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Posted by beech trees
- Dec 22, 2001, 06:44 PMQuote from: sabo on Dec 21, 2001, 04:42 AMI appreciate all the information and I feel that I am ready to take the test....The more you know, the more comfortable one is sitting in that stupid chair. I feel that Beech is right...I might be trying to complicate the situation, but with my career on the line cause of this ego enhancing machine...I need to have all the CORRECT information.
Sabo unwittingly makes a valid observation concerning the need to complicate things. We need to believe that the basis for judgement of our honesty and character must be founded in a complicated, highly scientific process (as human behavior is myriad and complex). It's truly appalling when one discovers the primitive, simplistic and wildly inaccurate methods polygraphers use.
Posted by AMM
- Dec 22, 2001, 02:24 PMSabo:
Like Beech_Trees, I passed a recent polygraph with flying colors by employing countermeasures. I also employed the same strategy of tape recording possible relevant and control questions and would recommend anyone facing a polygraph to do the same.
George is definitely correct in advising you to manipulate your breathing in addition to using a cardio countermeasure. The techniques (which are consistent with nearly everything found in "The Lie Behind the Lie Dectector") taught by Mr. Williams are very easy to learn. The basic idea is this: constriction and relaxation of the anal sphincter muscule should be gradual and max contraction should occur in the middle of your breathing countermeasure. (Remember to never tighten more than half tension.)
I believe if you practice these techniques and have read all the available literature (DoDPI Manual, etc) there will no surprises on your "exam."
AMM
Like Beech_Trees, I passed a recent polygraph with flying colors by employing countermeasures. I also employed the same strategy of tape recording possible relevant and control questions and would recommend anyone facing a polygraph to do the same.
George is definitely correct in advising you to manipulate your breathing in addition to using a cardio countermeasure. The techniques (which are consistent with nearly everything found in "The Lie Behind the Lie Dectector") taught by Mr. Williams are very easy to learn. The basic idea is this: constriction and relaxation of the anal sphincter muscule should be gradual and max contraction should occur in the middle of your breathing countermeasure. (Remember to never tighten more than half tension.)
I believe if you practice these techniques and have read all the available literature (DoDPI Manual, etc) there will no surprises on your "exam."
AMM
Posted by sabo
- Dec 21, 2001, 04:42 AMI appreciate all the information and I feel that I am ready to take the test. I will let you guys know how it pans out. If anyone else has some insight...I would like to hear it. The more you know, the more comfortable one is sitting in that stupid chair. I feel that Beech is right...I might be trying to complicate the situation, but with my career on the line cause of this ego enhancing machine...I need to have all the CORRECT information. Thanks again!
Posted by beech trees
- Dec 21, 2001, 12:31 AMQuote from: sabo on Dec 20, 2001, 11:24 PM
1)First of all, is it sufficient enough to imply only the anal pucker and not the combination of this and the breathing countermeasure to be successful in passing the highly unreliable test. Asked Mr. Williams this and he said both are needed.
I will preface my responses by saying I passed with flying colors a recent polygraph in which the polygrapher by his own admission had extensive training in detecting countermeasures. The tack I chose was to thoroughly practice the anal pucker, going so far as to tape record a wide variety of relavent and control questions and then run through them repeatedly, working on controlling the 'tracings' and puckering without also contracting sympathetic muscles that might give me away. What I found was that my breathing naturally shallowed out somewhat when at maximum contraction, in perfect imitation of the type of tracing a polygrapher would expect in response to a control question. See here for other examples. For relavent questions, I simply remained calm, thought peaceful, idyllic thughts and pictured myself sitting on a sunny beach. It worked perfectly. I was judged 'strongly non-deceptive'.
Quote2)Ok, say one decides to use both countermeasures, don't they both need to be heightened at the same time...
For example, in the MIDDLE of your breathing countermeasure, is this when your "pucker" should be administrated? HMMM, just don't want to be suspected of using countermeasures....
Don't overly complicate it. As soon as you perceive that it's a control question, begin the contraction and change up your breathing to one of the patterns described in The Lie Behind The Lie Detector.
I would also strongly urge you to read this document thoroughly. Knowing and understanding how these chumps determine honesty based not only on your tracings but also your demeanor, as well as knowing their tactics for getting confessions as well as intimidating you, will allow you to control the interview from start to finish. Good luck, and try not to laugh when the song and dance starts!
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Dec 21, 2001, 12:14 AM1) Any one or more of the countermeasures described in The Lie Behind the Lie Detector might be adequate, but note that breathing is the one tracing that a person can directly manipulate: any of the breathing reactions that DoDPI considers to be scorable may be produced at will. You'll find these illustrated in the DoDPI document Test Data Analysis. (Note that none of these reactions involve taking deep breaths.)
In addition, by maintaining a regular baseline breathing pattern when not answering "control" questions, one can avoid producing scorable pneumograph reactions to the relevant questions. So I think there is a lot of merit to manipulating breathing during the course of a polygraph interrogation.
2) Polygraphers look at the tracings for reactions that begin during, or in the seconds after, the asking of a question. For scoring purposes, reactions need not directly overlap in terms of time. It might be easiest to produce a breathing reaction at the same time as constricting one's anal sphincter muscle. Note that constricting one's anal sphincter muscle won't produce a cardio reaction as immediately as manipulating one's breathing will produce a pneumo reaction.
In addition, by maintaining a regular baseline breathing pattern when not answering "control" questions, one can avoid producing scorable pneumograph reactions to the relevant questions. So I think there is a lot of merit to manipulating breathing during the course of a polygraph interrogation.
2) Polygraphers look at the tracings for reactions that begin during, or in the seconds after, the asking of a question. For scoring purposes, reactions need not directly overlap in terms of time. It might be easiest to produce a breathing reaction at the same time as constricting one's anal sphincter muscle. Note that constricting one's anal sphincter muscle won't produce a cardio reaction as immediately as manipulating one's breathing will produce a pneumo reaction.
Posted by sabo
- Dec 20, 2001, 11:24 PMThere has been a lot of statements and responses as to distinguishing between control and relevant questions, but if one is going to use countermeasures; I think we need to clarify the importance of timing.
1)First of all, is it sufficient enough to imply only the anal pucker and not the combination of this and the breathing countermeasure to be successful in passing the highly unreliable test. Asked Mr. Williams this and he said both are needed.
2)Ok, say one decides to use both countermeasures, don't they both need to be heightened at the same time...
For example, in the MIDDLE of your breathing countermeasure, is this when your "pucker" should be administrated? HMMM, just don't want to be suspected of using countermeasures....
Appreciate it....
1)First of all, is it sufficient enough to imply only the anal pucker and not the combination of this and the breathing countermeasure to be successful in passing the highly unreliable test. Asked Mr. Williams this and he said both are needed.
2)Ok, say one decides to use both countermeasures, don't they both need to be heightened at the same time...
For example, in the MIDDLE of your breathing countermeasure, is this when your "pucker" should be administrated? HMMM, just don't want to be suspected of using countermeasures....
Appreciate it....