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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Jan 10, 2006, 04:45 PMcesium 133,
While it's possible that the polygraph instrument wasn't actually turned on, I think it's highly unlikely. It's standard operating procedure for polygraphers to ask polygraphees about any prior séances.
While it's possible that the polygraph instrument wasn't actually turned on, I think it's highly unlikely. It's standard operating procedure for polygraphers to ask polygraphees about any prior séances.
Posted by cesium_133
- Jan 10, 2006, 06:08 AMIn partial reply to Dash, but with my own comments:
I got the same thing from my last polycrap too with regard to breathing. The interrogator wanted a constant, regular breathing pattern from me, or so he said. So I did just that. Halfway through the test, he asked why I was controlling my breathing! I must have sounded like Forrest Gump when his DI asked him why he had cleaned his rifle so fast: "Because you told me to, sir."
I am on federal probation, so for the record, I don't have to pay for these tests. Thought you all might like to know that from an experiential point of view.
Also, my experience from last time was interesting, and I would appreciate an analysis from George or anyone else...
-the interrogator did not discuss the questions in detail with me prior to the "test". He just alluded to topics that he would ask about (he did keep to those topics).
-he asked all the RQ's first, before accusing me of using CM's (breathing, supra).
-he then went off about me being the type who might be investigated again for whatever, blahblahblah. However, he did not try to extract a confession from me.
-he then asked me questions about lies I might have told, etc, to friends, trusted persons, and so on. It was prep for the CQs, and I knew that. However, he did not discuss specific CQ's with me, and only tried to narrow his focus ("other than what you have told me...") during the actual questioning.
-after that, he abruptly ended it with "all right, I'm done with you." He then proceeded to misrepresent what I did to my PO, who was po'ed a little (pun intended), but eventually seemed to calm down about it.
Question to the brains here: could this polygrapher have simply not been running the test, just playing with me to gauge responses? Could this have been a "bogus pipeline", having his digital poly set up but not functioning (from Wikipedia, under polygraph)? I ask this because he also inquired about certain sensitive things, such as how any prior polys of mine came out, and was upset when I told him the only one I had had was covered by attorney-client privilege (his reply: "[laugh] I don't give a shit when it was done or why!") Really professional of him.
Input welcome...
I got the same thing from my last polycrap too with regard to breathing. The interrogator wanted a constant, regular breathing pattern from me, or so he said. So I did just that. Halfway through the test, he asked why I was controlling my breathing! I must have sounded like Forrest Gump when his DI asked him why he had cleaned his rifle so fast: "Because you told me to, sir."
I am on federal probation, so for the record, I don't have to pay for these tests. Thought you all might like to know that from an experiential point of view.
Also, my experience from last time was interesting, and I would appreciate an analysis from George or anyone else...
-the interrogator did not discuss the questions in detail with me prior to the "test". He just alluded to topics that he would ask about (he did keep to those topics).
-he asked all the RQ's first, before accusing me of using CM's (breathing, supra).
-he then went off about me being the type who might be investigated again for whatever, blahblahblah. However, he did not try to extract a confession from me.
-he then asked me questions about lies I might have told, etc, to friends, trusted persons, and so on. It was prep for the CQs, and I knew that. However, he did not discuss specific CQ's with me, and only tried to narrow his focus ("other than what you have told me...") during the actual questioning.
-after that, he abruptly ended it with "all right, I'm done with you." He then proceeded to misrepresent what I did to my PO, who was po'ed a little (pun intended), but eventually seemed to calm down about it.
Question to the brains here: could this polygrapher have simply not been running the test, just playing with me to gauge responses? Could this have been a "bogus pipeline", having his digital poly set up but not functioning (from Wikipedia, under polygraph)? I ask this because he also inquired about certain sensitive things, such as how any prior polys of mine came out, and was upset when I told him the only one I had had was covered by attorney-client privilege (his reply: "[laugh] I don't give a shit when it was done or why!") Really professional of him.
Input welcome...
Posted by Dash
- Jan 09, 2006, 02:57 AMopp,
Did the examiner accuse you of using CM? It's good to know that you passed even though you were truthful about it. I too hope that the same will apply for me.
Did the examiner accuse you of using CM? It's good to know that you passed even though you were truthful about it. I too hope that the same will apply for me.
Posted by opp
- Jan 08, 2006, 11:22 AMDash,
When I took my polygraph with the CIA, one of the first questions I was asked, was whether I had visited this website. I passed; what do you think my answer was? NO! I was honest about all the questions and I did not use CM during the examination. I referred to this website to learn about the polygraph machine which I was completely ignorant of like most American are. Good luck and I hope you passed.
When I took my polygraph with the CIA, one of the first questions I was asked, was whether I had visited this website. I passed; what do you think my answer was? NO! I was honest about all the questions and I did not use CM during the examination. I referred to this website to learn about the polygraph machine which I was completely ignorant of like most American are. Good luck and I hope you passed.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Jan 08, 2006, 08:54 AMDash,
Your polygrapher might have been especially upset with your mention of AntiPolygraph.org because we've posted the questions they ask. See, LAPD Polygraph Questions Disclosed. As you will see, it's a standard probable-lie CQT.
Your polygrapher might have been especially upset with your mention of AntiPolygraph.org because we've posted the questions they ask. See, LAPD Polygraph Questions Disclosed. As you will see, it's a standard probable-lie CQT.
Posted by Dash
- Jan 08, 2006, 08:29 AMEosJupiter, polyfool, Johnn, and George,
All your comments and insights are equally appreciated.
EosJ,
I really would like to see and understand my test results, but I'm affraid that won't ever happen. In order to submit myself to the test, I had to sign a waiver that basically foreits my right to "read or review any materials produced as a result of the the polygraph test."
All your comments and insights are equally appreciated.
EosJ,
I really would like to see and understand my test results, but I'm affraid that won't ever happen. In order to submit myself to the test, I had to sign a waiver that basically foreits my right to "read or review any materials produced as a result of the the polygraph test."
Posted by EosJupiter
- Jan 07, 2006, 08:31 PMDash,
Some second thoughts about your experience. The examiner was trying to get you to admit to a specific countermeasure(s). Which make me suspect that you might have passed the test, but since he suspected countermeasure use, the polygrapher wasn't trusting his hallowed machine. And when you wouldn't break, he made the decision from a biased perspective. I would ask for the results in writing if thats possible.
Regards ...
Some second thoughts about your experience. The examiner was trying to get you to admit to a specific countermeasure(s). Which make me suspect that you might have passed the test, but since he suspected countermeasure use, the polygrapher wasn't trusting his hallowed machine. And when you wouldn't break, he made the decision from a biased perspective. I would ask for the results in writing if thats possible.
Regards ...
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Jan 07, 2006, 04:20 PMDash,
I also fully empathize with you. About ten years ago, I too was falsely accused of using countermeasures by an LAPD polygrapher (Ervin Youngblood, whom I understand is still on the job at Parker Center). Shortly before that, I had been falsely accused of deception during an FBI pre-employment polygraph.
Believe me, I'm no tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist. At the time of my FBI and LAPD polygraphs, "activist" was a dirty word to me. It took me a good deal of reading at several UCLA research libraries before I came to the conclusion that I hadn't just "fallen through the cracks" of an otherwise valid test, but that polygraphy is complete and utter pseudoscience. And then it was another four years before I realized the need (and mustered the gumption) to speak publicly about polygraph matters.
I also fully empathize with you. About ten years ago, I too was falsely accused of using countermeasures by an LAPD polygrapher (Ervin Youngblood, whom I understand is still on the job at Parker Center). Shortly before that, I had been falsely accused of deception during an FBI pre-employment polygraph.
Believe me, I'm no tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist. At the time of my FBI and LAPD polygraphs, "activist" was a dirty word to me. It took me a good deal of reading at several UCLA research libraries before I came to the conclusion that I hadn't just "fallen through the cracks" of an otherwise valid test, but that polygraphy is complete and utter pseudoscience. And then it was another four years before I realized the need (and mustered the gumption) to speak publicly about polygraph matters.
Posted by Johnn
- Jan 07, 2006, 03:02 PMDash,
I think you volunteered too much information by mentioning this site. This site has a lot of information on counter measures, so whether you "passed" the polygraph, the polygrapher will always have the doubt in the back of his mind. I bet you the spike was fabricated by the polygrapher - he probably lied to you so that you can "admit" to something - especially since you were so honest that you admitted visiting this site. But the fact that you didn't admit to anything probably makes them believe that you read information on this site telling you not to ever admit to anything. Also, he said that you'll get something in the mail in two weeks. Job applicants only get an offer rescinded in the mail when they fail, but do not receive anything when they pass. But who knows if he was being deceptive there as well.
I think you volunteered too much information by mentioning this site. This site has a lot of information on counter measures, so whether you "passed" the polygraph, the polygrapher will always have the doubt in the back of his mind. I bet you the spike was fabricated by the polygrapher - he probably lied to you so that you can "admit" to something - especially since you were so honest that you admitted visiting this site. But the fact that you didn't admit to anything probably makes them believe that you read information on this site telling you not to ever admit to anything. Also, he said that you'll get something in the mail in two weeks. Job applicants only get an offer rescinded in the mail when they fail, but do not receive anything when they pass. But who knows if he was being deceptive there as well.
Posted by polyfool
- Jan 07, 2006, 02:50 PMQuote from: Dash on Jan 07, 2006, 08:55 AMThanks EosJ... it helps to know that others can empathize.
I was really hoping that the post-test interrogation was just some type of psych test. BTW... how can you not stumble across this site while doing your due diligence in preparation for the poly? It's the first item to appear when you Google the word "polygraph."
If it were not for my recent experience, I would've believed someone's opinion that this site was just another conspiracy theorist board full of whining malcontents. Now that I took the test and got clobbered for being truthful, I'm still affected by the shock. How does a polygrapher sleep knowing that he/she can ruin a person's career by making an incorrect assumption? It's unacceptable that such a subjective and bias prone exam continues to hurt honest and qualified people.
Dash,
It seems the more honest an examinee is with his/her polygraph examiner, the more trouble they have with the test--a very unfortunate commentary on the types of people actually being hired. I also halfway believed the post test interrogation was some sort of psych test, but that turned out not to be the case.
It is a terrible shock to experience, but at least you know the truth and are no longer in the dark. I went for months after my polygraph failure not knowing what happened and that made things much worse. I didn't research the poly before I took my exam because I thought it was very cut and dry--tell the truth=pass, lie=fail--we know that's not the case with this twisted
so-called test. I would think that most polygraph examiners would believe that if you researched the poly, you have something to hide. The cards were stacked against you because of your honesty, very unfortunate.
In my opinion, polygraphers don't question themselves when it comes to the results of tests. No matter how ridiculous it may seem to accuse a certain type of person of being a drug addict and/or dealer, they are taught to believe in what the charts say, regardless of what their common sense may be telling them. Sort of like tunnel vision--they're brainwashed into believing the test really works and they're doing society a favor by keeping those failing applicants out of sensitive positions. Polygraphers are on serious ego trips and don't seem to have consciences--at least the ones with whom I've had the displeasure to encounter. I'll give them this--they have impossible jobs. They use a test that doesn't work to determine whether an applicant poses a future security risk to an agency. If they turn out to be wrong, they're going down for an opinion they were forced to come up with by making a wild guess. They truly walk a fine line and foolishly allow themselves be used as the ultimate fall guys.
Posted by Dash
- Jan 07, 2006, 08:55 AMThanks EosJ... it helps to know that others can empathize.
I was really hoping that the post-test interrogation was just some type of psych test. BTW... how can you not stumble across this site while doing your due diligence in preparation for the poly? It's the first item to appear when you Google the word "polygraph."
If it were not for my recent experience, I would've believed someone's opinion that this site was just another conspiracy theorist board full of whining malcontents. Now that I took the test and got clobbered for being truthful, I'm still affected by the shock. How does a polygrapher sleep knowing that he/she can ruin a person's career by making an incorrect assumption? It's unacceptable that such a subjective and bias prone exam continues to hurt honest and qualified people.
I was really hoping that the post-test interrogation was just some type of psych test. BTW... how can you not stumble across this site while doing your due diligence in preparation for the poly? It's the first item to appear when you Google the word "polygraph."
If it were not for my recent experience, I would've believed someone's opinion that this site was just another conspiracy theorist board full of whining malcontents. Now that I took the test and got clobbered for being truthful, I'm still affected by the shock. How does a polygrapher sleep knowing that he/she can ruin a person's career by making an incorrect assumption? It's unacceptable that such a subjective and bias prone exam continues to hurt honest and qualified people.
Posted by EosJupiter
- Jan 07, 2006, 02:08 AMQuote from: Dash on Jan 06, 2006, 08:39 AM
I referenced antipolygraph.org and another site that gave me more background on the history and types of measurements the polygraph took.
Dash,
I commend your honesty but you were screwed the minute you mentioned this site. At that point you would have been better to just get up and walk out. Polygraph assclowns have no sense of humor now that this site exposes what BS artists they are. Welcome to the website and most of us feel your pain as we have been there ourselves.
Botton line ..... Never mention coming here ..
Regards
Posted by Dash
- Jan 06, 2006, 08:39 AMThanks in advance for any help or insight. My apologies for the long story, but I am quite upset and disheartened about the polygraph...
A few weeks ago, I took the polygraph as part of the LAPD applicant screening process. Before I was hooked up to the machine, I explained that I briefly looked up polygraph information on the internet. I referenced antipolygraph.org and another site that gave me more background on the history and types of measurements the polygraph took. The examiner then asked me for my opinion on antipolygraph.org's stance. I explained that I could not form my own opinion without reading more on both sides of the argument. He accepted my statement and we moved on through the test without any issue. At the end of the exam, I was accused of using "Counter-Measures" during the test. I was shocked because all I did was tell the truth and comply with the polygrapher's demand for a specific breathing pattern during the test. It was both frustrating and disheartening that my integrity was attacked eventhough I did not use any deceptive tactics. The examiner began to interrogate me on what countermeasure I used and where I got my "bad advice." My response was that I did not even know how to employ a CM and that the only advice that I received was that I'd be fine as long as I lied about nothing. He then proceeded to show me a spike on the chart that showed I was "holding back something." I didn't know what to reply because I had no idea as to what the spike in the chart represented. At that point, I didn't even know the question or response he was referencing. I just simply asked if my nervousness could play a factor, as my back has involuntarily stiffened up in the past during stressful situations (I was just racking my brain for anything that I could have involuntarily done to create such a result.) According to the examiner, the spike in the chart was a reaction to a drug use question. He reviewed my chart with his supervisor and they both concluded that I was using counter-measures. The polygrapher continued to press for an admission on what CM method I used and who/where I learned to do so. The only answer I could give him was that I was not using any method to defeat the test and that I was completely truthful. I cannot admit to something that I did not do.
The session ended with the examiner telling me that he had to submit his results "as is", and that I would receive something in the mail within 30 days. Does this accusation of using "CM" and post-test interrogation mean that I failed?
A few weeks ago, I took the polygraph as part of the LAPD applicant screening process. Before I was hooked up to the machine, I explained that I briefly looked up polygraph information on the internet. I referenced antipolygraph.org and another site that gave me more background on the history and types of measurements the polygraph took. The examiner then asked me for my opinion on antipolygraph.org's stance. I explained that I could not form my own opinion without reading more on both sides of the argument. He accepted my statement and we moved on through the test without any issue. At the end of the exam, I was accused of using "Counter-Measures" during the test. I was shocked because all I did was tell the truth and comply with the polygrapher's demand for a specific breathing pattern during the test. It was both frustrating and disheartening that my integrity was attacked eventhough I did not use any deceptive tactics. The examiner began to interrogate me on what countermeasure I used and where I got my "bad advice." My response was that I did not even know how to employ a CM and that the only advice that I received was that I'd be fine as long as I lied about nothing. He then proceeded to show me a spike on the chart that showed I was "holding back something." I didn't know what to reply because I had no idea as to what the spike in the chart represented. At that point, I didn't even know the question or response he was referencing. I just simply asked if my nervousness could play a factor, as my back has involuntarily stiffened up in the past during stressful situations (I was just racking my brain for anything that I could have involuntarily done to create such a result.) According to the examiner, the spike in the chart was a reaction to a drug use question. He reviewed my chart with his supervisor and they both concluded that I was using counter-measures. The polygrapher continued to press for an admission on what CM method I used and who/where I learned to do so. The only answer I could give him was that I was not using any method to defeat the test and that I was completely truthful. I cannot admit to something that I did not do.
The session ended with the examiner telling me that he had to submit his results "as is", and that I would receive something in the mail within 30 days. Does this accusation of using "CM" and post-test interrogation mean that I failed?
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Nov 15, 2005, 04:58 PMThe standard procedure is to conduct a post-test interrogation if the charts are scored as "deception indicated." The fact that you weren't subjected to such an interrogation suggests that you probably passed.
It's not unusual for a polygrapher not to tell the examinee whether he/she passed. In fact, that seems to be the more common practice. In the event that you are eventually informed that you failed, you should appeal the polygrapher's opinion in writing. You'll find general suggestions for how to do this in Chapter 5 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector.
It's not unusual for a polygrapher not to tell the examinee whether he/she passed. In fact, that seems to be the more common practice. In the event that you are eventually informed that you failed, you should appeal the polygrapher's opinion in writing. You'll find general suggestions for how to do this in Chapter 5 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector.
Posted by the180
- Nov 15, 2005, 03:02 PMHello. Before I ever knew about this site or polygraphs in general--I took a polygraph exam as part of a LE screening process. It has been weeks now and I still have not heard anything back. I was incredibly nervous and as the exam was finishing he said 'well, you seemed to do okay but there were some spots in which your breathing seemed abnormal.' Then I left.
Is this typical? Is it typical to not get immediate results? How should I handle it if I fail?
Is this typical? Is it typical to not get immediate results? How should I handle it if I fail?