Polyfool, everyone-
Just wanted to let you know that I had read on forums911 of an individual who had in fact failed his FBI polygraph, but was in fact taken by another federal LE agency. I don't remember the details, however, but you might want to surf and search that forum.
Johnn,
Could it be that the LE agency that took the applicant who failed his FBI polygraph doesn't polygraph and/or is not located within the Justice Department? I would bet that to be the case.
Posted by justanother1
- Feb 14, 2006, 02:43 AMQuote from: polyfool on Feb 14, 2006, 12:00 AMJustanother1,
Although, it's been two years, I would strongly encourage you to continue trying to clear your name with the agency. Don't make it easy to get rid of you. After all, it's only your reputation and perhaps, your future career at stake.
Thanks for the words of encouragement, polyfool. How should I clear my name? My first appeal letter was pretty explicit but I did not send anything else after my third poly. Should I follow up with another letter stating my dissatisfaction with the polygraph, or just move on and apply to other agencies (or both)? Thanks.
Posted by justanother1
- Feb 14, 2006, 02:40 AMQuote from: Johnn on Feb 14, 2006, 02:37 AMHi Polyfool, everyone-
Just wanted to let you know that I had read on forums911 of an individual who had in fact failed his FBI polygraph, but was in fact taken by another federal LE agency. I don't remember the details, however, but you might want to surf and search that forum.
I saw some posts on that forum that suggest the same thing. I heard of applicants who failed FBI poly that was hired by DEA.
Posted by Johnn
- Feb 14, 2006, 02:37 AMHi Polyfool, everyone-
Just wanted to let you know that I had read on forums911 of an individual who had in fact failed his FBI polygraph, but was in fact taken by another federal LE agency. I don't remember the details, however, but you might want to surf and search that forum.
Just wanted to let you know that I had read on forums911 of an individual who had in fact failed his FBI polygraph, but was in fact taken by another federal LE agency. I don't remember the details, however, but you might want to surf and search that forum.
Posted by polyfool
- Feb 14, 2006, 12:00 AMJustanother1,
Don't waste your time trying to figure out little things that may or not be part of an examiner's routine. The so-called testing procedure doesn't work and it's counterproductive to think too much about what may or may not have gone wrong with it--the possibilities are endless, I suppose. State, local and federal law enforcement agencies do share polygraph results. Employment applications usually ask about previous polygraphs and as an applicant, you will have to disclose it. However, you shouldn't let that deter you. The impact of failed FBI poly results on future employment could depend on different kinds of circumstances. I think it's pretty safe to assume that federal LE is out for you, especially within the Justice Dept. That's the drift I get. A failed FBI polygraph certainly isn't a gold star, that's for sure. You may have better luck with a local LE agency as some of them don't think highly of the way the FBI administers its polygraph screening program (eg. not videotaping the procedure.) If LE is your dream, you shouldn't give up--keep fighting. As you've discovered, there are some agencies that don't even use the poly for pre-employment purposes or they may not use them the same way as the FBI--all or nothing. Although, it's been two years, I would strongly encourage you to continue trying to clear your name with the agency. Don't make it easy to get rid of you. After all, it's only your reputation and perhaps, your future career at stake.
Don't waste your time trying to figure out little things that may or not be part of an examiner's routine. The so-called testing procedure doesn't work and it's counterproductive to think too much about what may or may not have gone wrong with it--the possibilities are endless, I suppose. State, local and federal law enforcement agencies do share polygraph results. Employment applications usually ask about previous polygraphs and as an applicant, you will have to disclose it. However, you shouldn't let that deter you. The impact of failed FBI poly results on future employment could depend on different kinds of circumstances. I think it's pretty safe to assume that federal LE is out for you, especially within the Justice Dept. That's the drift I get. A failed FBI polygraph certainly isn't a gold star, that's for sure. You may have better luck with a local LE agency as some of them don't think highly of the way the FBI administers its polygraph screening program (eg. not videotaping the procedure.) If LE is your dream, you shouldn't give up--keep fighting. As you've discovered, there are some agencies that don't even use the poly for pre-employment purposes or they may not use them the same way as the FBI--all or nothing. Although, it's been two years, I would strongly encourage you to continue trying to clear your name with the agency. Don't make it easy to get rid of you. After all, it's only your reputation and perhaps, your future career at stake.
Posted by Fair Chance
- Feb 12, 2006, 02:43 AMQuote from: valerie on Feb 12, 2006, 01:18 AMI think it's disgusting what the FBI, and other agencies are doing to applicants. I know that this experience will stay with me forever. Not that I will dwell on it for every single day of my life, but it is certainly not an experience I will forget either.I am so sorry to quote yet another testimony on how a false positive affects one's outlook. The FBI will be very negatively judged by this individual for the rest of her life.
The FBI just shot itself in the foot and has yet another potential legal counselor seeing it in a negative light. All of this because of its false believe in the polygraph.
Regards with sadness.
Posted by valerie
- Feb 12, 2006, 01:18 AMDear justanother1,
I am sorry to hear of your experience with the polygraph. While I cannot really your answer your questions (I just had my first experience yesterday), I sympathize with your situation. It is horrible to have someone who doesn't even know you questioning you as if you belong in a prison cell somewhere.
I think it's disgusting what the FBI, and other agencies are doing to applicants. I know that this experience will stay with me forever. Not that I will dwell on it for every single day of my life, but it is certainly not an experience I will forget either.
I wish you the best, and I think you should continue to appeal as others on the website have told me. Everything happens for a reason, and ultimately everything turns out for the best.
Best regards,
Val
I am sorry to hear of your experience with the polygraph. While I cannot really your answer your questions (I just had my first experience yesterday), I sympathize with your situation. It is horrible to have someone who doesn't even know you questioning you as if you belong in a prison cell somewhere.
I think it's disgusting what the FBI, and other agencies are doing to applicants. I know that this experience will stay with me forever. Not that I will dwell on it for every single day of my life, but it is certainly not an experience I will forget either.
I wish you the best, and I think you should continue to appeal as others on the website have told me. Everything happens for a reason, and ultimately everything turns out for the best.
Best regards,
Val
Posted by justanother1
- Feb 11, 2006, 10:41 PMJust found this site and read about people's experiences and wanted to share mine since I am thinking about applying to other agencies that have polygraph as part of their hiring process. I applied to the FBI 3 years ago and everything was going well until (can you guess?) the poly. This was my first poly ever so I had no clue what to expect but thought the machine pretty much worked as advertised (or not advertised). My examiner instilled fear into my head during the pre-test by telling me that you're an extremely bad person if you ever lied to loved ones and etc. but I didn't make any admissions (even minor ones) during the pre-test. I guess I interpreted his questions in a way that "are you the kind of person who lies to loved ones" and I don't consider myself that kind of person even though we all make small lies to people we love. I noticed that the chair in the room was facing the door and not the wall. There was a small red light that was blinking during the exam that you couldn't help but focus on it. It was kind of hypnotizing in a way but I was still rather nervous throughout the exam from the pre-test scare that my heart was thumping all over the place. I tried to control my breathing but then starting freaking out that maybe I was giving reactions to questions that may indicate deception. So, throughout the entire exam I was a wreck. After each set of questions, he asked me if I wanted to change any answers and I declined. First set was security related and second set was drug related. After second set, he said he was going to redo the second set but rephrasing the questions differently. After it was over, he unhooked me and sat me down and asked me if I ever sold drugs and then went into what kind of other drugs I may have took. I said no to everything (never sold drugs or used anything other than marijuana but not anywhere close to 15 times in my life) and then he told me that I was inconclusive on the second but did better on the third and that he was going to pass me though final word has to come from headquarters. I said ok and was happy that it was over. I remember leaving there saying to myself "Man, I don't ever want to go through that again!".
Found out my results came back inconclusive and had to do it again. This time, chair was facing the wall and examiner told me that they had concerns on drugs and withholding info from my application. He asked me the same questions as the first poly except he wanted to know exact number of times I tried marijuana and I didn't have an exact number and told him this but he wanted an exact number so I went with what was put down in my application. During the exam, I started thinking about the times I smoked marijuana and was freaking out again if it wasn't one or two times higher than I stated since his question on test was "other than what you told me, have you ever smoked more than 4 times". Well, after only one series, he unhooked me and left the room to go speak with QA. After about 30 minutes, he came back and told me I did not pass because of drugs and withholding info. He asked me why I would fail those questions and I told him I didn't know exact number of times since it was a long, long time ago back in college when I smoked and I knew it wasn't more than 15 but I had no clue the exact number. For the withholding info, I had no clue since I filled out that thing rather accurately and didn't leave anything out! He then told me that he needed my help to write in his report why I might have caused deception with those questions and that maybe they would still let me pass. I repeated what I told him and he still pressed on for an admission. He finally gave up and told me that headquarters will have the final say.
My AC called me to tell me that I did not pass. I was so upset and confused. I told my experience to my AC and she said that I can write up an appeal letter to try to get another test. I wrote an appeal letter and 6 months later I was given another test. This time, the examiner was a really friendly guy (unlike the first two). Chair was facing the wall but it wasn't a typical chair that they used. It was a normal chair. I told him about my two poly experiences and he said he read my letter and had me sign a letter about my drug usage since it would help me to have it down in writing (though I already had it down in writing in my appeal letter). I felt confident about the number of times but he didn't ask me the exact number. He left out the questions about my name since he said he already knew the answers to those. At that point, I was confused since I thought the way the poly worked was that they compared those truthful questions such as "is your name so-and-so" and "are the lights on" to the other ones to see if there were any differences. Of course, after seeing this site and reading more about how it works, I now know that's not the case. Anyway, he gave me the test and this time I felt confident in my answers and I was not nervous at all since I been through this two times already. After it was done, he left me hooked up to machine to check results with QA. When he came back about 40 minutes later, he said that I still had issues with the drug question and asked me about it. I had no clue why it was still a problem this time since I was confident in my answers. I didn't admit anything and he didn't probe me that much. Overall, he was actually a pretty good guy and wished I had him my first time around. However, about 2 weeks later, I got the bad news that I failed again.
It's been about 2 years since that last exam and I was very frustrated/angry/sad from the whole experience but I found out that there are other LE agencies out there. I was thinking about applying to these agencies so I researched a number of them and discovered that some have polygraph screening while others don't. Am I now screwed for those ones that have polygraphs since they will know that I failed 2 from FBI? Do agencies share polygraph results with other agencies (even ones without a polygraph screen but still do a thorough background check)? Also, knowing what I know now (how it REALLY works), did I already screw myself?
Last question: Thinking back to my first exam, I noticed my examiner didn't consult with QA like the other two. Is that because he thought I passed and didn't need to consult with anyone? Also, I couldn't help but notice that the location of the chair was different......
Found out my results came back inconclusive and had to do it again. This time, chair was facing the wall and examiner told me that they had concerns on drugs and withholding info from my application. He asked me the same questions as the first poly except he wanted to know exact number of times I tried marijuana and I didn't have an exact number and told him this but he wanted an exact number so I went with what was put down in my application. During the exam, I started thinking about the times I smoked marijuana and was freaking out again if it wasn't one or two times higher than I stated since his question on test was "other than what you told me, have you ever smoked more than 4 times". Well, after only one series, he unhooked me and left the room to go speak with QA. After about 30 minutes, he came back and told me I did not pass because of drugs and withholding info. He asked me why I would fail those questions and I told him I didn't know exact number of times since it was a long, long time ago back in college when I smoked and I knew it wasn't more than 15 but I had no clue the exact number. For the withholding info, I had no clue since I filled out that thing rather accurately and didn't leave anything out! He then told me that he needed my help to write in his report why I might have caused deception with those questions and that maybe they would still let me pass. I repeated what I told him and he still pressed on for an admission. He finally gave up and told me that headquarters will have the final say.
My AC called me to tell me that I did not pass. I was so upset and confused. I told my experience to my AC and she said that I can write up an appeal letter to try to get another test. I wrote an appeal letter and 6 months later I was given another test. This time, the examiner was a really friendly guy (unlike the first two). Chair was facing the wall but it wasn't a typical chair that they used. It was a normal chair. I told him about my two poly experiences and he said he read my letter and had me sign a letter about my drug usage since it would help me to have it down in writing (though I already had it down in writing in my appeal letter). I felt confident about the number of times but he didn't ask me the exact number. He left out the questions about my name since he said he already knew the answers to those. At that point, I was confused since I thought the way the poly worked was that they compared those truthful questions such as "is your name so-and-so" and "are the lights on" to the other ones to see if there were any differences. Of course, after seeing this site and reading more about how it works, I now know that's not the case. Anyway, he gave me the test and this time I felt confident in my answers and I was not nervous at all since I been through this two times already. After it was done, he left me hooked up to machine to check results with QA. When he came back about 40 minutes later, he said that I still had issues with the drug question and asked me about it. I had no clue why it was still a problem this time since I was confident in my answers. I didn't admit anything and he didn't probe me that much. Overall, he was actually a pretty good guy and wished I had him my first time around. However, about 2 weeks later, I got the bad news that I failed again.
It's been about 2 years since that last exam and I was very frustrated/angry/sad from the whole experience but I found out that there are other LE agencies out there. I was thinking about applying to these agencies so I researched a number of them and discovered that some have polygraph screening while others don't. Am I now screwed for those ones that have polygraphs since they will know that I failed 2 from FBI? Do agencies share polygraph results with other agencies (even ones without a polygraph screen but still do a thorough background check)? Also, knowing what I know now (how it REALLY works), did I already screw myself?
Last question: Thinking back to my first exam, I noticed my examiner didn't consult with QA like the other two. Is that because he thought I passed and didn't need to consult with anyone? Also, I couldn't help but notice that the location of the chair was different......