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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by Eastwood
- Dec 29, 2005, 03:01 PMSo much for the expertise you received from this group huh?
Posted by ContraTyrannos
- Dec 18, 2005, 01:27 AMExactly. Everyone lies, especially the man who claims that he does not. The question is whether your lies are noble or ignoble, justified or not justified, self serving or for a greater good. There are good lies and there are bad truths. It takes a wise man to discern the difference, but a thinking person can separate the wise man from the hustler.
Quote from: Mike521 on Nov 04, 2005, 01:40 AMjust want to point out, it seems to be the consensus that someone who would lie shouldn't be a police officer
when interrogating suspects, cops aren't exactly the most brutally honest people in the world, and it's pointed out in the lie behind the lie detector that the first thing a polygrapher does when "prepping" you for a polygraph is lie to you about the true nature of the test, so if your polygrapher is a cop, he's probably lying to you, or at least stretching the truth to it's limits
that being said, my dad is a police officer here and I know for a fact that MANY of the guys he spoke to lied through their teeth on their polygraph, passed, and are now cops. that's not to say that lying is acceptable -- but are all these guys not fit to be cops because they lied? I don't think you can say that with certainty because every case is different.
Posted by ContraTyrannos
- Dec 18, 2005, 01:19 AMBlind obedience to rules is not what makes a good law enforcement officer. To make good decisions, you sometimes have to choose the lesser of two evils. The world isn't binary and neither is police work.
Quote from: polyfool on Nov 03, 2005, 11:51 PM
I have to agree with rcop on this one. It is a good thing that you were not hired as an officer. You have no business being in LE when it's obvious that you believe that the rules don't apply to you. You didn't meet the qualifications of the dept., but figured you'd just apply anyway and lie about your past drug use instead of telling the truth. That quality with a badge is a dangerous combination.
Posted by ContraTyrannos
- Dec 18, 2005, 01:08 AMWhy? He's either worthy of being a cop or he's not.
Quote from: rcop on Nov 03, 2005, 10:03 PMI assume AC posted because he failed the prior theft, criminal activity and domestic violence portions of the test even though he was being truthful in those areas, which confirms the inaccuracy of the polygraph. In any event, it is probably for the best that he did not pass. There are departments that would not have automatically disqualified AC for his past drug use, and he should have applied to one of those departments and been honest.
Posted by ContraTyrannos
- Dec 18, 2005, 01:06 AMThis is the slippery slope argument, and it's a classical fallacy. Have you ever driven your car over the speed limit? Well, what other laws are you willing to break? It's easy to have contempt for degree, but it's also lazy. Plato teaches that certain lies are necessary, even noble. The good, in the last analysis, is higher in dignity than the true. You shouldn't be unjustly held back from your chosen career because you smoked pot more than 15 times when you were in high school, or because you experimented with LSD, if you are no longer a drug user (with the exception of alcohol because we all know that alcoholism is rampant in fire and law enforcement). A polygraph doesn't see into your soul, and it's not an interrogation that is designed to help you. In the absence of any proof of wrong doing, they should not be obsessing over things that happened in your past. Human beings are not static, they are dynamic, which means that in a very real sense, you are no longer the person you were yesterday, let alone 10 years ago. If you tell them what they want to hear to get the job, it doesn't mean you're a bad person. It means you don't think they were worthy of asking you the question in the first place. They don't hook you up to a polygraph machine because they are wise.
Quote from: kane on Nov 03, 2005, 02:50 PMAC,
While I do emphatize with you in regards to the hell of a polygraph test, I have to say that I am very thankful that you will not be a LEO anytime soon.
If you are willing to lie in order to get a LEO job, you have no business being a LEO. These words may be harsh, however I think you understand why.
If you are willing to lie simply to get a job, what else will you lie about?
Posted by Mike521
- Nov 04, 2005, 01:40 AMjust want to point out, it seems to be the consensus that someone who would lie shouldn't be a police officer
when interrogating suspects, cops aren't exactly the most brutally honest people in the world, and it's pointed out in the lie behind the lie detector that the first thing a polygrapher does when "prepping" you for a polygraph is lie to you about the true nature of the test, so if your polygrapher is a cop, he's probably lying to you, or at least stretching the truth to it's limits
that being said, my dad is a police officer here and I know for a fact that MANY of the guys he spoke to lied through their teeth on their polygraph, passed, and are now cops. that's not to say that lying is acceptable -- but are all these guys not fit to be cops because they lied? I don't think you can say that with certainty because every case is different.
when interrogating suspects, cops aren't exactly the most brutally honest people in the world, and it's pointed out in the lie behind the lie detector that the first thing a polygrapher does when "prepping" you for a polygraph is lie to you about the true nature of the test, so if your polygrapher is a cop, he's probably lying to you, or at least stretching the truth to it's limits
that being said, my dad is a police officer here and I know for a fact that MANY of the guys he spoke to lied through their teeth on their polygraph, passed, and are now cops. that's not to say that lying is acceptable -- but are all these guys not fit to be cops because they lied? I don't think you can say that with certainty because every case is different.
Posted by polyfool
- Nov 03, 2005, 11:51 PMQuote from: darkcobra2005 on Nov 03, 2005, 06:47 PMYour post indicates that polygraph worked. That is strange that you would actually post that in this forum.
That being said, it is good that you are not using the substances you described in your post, however there are residual effects from some of the drugs you mentioned and it would not be safe for you to be a LEO.
Good luck in other persuits.
Cobra,
Do you mean that the polygraph worked in AC's case through intimidation? AC says he only lied about drug use, but also failed on theft, criminal activity and domestic violence. That's only one out of four. How do you explain this?
AC,
I have to agree with rcop on this one. It is a good thing that you were not hired as an officer. You have no business being in LE when it's obvious that you believe that the rules don't apply to you. You didn't meet the qualifications of the dept., but figured you'd just apply anyway and lie about your past drug use instead of telling the truth. That quality with a badge is a dangerous combination.
Posted by rcop
- Nov 03, 2005, 10:03 PMI assume AC posted because he failed the prior theft, criminal activity and domestic violence portions of the test even though he was being truthful in those areas, which confirms the inaccuracy of the polygraph. In any event, it is probably for the best that he did not pass. There are departments that would not have automatically disqualified AC for his past drug use, and he should have applied to one of those departments and been honest.
Posted by ACMilan978
- Nov 03, 2005, 06:36 PMI do understand where you are coming from Kane but at the same time you must realize the situation as it presented itself. Like many individuals in college I experimented with drug usage, mainly marijuana, but I had also tried ecstacy once, mushrooms once, and cocaine once. The last three items are means for immediate disqualification for entry into almost every law enforcement organization. While I do realize that the choices were willingly made by myself, I by no means am an active user of any of the above substances and experimented with them several years ago....which left me with only the option of having to lie in order to have the possibility become a LEO.
Posted by kane
- Nov 03, 2005, 02:50 PMAC,
While I do emphatize with you in regards to the hell of a polygraph test, I have to say that I am very thankful that you will not be a LEO anytime soon.
If you are willing to lie in order to get a LEO job, you have no business being a LEO. These words may be harsh, however I think you understand why.
If you are willing to lie simply to get a job, what else will you lie about?
While I do emphatize with you in regards to the hell of a polygraph test, I have to say that I am very thankful that you will not be a LEO anytime soon.
If you are willing to lie in order to get a LEO job, you have no business being a LEO. These words may be harsh, however I think you understand why.
If you are willing to lie simply to get a job, what else will you lie about?
Posted by ACMilan978
- Nov 03, 2005, 12:55 AMI recently took my polygraph for a law enforcement position. I read and re-read the information throughout this website and figured I was prepared as I ever could possibly be. I knew going in that I would have to lie about prior drug use as I would be disqualified automatically if I were to be truthful about my drug history. As expected I went in nervous as hell, I imagine most people probably are. I picked my spot on the wall that I would stare at for the entirety of my test, I bit the hell out of the side of my tongue for the control questions, I controlled my breathing as best as I could. Still though, I could feel my heart racing at certain times and tried in desperation to control my reactions....not good....I failed, but I failed in a way I never would have imagined. Although I did knowingly lie about drug use I was told I failed for 1) drug use 2) theft 3) criminal activity 4) domestic violence. I was blown away by the last three failures and can't account as to how and why I would have failed them, especialy the criminal activity and domestic violence. For an early twenty-something this was an eye-opening and nerve-racking experience that I would wish on no-one. I wish each and every person who is polygraphed the best of luck but there is no guarantee you will pass....even if you tell the truth....I've found out first hand.