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Posted by dimas
- Sep 07, 2005, 12:05 PMWell obviously NOPD has demonstrated that the polygraph is not a good tool at eliminating officers who will become corrupt or even at catching them prior to employment.
Yes, the polygraph is a great tool at eliciting confessions, but it is failing miserably for the NOPD.
Ultimately, I think the pay structure of the department that is having the undesriable effect. You get what you pay for and when you don't pay then you get crap officers who breed miscontent and corruption.
In a similar comparison of cities populations close to that of New Orleans (or what it had) one can see the following discrepancy in pay from year 1 to year 30, as well as the cost of living compared to NO.
Austin 42,000- 74,762 +7%
El Paso 30,500- 49,812 -1%
Charlotte 32,214- 52,474 -10%
Memphis 40,500- 47,654 +1%
New Orleans 29,978- 34,797
As you can clearly see the pay for NO sucks, there is no kind way of putting it. $30,000 is great money for a 23 year old without a family, but how the heck is a 45 year old with a family supposed to live off of $35,000 with over 20 years in on the force?
Yes, the polygraph is a great tool at eliciting confessions, but it is failing miserably for the NOPD.
Ultimately, I think the pay structure of the department that is having the undesriable effect. You get what you pay for and when you don't pay then you get crap officers who breed miscontent and corruption.
In a similar comparison of cities populations close to that of New Orleans (or what it had) one can see the following discrepancy in pay from year 1 to year 30, as well as the cost of living compared to NO.
Austin 42,000- 74,762 +7%
El Paso 30,500- 49,812 -1%
Charlotte 32,214- 52,474 -10%
Memphis 40,500- 47,654 +1%
New Orleans 29,978- 34,797
As you can clearly see the pay for NO sucks, there is no kind way of putting it. $30,000 is great money for a 23 year old without a family, but how the heck is a 45 year old with a family supposed to live off of $35,000 with over 20 years in on the force?
Posted by polyscam
- Sep 04, 2005, 11:14 PMThe example I was thinking of was one in which a NOPD officer was drug dealing and committed murder. Unfortunately, I do not recall if it was murder by his hand or for hire. No difference really as the outcome was the same. It is perhaps a long-running deep seeded corruption that has led to this most recent improper display of criminal behavior. Although, at this time, I have no suggestion for shedding light on and abolishing such corruption, I do not believe the answer to be polygraph screening.
Posted by dimas
- Sep 04, 2005, 10:35 PMQuote from: Brandon Hall on Sep 04, 2005, 05:38 PM
Now onto the NOPD. Isn't this the same department that experienced some of the worst corruption in the last 20 years? Perhaps the city leaders did not do the job they promised by weeding out departmental corruption. The actions of these 2 criminals in uniform certainly lend to this assumption.
I tried to find out how far back the NOPD has been polygraphing and I came up on a news article about a cop from the 70's who had taken the pre-employment polygraph for NOPD. If they have indeed been polygraphing since then, one has to wonder WTF happened?
I found an article relating to a crooked Louisiana cop that was recently busted for some "child predator" charges. While I am VERY glad this scumbag has been caught, it strikes me as odd that assistant chief of the dept. is actaully bewildered as to "how" this guy made it past their "extensive pre-employment polygraph and background".
http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/sttammany/index.ssf?/base/news-3/1124866418219740.xml
Posted by polyscam
- Sep 04, 2005, 05:38 PMPoint taken. I only felt it necessary to mention and hi-lite the exact description due to the previous thread for which Dimas has kindly provided a link up above. This exchange has only provided proof that words with no ulterior meaning are routinely twisted into a completely out-of-context interpretation. I did that because I felt the same was done to me in the afore-mentioned thread.
Dimas, no I am not currently or previously a LEO. Our "good friend" the polygraph saw to that. However, I do realize, as you pointed out, a suspect description is essential. Yes, I am sensitive to subjects regarding race. I do my best to ensure that words I speak cannot be misconstrued. Unfortunately, this is not always the case and I am sometimes unfairly branded as I did to you.
Now onto the NOPD. Isn't this the same department that experienced some of the worst corruption in the last 20 years? Perhaps the city leaders did not do the job they promised by weeding out departmental corruption. The actions of these 2 criminals in uniform certainly lend to this assumption.
Dimas, no I am not currently or previously a LEO. Our "good friend" the polygraph saw to that. However, I do realize, as you pointed out, a suspect description is essential. Yes, I am sensitive to subjects regarding race. I do my best to ensure that words I speak cannot be misconstrued. Unfortunately, this is not always the case and I am sometimes unfairly branded as I did to you.
Now onto the NOPD. Isn't this the same department that experienced some of the worst corruption in the last 20 years? Perhaps the city leaders did not do the job they promised by weeding out departmental corruption. The actions of these 2 criminals in uniform certainly lend to this assumption.
Posted by Jeffery
- Sep 03, 2005, 02:30 AMI think ultimately what this shows is that cops are humans, and a reflection of the communities they serve (and presumabley, the communities they come from). Much along the same way the military is a cross-section of society. With many good, you get some bad (which we know the polygraph is ineffective at fully screening out).
I think the human tragedy of New Orleans is unlike anything our country has seen in over 100 years. Absolutely amazing. A few cops have tarnished the reputation of their department. Much the same way as a few citizens have tarnished the image of the city.
But that's life, and events like this bring out the best in many and the worst in some. Either way: those people need our help and the police have a very tough job to do.
I think the human tragedy of New Orleans is unlike anything our country has seen in over 100 years. Absolutely amazing. A few cops have tarnished the reputation of their department. Much the same way as a few citizens have tarnished the image of the city.
But that's life, and events like this bring out the best in many and the worst in some. Either way: those people need our help and the police have a very tough job to do.
Posted by dimas
- Sep 03, 2005, 12:30 AMlol, thanks for the laugh...
I did not mean AT ALL for this thread to be centered around race, I meant it to expose the corrupt cops and perhaps drive through the point that you cannot pay cops table scraps and expect to have a professional police force.
Unfortunately, it was somehow turned into a racial thread for reasons that only Brandon knows.
But for the record MINE IS BIGGER
So, I digress, and get back to the point that it is unfortunate that police officers have lost all sense of integrity and resorted to turning into criminals themselves instead of upholding the law. The actions of these few, will overshadow the heroism of the many in the NOPD.
I did not mean AT ALL for this thread to be centered around race, I meant it to expose the corrupt cops and perhaps drive through the point that you cannot pay cops table scraps and expect to have a professional police force.
Unfortunately, it was somehow turned into a racial thread for reasons that only Brandon knows.
But for the record MINE IS BIGGER
So, I digress, and get back to the point that it is unfortunate that police officers have lost all sense of integrity and resorted to turning into criminals themselves instead of upholding the law. The actions of these few, will overshadow the heroism of the many in the NOPD.
Posted by Jeffery
- Sep 02, 2005, 11:44 PMQuote from: dimas on Sep 02, 2005, 09:56 PMBrandon,"Am not."
I believe you are now piling the BS pretty high.
I merely refer you back to the original post I had a problem with you about:...
Yes, Brandon, self loathing or not it ...
"Are too."
"Am not."
"Are too."
"Mine's bigger."
C'mon guys. Time to give this a rest. Everybody has a bit of a bias. However, one should try to overcome that and treat others as they'd want to be treated themselves -- regardless of race, gender, or shoe size.
Let's kiss and make up and get back to doing what we do best -- exposing the fraud of the century (and how it relates to Law Enforcement and other situations).
I think having a rational discussion around race is relevant; but this dialog on who's less racist (or more racist) is non-constructive.
Posted by dimas
- Sep 02, 2005, 09:56 PMBrandon,
I believe you are now piling the BS pretty high.
I merely refer you back to the original post I had a problem with you about:
https://antipolygraph.org/forum/index.php?topic=1494.msg11743#msg11743
Yes, Brandon, self loathing or not it appears that you do have a problem with minorities in law enforcement.
I am not sure if you are or are not a LEO, but the fact of the matter is that when you are writing a report or statement you include a description of the subject you are talking about. This includes their race and ethnicity so that there is no mistake about whom one is referring to. As there are many reports of police officers engaging in the act of looting, I felt that indeed the ethnicity and gender of the specific officers I was referring to was needed to avoid redundancy in a message thread about the same officers. This was placed there as a DESCRIPTION of the two and not for any other reason than that. I cannot control what any of you infer or read into what is written, but it does bother me (doesn't surprise me) that you immediately inferred it was a racial issue.
I believe you are now piling the BS pretty high.
I merely refer you back to the original post I had a problem with you about:
https://antipolygraph.org/forum/index.php?topic=1494.msg11743#msg11743
Yes, Brandon, self loathing or not it appears that you do have a problem with minorities in law enforcement.
I am not sure if you are or are not a LEO, but the fact of the matter is that when you are writing a report or statement you include a description of the subject you are talking about. This includes their race and ethnicity so that there is no mistake about whom one is referring to. As there are many reports of police officers engaging in the act of looting, I felt that indeed the ethnicity and gender of the specific officers I was referring to was needed to avoid redundancy in a message thread about the same officers. This was placed there as a DESCRIPTION of the two and not for any other reason than that. I cannot control what any of you infer or read into what is written, but it does bother me (doesn't surprise me) that you immediately inferred it was a racial issue.
Posted by polyscam
- Sep 02, 2005, 08:24 PMDimas wrote:
Dimas,
You are correct that you were only providing a description of the officers. However, for the purposes of this message board the only description necessary was two fully uniformed officers. Gender and ethnicity were unnecessary to make your point. Your anger was properly directed given that the two were in full uniform and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent.
This is what I asked of you in the other thread, but to no avail. Your previous comments to me illuminated your current commentary. That was your doing.
As you know little about me personally, you know even less regarding my blood-lines. For me to have a problem with minorities would be for me to have a baseless problem with my family and myself. I'm not into the self-loathing thing.
QuoteIt seems very odd, I simply wrote the description of the officers, nothing was meant to be inferred or read into it, but already TWO of you that are caucasian seemed to have read into it your own prejudices and inferred that it was an attack on the officers race and ethnicity. Had I wanted to make a point about that I would have capitalized it or made a comment regarding that issue.
Dimas,
You are correct that you were only providing a description of the officers. However, for the purposes of this message board the only description necessary was two fully uniformed officers. Gender and ethnicity were unnecessary to make your point. Your anger was properly directed given that the two were in full uniform and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent.
QuoteI highly suggest that you READ posts as given and not make assumptions about what is being written.
This is what I asked of you in the other thread, but to no avail. Your previous comments to me illuminated your current commentary. That was your doing.
QuoteFunny, but it isn't my true colors that were flown, I made no attack on the officers for their race or ethinicity, I made the attack based on the fact that they were OFFICERS IN FULL UNIFORM that were LOOTING! It is you who made the inference out of your own prejudices/racism. Once again Brandon, it seems to me that you have a REAL problem with minorites.
As you know little about me personally, you know even less regarding my blood-lines. For me to have a problem with minorities would be for me to have a baseless problem with my family and myself. I'm not into the self-loathing thing.
Posted by rcop
- Sep 02, 2005, 07:56 PMLooking at the police pay Web site, I was amazed at the different amounts of police pay throughout the country. I also thought it was interesting that 31 of the 35 highest paying departments were located in California.
Posted by dimas
- Sep 02, 2005, 05:40 PMThe FACT is that I saw it with my own two eyes, however, just for you I was able to find this article that recounts the same news story I saw.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/8/31/102233.shtml
There you have it!
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/8/31/102233.shtml
There you have it!
Posted by retcopper
- Sep 02, 2005, 04:54 PMDimas:
What are your FACTS that they were taking items for their own good?
What are your FACTS that they were taking items for their own good?
Posted by dimas
- Sep 02, 2005, 03:50 PMQuote from: George W. Maschke on Sep 01, 2005, 07:37 AM
It is perhaps worth noting that NOPD apparently requires applicants to pass a pre-employment polygraph examination:
http://www.nopdonline.com/rec.htm
While I can see the point you are trying to make, I don't think you can directly blame the polygraph for this as it really cannot be an indicator of future behavior. These officers may have lead a good (moral) past but I think that the bigger issue at hand is the pay scale that a city of nearly 500,000 offers to it police officers. You get what you pay for and when you pay crap you tend to hire from the bottom of the success ladder, as well as open up the gate to corruption.
I refer all interested to this site:
1st year police officer pay
www.policepay.net/zmainlinks/1st%20Year%20Base%20Pay.htm
30th year police officer pay
www.policepay.net/zmainlinks/30th%20Year%20Base%20Pay.htm
As can be see New Orleans PD is very close to the bottom with it's 1st year pay of 29K and damn near the bottom with its 35k per year salary after 30 years.
Posted by dimas
- Sep 02, 2005, 02:55 PMQuote from: Brandon Hall on Sep 02, 2005, 06:30 AMDimas wrote:
Ummm...wasn't it you who assailed me in another thread for commentary with regard to the discrepancy in some departments about gender and ethnicity? Thanks for flying your colors. Next time be more careful before damning me with the label of racist.
It seems very odd, I simply wrote the description of the officers, nothing was meant to be inferred or read into it, but already TWO of you that are caucasian seemed to have read into it your own prejudices and inferred that it was an attack on the officers race and ethnicity. Had I wanted to make a point about that I would have capitalized it or made a comment regarding that issue.
I highly suggest that you READ posts as given and not make assumptions about what is being written.
Funny, but it isn't my true colors that were flown, I made no attack on the officers for their race or ethinicity, I made the attack based on the fact that they were OFFICERS IN FULL UNIFORM that were LOOTING! It is you who made the inference out of your own prejudices/racism. Once again Brandon, it seems to me that you have a REAL problem with minorites.
Posted by Jeffery
- Sep 02, 2005, 01:52 PMQuote from: cavhan7 on Sep 02, 2005, 04:26 AMWho knows what they were gonna do with the things that they took. For all we know they could have had kids at home with no food. I know that they are police officers and they should expected higher standards and what not but desperate times call for desperate measure. Judging that they were "robbing" or stealing for a bad reason may possibly be our subconcsious telling us that we are judging them because they were black.How does a shopping cart full of DVDs help a hungry kid?