- Welcome to AntiPolygraph.org Message Board.
A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by polyfool
- Jan 23, 2006, 01:51 AMEos,
Exactly. No name jumps out of the frying pan when things get too hot for him to handle.
Exactly. No name jumps out of the frying pan when things get too hot for him to handle.
Posted by EosJupiter
- Jan 22, 2006, 10:43 PMPoly,
Again we give NoNombre the opportunity to defend his position. Again he remains silent. Notice a pattern here.
Regards ....
Again we give NoNombre the opportunity to defend his position. Again he remains silent. Notice a pattern here.
Regards ....
Posted by polyfool
- Jan 22, 2006, 01:36 PMNonombre,
You're so adept at avoiding the valid points and credible questions from posters and lurking around the site, until you see the smallest opportunity to advocate your sham of a career. As I said in a previous post, I knew you'd be back when you saw the timing was right for your agenda.
I've asked you and other examiners this question before and as I'm sure as before it will go unanswered, but here goes again: IF POLYGRAPH EXAMINERS CAN DETECT COUNTERMEASURES, THEN WHY DO THEY ACCUSE EXAMINEES OF USING THEM WHO ARE UNAWARE OF THEIR EXISTENCE?
P.S. Perhaps, you'd feel a lot less "picked on" if you weren't constantly letting your mouth write a check that your a$$ can't cash.
You're so adept at avoiding the valid points and credible questions from posters and lurking around the site, until you see the smallest opportunity to advocate your sham of a career. As I said in a previous post, I knew you'd be back when you saw the timing was right for your agenda.
I've asked you and other examiners this question before and as I'm sure as before it will go unanswered, but here goes again: IF POLYGRAPH EXAMINERS CAN DETECT COUNTERMEASURES, THEN WHY DO THEY ACCUSE EXAMINEES OF USING THEM WHO ARE UNAWARE OF THEIR EXISTENCE?
P.S. Perhaps, you'd feel a lot less "picked on" if you weren't constantly letting your mouth write a check that your a$$ can't cash.
Posted by EosJupiter
- Jan 21, 2006, 07:04 PMQuote from: nonombre on Jan 21, 2006, 01:33 PM
Whoa there, Nellie. Why are you calling me names? I am starting to feel a little picked on here...
All I was doing was pointing out how absolutely stupid this guy's posting was. I mean, c'mon! This person was clearly and correctly identified as attempting countermeasures, then proudly states he didn't admit to it because "polygraphers can't identify countermeasures."
Duuuuuuuuuuh!
Jeez, you guys really believe your own B.S., don't you?
NoNombre,
I call them as I see them. And again I don't sit on fences waiting for something to happen and yell, see see see, the sky is falling.
As far as the DODPI, countermeasures course .... Hmm lets see. A course from a very questionable and unaccredited school, DOD schools though efficient at putting military MOS training out, are not the toughest and most are only marginally recognized by real accreditation counsels., the exception to this being DLI, the Intel Schools, Military Medical training, there are others, but they are few and far between. DODPI's acceditation, ACICS is a trade school certification organization, And let me see, you folks consider yourself professionals. Professionals usually means accredited and valid certifications. Now some of you have real undergraduate degrees from real universities and colleges. THose I consider valid. but in no shape or manner is ACICS worth squat. The only reason you have that at all is any real research institutions or schools, wouldn't touch DODPI with a 10 ft pole.
ACICS school list link:
http://www.acics.org/accredited/documents/institutionsbyprograms2005_000.pdf
See if you can find a top notch research institution in this list. Not even a tier III school. But they do accredit beauty schools.
Try all the countermeasure detection training you like, its not possible to those who know / practice countermeasures cold. And by the way, if countermeasures are not valid or worth the time, then why would DODPI have a course in detecting them. Seems to me DODPI has endorsed (indirectly) that countermeasures work, and they are worried. And tacitly validates this website.
Another example is California Polygraph association meetings schedule link:
http://www.californiapolygraph.com/training/033006conference.htm
The one that is most hilarious is:
Saturday, October 15, 2005
0730–0745 Late Registration
0800-1200 A Fresh Look at Dealing with CM'S
Jim Wygant
What are they going to do sit around and gripe there little sham is completely blown.
At least this time you actually had original verbage and thoughts. Much better than the random, I told you so !!
George: Touche'
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Jan 21, 2006, 06:16 PMNonombre,
The federal polygraph school to which you refer is the Department of Defense Polygraph Institute (DoDPI). This august institution purports to teach students in 14 short weeks how to detect deception. But in truth, graduates can no more detect deception than tarot card readers can tell fortunes. Why should anyone believe that graduates of DoDPI's 40-hour countermeasure (one week) course are, in fact, capable of detecting countermeasures?
By the way, DoDPI's countermeasure course is restricted to "federally certified PDD personnel." In 2005, you represented yourself as a "brand new police polygraph examiner." What would you know about what is taught in DoDPI's 40-hour countermeasure course?
The federal polygraph school to which you refer is the Department of Defense Polygraph Institute (DoDPI). This august institution purports to teach students in 14 short weeks how to detect deception. But in truth, graduates can no more detect deception than tarot card readers can tell fortunes. Why should anyone believe that graduates of DoDPI's 40-hour countermeasure (one week) course are, in fact, capable of detecting countermeasures?
By the way, DoDPI's countermeasure course is restricted to "federally certified PDD personnel." In 2005, you represented yourself as a "brand new police polygraph examiner." What would you know about what is taught in DoDPI's 40-hour countermeasure course?
Posted by nonombre
- Jan 21, 2006, 05:24 PMQuote from: George W. Maschke on Jan 21, 2006, 02:32 PMnonombre,
There are no journal articles or book chapters that explain how to detect polygraph countermeasures.
Mr. Maschke,
But there are several courses available to polygraph examiners that do a very good job teaching polygraph examiners how to detect and counter physical and psychological countermeasures, including a 40 hour course at the federal polygraph school (classroom and lab) that is well established as the "Gold Standard."
So what exactly do you think these people do for a full week? Sit around, throw darts at your picture, and discuss how to accuse everybody of countermeasures until somebody confesses?
Hmmm?
Nonombre
Posted by Sergeant1107
- Jan 21, 2006, 03:08 PMNonombre,
It is specious reasoning on your part to use this case to show that polygraph examiners can detect countermeasures. What is it about this case which lends it any more or less credibility than the many other reports of people who were accused of using countermeasures even though they weren't?
If you are going to use this type of anecdotal evidence to prove your point it would only be fair to recognize similar reports in which the polygraph examiner falsely accused the test subject of using countermeasures. I think we could come up with at least as many, if not more, reports of such false accusations as we could accurate ones.
It think it is far more likely that, as George has hypothesized, examiners routinely accuse subjects of using countermeasures on the assumption that they will be right at least part of the time.
It is specious reasoning on your part to use this case to show that polygraph examiners can detect countermeasures. What is it about this case which lends it any more or less credibility than the many other reports of people who were accused of using countermeasures even though they weren't?
If you are going to use this type of anecdotal evidence to prove your point it would only be fair to recognize similar reports in which the polygraph examiner falsely accused the test subject of using countermeasures. I think we could come up with at least as many, if not more, reports of such false accusations as we could accurate ones.
It think it is far more likely that, as George has hypothesized, examiners routinely accuse subjects of using countermeasures on the assumption that they will be right at least part of the time.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Jan 21, 2006, 02:32 PMnonombre,
There are no journal articles or book chapters that explain how to detect polygraph countermeasures. Nor are there any published studies suggesting that polygraphers can detect them at better-than-chance levels of accuracy. I think it's clear that "countermeasure detection" is an exercise in guesswork. This is borne out by the fact that when polygraphers accuse a subject of attempted countermeasures, they generally decline to specify what, precisely, they think the subject was doing to influence the chart readings.
Even the broken clock is right twice a day, and it is not surprising that polygraphers' opinions that countermeasures have been employed are sometimes correct. To date, no polygrapher has demonstrated any ability to reliably detect countermeasures.
There are no journal articles or book chapters that explain how to detect polygraph countermeasures. Nor are there any published studies suggesting that polygraphers can detect them at better-than-chance levels of accuracy. I think it's clear that "countermeasure detection" is an exercise in guesswork. This is borne out by the fact that when polygraphers accuse a subject of attempted countermeasures, they generally decline to specify what, precisely, they think the subject was doing to influence the chart readings.
Even the broken clock is right twice a day, and it is not surprising that polygraphers' opinions that countermeasures have been employed are sometimes correct. To date, no polygrapher has demonstrated any ability to reliably detect countermeasures.
Posted by nonombre
- Jan 21, 2006, 01:33 PMQuote from: EosJupiter on Jan 20, 2006, 01:22 AMDash,
NoNombre,
I give you credit, you have the ability to only show up when you see something obvious. My how intuitive.
At a wake you would probably see the bad makeup on the corpse and point it out to the dead persons family. Dam you must be one fine polygrapher with that keen sense of timing....(you are) an opportunist in cheap clothing. From previous dealing you still have no stomach for indepth debates. It would be refreshing once in a while.
Whoa there, Nellie. Why are you calling me names? I am starting to feel a little picked on here...
All I was doing was pointing out how absolutely stupid this guy's posting was. I mean, c'mon! This person was clearly and correctly identified as attempting countermeasures, then proudly states he didn't admit to it because "polygraphers can't identify countermeasures."
Duuuuuuuuuuh!
Jeez, you guys really believe your own B.S., don't you?
Posted by EosJupiter
- Jan 20, 2006, 01:22 AMDash,
IF being in Law Enforcement is your dream, than continue to pursue it. Maybe applying to a PD in one of the states that has the smarts not to use polygraphs or even worse the CVSA. Good luck in your job pursuits.
NoNombre,
I give you credit, you have the ability to only show up when you see something obvious. My how intuitive.
At a wake you would probably see the bad makeup on the corpse and point it out to the dead persons family. Dam you must be one fine polygrapher with that keen sense of timing.
How about something original, from the point of opposing articles, original thoughts, or at least an opinion that shows there is more than just an opportunist in cheap clothing. From previous dealing you still have no stomach for indepth debates. It would be refreshing once in a while.
IF being in Law Enforcement is your dream, than continue to pursue it. Maybe applying to a PD in one of the states that has the smarts not to use polygraphs or even worse the CVSA. Good luck in your job pursuits.
Quote from: nonombre on Jan 19, 2006, 09:15 PM
Seems to me they "detected it..."
Nonombre
NoNombre,
I give you credit, you have the ability to only show up when you see something obvious. My how intuitive.
At a wake you would probably see the bad makeup on the corpse and point it out to the dead persons family. Dam you must be one fine polygrapher with that keen sense of timing.
How about something original, from the point of opposing articles, original thoughts, or at least an opinion that shows there is more than just an opportunist in cheap clothing. From previous dealing you still have no stomach for indepth debates. It would be refreshing once in a while.
Posted by Dash
- Jan 19, 2006, 10:43 PMconcernedapple,
I was accused of the same thing eventhough I did not use any CM. Naturally, the whole experience makes me skeptical of a polygrapher's ability to detect it.
If a Law Enforcement career is your dream, apply for other departments and do your best to make it a reality. Some people fail polys at one dept/agency and then pass at another. In my opinion, you have to be honest with yourself about fitting in with the LE organization's background requirements. Keep on trying if you do...
I was accused of the same thing eventhough I did not use any CM. Naturally, the whole experience makes me skeptical of a polygrapher's ability to detect it.
If a Law Enforcement career is your dream, apply for other departments and do your best to make it a reality. Some people fail polys at one dept/agency and then pass at another. In my opinion, you have to be honest with yourself about fitting in with the LE organization's background requirements. Keep on trying if you do...
Posted by nonombre
- Jan 19, 2006, 09:15 PMQuote from: concernedapple on Jan 19, 2006, 05:22 PMI recently was accused of cheating on my last polygraph... I denied it the whole way because I was using mental countermeasures so there was no way for them to detect it.
Seems to me they "detected it..."
Nonombre
Posted by concernedapple
- Jan 19, 2006, 05:22 PMI recently was accused of cheating on my last polygraph. It was the only one I have taken. I denied it the whole way because I was using mental countermeasures so there was no way for them to detect it.
Is my aspiration for law enforcement over now? Will departments not want to let me take another polygraph?
Is my aspiration for law enforcement over now? Will departments not want to let me take another polygraph?