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Posted by timo
- Aug 23, 2005, 07:59 PMThey told me just before Xmas I had passed and short of doing domestic violence or a DUI I would be getting a final offer any day now.
A couple weeks later I called and they said they needed another piece of paper. A month later I called again and they said they were waiting for another piece of paper. In March I called again and they said they were still waiting, and the HR person sounded annoyed.
In April the person who was to be my supervisor called me and said they were having trouble getting my transcripts, could I call the university and have them sent directly from college to the agency. The HR person also said something about how the BI people had told her the college had told them they were offsite and microfiched. When I called the college they were baffled by that and said they had not gotten any request from the agency for them.
The agency did not want my copies and i did have the official scripts sent directly from the college, but I'm not sure if they got to the right people. There's a local office and an HQ and there was confusion on where to send them. Three months later this letter shows up at an address I haven't lived at in years and an old neighbor was visiting a new neighbor when Fedex tried to deliver and intercepted the letter and sent it to me.
The letter didn't say why. The Local HR person said they'd received a letter from the university that I'd never been there. But I have the feeling they sent the request to the wrong university. I contacted a similarly name U, and they do microfiche transcripts offsite, but not mine.
So if the agency requested my paperwork from the wrong U, they of course got a document back saying I'd never been there. I don't know what happened to the scripts I had sent direct.
So I don't know EXACTLY why I was denied access to secure data. Early in my career I was detached in the 1980's to the NSA and had to have a clearance and poly which I had no trouble with. I knew when I retired I wanted to pursue intel and designed my masters to that end. But I have kept my nose clean and there is nothing at all in my background, good credit, no tickets, no drug use, drinking, affairs, one marriage, good kids, etc...
I have FOIAed my agency background records to see exactly which university they requested transcripts from. But until that file comes, I don't know and can't prove anything and I have the poly in two weeks. If my old neighbor hadn't intercepted the rejection letter I'd still not know and think Agency 1 was just slow finishing.
I've thought what if this goes through and I start working and it catches up with me and figured I'd point out that I'd never gotten the rejection letter, it went to the wrong place, and by that time I'd have my FOIA file and could prove the rejection was because of the Agency's mistake, nothing I did.
I just don't know what is best to do. Advice?
A couple weeks later I called and they said they needed another piece of paper. A month later I called again and they said they were waiting for another piece of paper. In March I called again and they said they were still waiting, and the HR person sounded annoyed.
In April the person who was to be my supervisor called me and said they were having trouble getting my transcripts, could I call the university and have them sent directly from college to the agency. The HR person also said something about how the BI people had told her the college had told them they were offsite and microfiched. When I called the college they were baffled by that and said they had not gotten any request from the agency for them.
The agency did not want my copies and i did have the official scripts sent directly from the college, but I'm not sure if they got to the right people. There's a local office and an HQ and there was confusion on where to send them. Three months later this letter shows up at an address I haven't lived at in years and an old neighbor was visiting a new neighbor when Fedex tried to deliver and intercepted the letter and sent it to me.
The letter didn't say why. The Local HR person said they'd received a letter from the university that I'd never been there. But I have the feeling they sent the request to the wrong university. I contacted a similarly name U, and they do microfiche transcripts offsite, but not mine.
So if the agency requested my paperwork from the wrong U, they of course got a document back saying I'd never been there. I don't know what happened to the scripts I had sent direct.
So I don't know EXACTLY why I was denied access to secure data. Early in my career I was detached in the 1980's to the NSA and had to have a clearance and poly which I had no trouble with. I knew when I retired I wanted to pursue intel and designed my masters to that end. But I have kept my nose clean and there is nothing at all in my background, good credit, no tickets, no drug use, drinking, affairs, one marriage, good kids, etc...
I have FOIAed my agency background records to see exactly which university they requested transcripts from. But until that file comes, I don't know and can't prove anything and I have the poly in two weeks. If my old neighbor hadn't intercepted the rejection letter I'd still not know and think Agency 1 was just slow finishing.
I've thought what if this goes through and I start working and it catches up with me and figured I'd point out that I'd never gotten the rejection letter, it went to the wrong place, and by that time I'd have my FOIA file and could prove the rejection was because of the Agency's mistake, nothing I did.
I just don't know what is best to do. Advice?
Posted by polyrized
- Aug 23, 2005, 07:05 PMIn my situation I applied for a job with the CIA and had a pre-employment polygraph and all the other screening tests. Some months later I was sent a rejection letter from them which did not include a reason for the withdrawal of the conditional offer of employment. As best I could tell at the time, no background investigation had officially been started.
I applied for a job with another federal agency seven years later and was accepted. They conducted a background investigation which I passed and was given a TS clearance. A few weeks into the job I was confronted as being dishonest as I had not put down I'd had a background investigation on my form 86. The results of my polygraph were sent to them.
I have done a lot of research on this and can provide citations. What the CIA does is to conduct pre-screening polygraphs to try and avoid the need for background investigations. In other words, they don't do a background investigation if something comes up on the polygraph they don't like. So filling out 'no' on the form 86 regarding another agency doing a background investigation was a correct answer in my case. Unfortunately, despite being able to provide this documentation about the CIA's polygraph and background investigation practices, my clearance was still suspended because of 'personal conduct'.
My advice is that you go ahead and disclose your story with adequate documentation in advance. Otherwise you will end up with a heck of a problem later on. Although my error was not deliberate I sure wish I could have done it differently and avoided all the mess I'm going through now.
Finally - the reason given to you by phone doesn't ring true to me. I wonder if you actually failed your polygraph or you gave out information they didn't like during that interview and that was the true reason for the disqualification. In any event, if you have a written letter from them about why the job offer was withdrawn you surely would want to include that in your documentation.
I applied for a job with another federal agency seven years later and was accepted. They conducted a background investigation which I passed and was given a TS clearance. A few weeks into the job I was confronted as being dishonest as I had not put down I'd had a background investigation on my form 86. The results of my polygraph were sent to them.
I have done a lot of research on this and can provide citations. What the CIA does is to conduct pre-screening polygraphs to try and avoid the need for background investigations. In other words, they don't do a background investigation if something comes up on the polygraph they don't like. So filling out 'no' on the form 86 regarding another agency doing a background investigation was a correct answer in my case. Unfortunately, despite being able to provide this documentation about the CIA's polygraph and background investigation practices, my clearance was still suspended because of 'personal conduct'.
My advice is that you go ahead and disclose your story with adequate documentation in advance. Otherwise you will end up with a heck of a problem later on. Although my error was not deliberate I sure wish I could have done it differently and avoided all the mess I'm going through now.
Finally - the reason given to you by phone doesn't ring true to me. I wonder if you actually failed your polygraph or you gave out information they didn't like during that interview and that was the true reason for the disqualification. In any event, if you have a written letter from them about why the job offer was withdrawn you surely would want to include that in your documentation.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Aug 23, 2005, 06:48 PMQuote from: timo on Aug 23, 2005, 06:10 PMPeople say, just tell the truth, but I don't believe without proof I can clear myself. Everyone's who is denied has a good story, right?...
Can't you prove that your bachelor's degreee is legitimate? Don't you have transcripts? If the school wrongly reported that it had no record of you, this is something that seemingly could be addressed.
QuoteSo on this last poly I'm going to lie and employ CMs.
While there are good reasons why even a truthful person might use countermeasures, I think that apart from being unethical, it iwould also be foolhardy to lie about having been denied a security clearance by another agency.
QuoteWhat's the chance that Agency one will share with Agency 2 and 3 their results....
Quite good. Agencies do share information, and when a National Agency Check is conducted, Agency 3 will no doubt learn that you have records with Agencies 1 and 2.
QuoteWhat do you think of my chances of passing my poly and llast two BIs?
Considering that you have passed two polygraphs already (your polygrapher will ask about any past polygraphs), your polygrapher with Agency 3 is going to expect you to pass going into it. This is a good thing. While I cannot know your chances of passing background investigations with Agencies 2 and 3, I think it is a safe bet that if you lie about the result of your background investigation with Agency 1 and are caught, you will never be granted a security clearance by any agency ever. And rightly so.
Posted by timo
- Aug 23, 2005, 06:10 PMLast year I got out of the army and got my masters. I applied to all the major intel agencies. Three of them--all of whom do their own BIs--made conditional offers. I've passed 2 of the 3 agencies polys and in two weeks have to do the third.
Problem: The first agency denied me a clearance. Through telephone calls it seems it is because they went to the school where I got my B.S. and the school wrote back they'd never heard of me. So the agency thinks I lied about my education.
When I did my 2nd poly I didn't yet know this. The rejection letter was sent to the wrong address in the wrong state to a house that was torn down about 6 months ago. There is no record of me having been told I was denied.
I am about to take this 3rd poly and they are going to ask if I've been denied a clearance. If I say yes, I'm out. I can't prove it was because of the transcripts. I got my congress person to FOIA my BI records, but it won't happen in time for the test. Right now I don't officially know I've been rejected or why.
People say, just tell the truth, but I don't believe without proof I can clear myself. Everyone's who is denied has a good story, right? So on this last poly I'm going to lie and employ CMs.
What's the chance that Agency one will share with Agency 2 and 3 their results. When I polyed for Agency 2, I told them I had passed the BI for Agency one, and please just go get those records and speed things up. They said they couldn't, and even if they could it would take longer than doing themselves.
What do you think of my chances of passing my poly and llast two BIs?
Thanks,
Mike
Problem: The first agency denied me a clearance. Through telephone calls it seems it is because they went to the school where I got my B.S. and the school wrote back they'd never heard of me. So the agency thinks I lied about my education.
When I did my 2nd poly I didn't yet know this. The rejection letter was sent to the wrong address in the wrong state to a house that was torn down about 6 months ago. There is no record of me having been told I was denied.
I am about to take this 3rd poly and they are going to ask if I've been denied a clearance. If I say yes, I'm out. I can't prove it was because of the transcripts. I got my congress person to FOIA my BI records, but it won't happen in time for the test. Right now I don't officially know I've been rejected or why.
People say, just tell the truth, but I don't believe without proof I can clear myself. Everyone's who is denied has a good story, right? So on this last poly I'm going to lie and employ CMs.
What's the chance that Agency one will share with Agency 2 and 3 their results. When I polyed for Agency 2, I told them I had passed the BI for Agency one, and please just go get those records and speed things up. They said they couldn't, and even if they could it would take longer than doing themselves.
What do you think of my chances of passing my poly and llast two BIs?
Thanks,
Mike