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Posted by DippityShurff
- Aug 16, 2005, 03:37 PMGood luck with your plans. If you survive RIP, Ranger school, airborne school and deployment, your character will have matured to the point of wiping away some of your youthful sins. Just make sure you don't add to the list.
Signed,
11B40RP,
'67-'71
2 Bat, 75th Infantry
Signed,
11B40RP,
'67-'71
2 Bat, 75th Infantry
Posted by polyscam
- Aug 10, 2005, 09:54 PMI must agree with Sergeant 1107. I have some stupid decisions in my past which float up to the surface with each agency to which I apply. The biggest concern is marijuana usage at the ages of 13 & 14 along with 3 lapses in judgement (stupid intoxicated decisions for which I am responsible) after turning 21. Although these lapses are regrettable and embarrassing, I always disclose them. I know the standards going in to it and I realize that I am very near the cusp of disqualification. I therefore realize that when compared to other candidates my past actions may hinder me from continuing in the application process...so be it, I sleep well at night.
The one exception to this is that a biased examiner found it necessary to feed off of my close to disqualying past and ramp me up. Guess what...it worked. He stimulated the hell out of me and sensitized me to this particular area of questioning with his interrogatory pre-test interview. Don't know how well he sleeps at night as he has stated he treats all examinees the same.
The one exception to this is that a biased examiner found it necessary to feed off of my close to disqualying past and ramp me up. Guess what...it worked. He stimulated the hell out of me and sensitized me to this particular area of questioning with his interrogatory pre-test interview. Don't know how well he sleeps at night as he has stated he treats all examinees the same.
Posted by Sergeant1107
- Aug 10, 2005, 09:10 PMQuote from: polyrized on Aug 10, 2005, 07:23 PMShould disqualification from a job be based on mistakes you've made in the distant past or should it be based on the chances you will make mistakes in the future?Experimentation is normal, I agree. I think that is the reason why if an applicant admits they drank beer in high school, or smoked a joint or two in high school, they are not automatically disqualified. No one expects to hire saints.
For many people a period of experimentation is part of growing and they end up learning from mistakes... they are probably a lot less likely to have problems in the future than if they hadn't experimented.
But I also think there is a difference between normal experimentation and habitual drug use/illegal activity. A person who smoked marijuana fifty times, or a person who "experimented" with ecstasy five times, falls more into the latter category. A person, even a teenager, should be able to recognize that using drugs is a mistake. Once they realize that, they should stop. If it takes them a long period of time and many uses before they realize their mistake, they are probably showing less responsibility and wisdom than the person who comes to the same conclusion after smoking one or two joints.
Does that mean that, ten years later, they would make a bad cop? Probably not. But if they are standing next to an applicant who is similar to them in every other way, except for the fact that they have little or no drug use in their past, which one would it be more reasonable to hire?
As far as a person's chances of making a mistake in the future, how on earth would you ever quantify that? The only possible method of predicting future activity is to look at a person's past activity, and that is inaccurate as often as it is accurate.
Quote from: polyrized on Aug 10, 2005, 07:23 PMThere is also a certain perversity in a system which punishes candor and honesty while rewarding deception and cheating.I agree. But at the end of the day you have to look yourself in the mirror and know that you were honest and responsible. If the agency to which you are applying doesn't believe you are good enough because of past transgressions, then move on with your head held high. Who cares if someone else lied and made it through? Don't let it bother you – their karma will catch up to them eventually.
Posted by Jeffery
- Aug 10, 2005, 08:54 PMQuote from: polyrized on Aug 10, 2005, 07:23 PMShould disqualification from a job be based on mistakes you've made in the distant past or should it be based on the chances you will make mistakes in the future?Depending on the past mistake, some things can be forgiven; some can't.
QuoteI'd have to disagree a bit here. This is a generalization and I think it is inaccurate. Simply becuase I haven't experimented with drugs doesn't mean I am likely to in the future; nor does it mean my chances of experimenting are greater than somebody who has "learned from their mistakes."
For many people a period of experimentation is part of growing and they end up learning from mistakes... they are probably a lot less likely to have problems in the future than if they hadn't experimented.
QuoteThis I have to agree with.
There is also a certain perversity in a system which punishes candor and honesty while rewarding deception and cheating.
Posted by polyrized
- Aug 10, 2005, 07:23 PMShould disqualification from a job be based on mistakes you've made in the distant past or should it be based on the chances you will make mistakes in the future?
For many people a period of experimentation is part of growing and they end up learning from mistakes... they are probably a lot less likely to have problems in the future than if they hadn't experimented.
There is also a certain perversity in a system which punishes candor and honesty while rewarding deception and cheating.
For many people a period of experimentation is part of growing and they end up learning from mistakes... they are probably a lot less likely to have problems in the future than if they hadn't experimented.
There is also a certain perversity in a system which punishes candor and honesty while rewarding deception and cheating.
Posted by Sergeant1107
- Aug 10, 2005, 06:13 PMQuote from: polyrized on Aug 10, 2005, 04:06 PMIs honesty really the best policy?Yes, it is.
If you are disqualified for a job because of bad choices you made in the past, so be it. A person applying for a job in law enforcement should be mature enough to accept responsibility for actions they chose to take in the past.
Posted by polyrized
- Aug 10, 2005, 04:06 PMI'm a little troubled by some of the responses here. If he doesn't use drugs and avoids doing anything that would lead to a criminal record, who is going to know in five years he took ecstasy unless he himself divulges this information?
I think some of the most honest people end up getting screwed because they have tried to make changes in their behavior and carry some guilt about their past misdeads - so they 'confess' hoping that the federal agency will understand and in some manner excuse what they did years before. The real sociopaths will have no such compunctions and will lie through their teeth and sail through security screening procedures.
Is honesty really the best policy?
I think some of the most honest people end up getting screwed because they have tried to make changes in their behavior and carry some guilt about their past misdeads - so they 'confess' hoping that the federal agency will understand and in some manner excuse what they did years before. The real sociopaths will have no such compunctions and will lie through their teeth and sail through security screening procedures.
Is honesty really the best policy?
Posted by WalkerTR
- Aug 10, 2005, 03:36 PMQuote from: cavhan7 on Jul 19, 2005, 09:35 PMI m going to be trying out for the 75th regiment rangers.
What do you think the 75th is? A football team or something? I think you should look for a career elsewhere, people have been disqualified for a lot less. Your background, despite your changes as a person, carry a lot of weight and tell a lot about your personal conduct.
Posted by Mercible
- Jul 24, 2005, 12:54 AMcavhan7,
Seems like you have made some good plans with a worthy goal ahead of you. Keep your mind on your goals and the rest will usually take care of itself.
Having a college degree and serving as an officer in the US Military will make up for past indescretion. Do well in your studies, graduate with as high a GPA as you can manage. Pay attention in ROTC and learn as much as you can there. It will give you a good jump start as you enter active or reserve military service.
Continue making goals and striving to achieve them!
I wish you good luck and success with your future plans!
[glb]GO NAVY![/glb] (sorry, couldn't help it!)
Seems like you have made some good plans with a worthy goal ahead of you. Keep your mind on your goals and the rest will usually take care of itself.
Having a college degree and serving as an officer in the US Military will make up for past indescretion. Do well in your studies, graduate with as high a GPA as you can manage. Pay attention in ROTC and learn as much as you can there. It will give you a good jump start as you enter active or reserve military service.
Continue making goals and striving to achieve them!
I wish you good luck and success with your future plans!
[glb]GO NAVY![/glb] (sorry, couldn't help it!)
Posted by dimas
- Jul 23, 2005, 04:00 PMcavhan,
Being a teenager and doing "some" drugs seems to go hand in hand now a days. While it troubles me that ANYONE would try ecstasy, so long as it is actually only once you may still have a chance. Many agencies expect some sort of drug usage and usually will expect a 5-7 year lapse since the "experimentation" with the substance. There are, however, many substances that will automatically disqualify you for life. This is completely dependant on the agencies policy.
As far as drinking goes, the problem I see with you is that you will go to college and you are more than likely planning on drinking. While alcohol is LEGAL, drinking while under the age of 21 IS NOT!
So technically you will be breaking the law REPEATEDLY until you are 21 years old and then are expecting on getting a law enforcement job enforcing the laws you have broken over and over.
Being a teenager and doing "some" drugs seems to go hand in hand now a days. While it troubles me that ANYONE would try ecstasy, so long as it is actually only once you may still have a chance. Many agencies expect some sort of drug usage and usually will expect a 5-7 year lapse since the "experimentation" with the substance. There are, however, many substances that will automatically disqualify you for life. This is completely dependant on the agencies policy.
As far as drinking goes, the problem I see with you is that you will go to college and you are more than likely planning on drinking. While alcohol is LEGAL, drinking while under the age of 21 IS NOT!
So technically you will be breaking the law REPEATEDLY until you are 21 years old and then are expecting on getting a law enforcement job enforcing the laws you have broken over and over.
Posted by cavhan7
- Jul 20, 2005, 08:02 PMThe last time that i smoked pot or tried ecstasy was when i was 16. Would being a minor at the time help at all?
Also how much is drinking in college going to affect the application process for government jobs that do polygraphs or for LAPD? I would imagine not very much as long as i dont DUI or do beer runs as long as i prove myself through academic and military acheivements as well.
And thank you sergeant1107 for helping me out.
Also how much is drinking in college going to affect the application process for government jobs that do polygraphs or for LAPD? I would imagine not very much as long as i dont DUI or do beer runs as long as i prove myself through academic and military acheivements as well.
And thank you sergeant1107 for helping me out.
Posted by Sergeant1107
- Jul 20, 2005, 01:00 PMMany agencies will accept someone with a small amount of marijuana usage in their past, but using any other drug (even a single tab of MDMA) will disqualify you.
Your best chance of getting the law enforcement job you desire is to stick with your current plan. Go through college and get a degree. Stick with ROTC if you can and go active duty when you graduate. Serve your term and get an honorable discharge. While doing all of this avoid all drugs, don't cheat on your college exams, avoid binge drinking, don't drive while intoxicated, and don't commit any other crimes of any variety.
Many agencies will discount youthful indiscretions if there is a time period of productive, law-abiding activity in the interval. A twenty-year-old who smoked pot and took ecstasy at the age of 18 will almost certainly be disqualified. A twenty-six-year-old who did the same thing, but who then spent the last eight years drug-free while getting a four-year degree and serving four years in the military, will almost certainly not be disqualified.
Even if you are DQ'd after taking this road, you are still going to be in a great position in life.
Finally, bear in mind that being completely honest on your polygraph, as you stated you intend to be, probably gives you about a 50% chance of passing. You might want to check into law enforcement agencies that don't use the polygraph in pre-employment screening.
Good luck.
Your best chance of getting the law enforcement job you desire is to stick with your current plan. Go through college and get a degree. Stick with ROTC if you can and go active duty when you graduate. Serve your term and get an honorable discharge. While doing all of this avoid all drugs, don't cheat on your college exams, avoid binge drinking, don't drive while intoxicated, and don't commit any other crimes of any variety.
Many agencies will discount youthful indiscretions if there is a time period of productive, law-abiding activity in the interval. A twenty-year-old who smoked pot and took ecstasy at the age of 18 will almost certainly be disqualified. A twenty-six-year-old who did the same thing, but who then spent the last eight years drug-free while getting a four-year degree and serving four years in the military, will almost certainly not be disqualified.
Even if you are DQ'd after taking this road, you are still going to be in a great position in life.
Finally, bear in mind that being completely honest on your polygraph, as you stated you intend to be, probably gives you about a 50% chance of passing. You might want to check into law enforcement agencies that don't use the polygraph in pre-employment screening.
Good luck.
Posted by cavhan7
- Jul 19, 2005, 09:35 PMI am 17 years old and will be a senior in high school this year. I have smoked pot more than 15 times in my life and most likely over 20 times as well. The only hard drug i ve tried in my life is ecstasy and it was once few months back. My life plan is to graduate college with a major in political science and minor in law or criminal justice. I will be in ROTC and most likely serve 2 years on duty and 2 years reserves. I m going to be trying out for the 75th regiment rangers. I m not an arrogant person. I am academically and physically capable of accomplishing these plans. I m not a kid who thinks that the life as a Ranger will be as easy and "cool" looking as it does in Black Hawk Down or any movies. I am fully aware of risks/responsibillites to perform any of these thing that i said i will do. The question i m asking is that with this profile, if i follow up on everything and stay away from drugs or DUIs will i be able to get a job in LAPD or FBI. I don't think i could get a job in FBI no matter how well i perfrom in the military or what i accomplish in school because of my past experience with marijuana. But i m wondering now as i think about colleges and the future of my life, if staying away from partying through my senior year and college years will be worth it when it comes to applying for the LAPD. If there is no way that i can be in LAPD at all because i of what i ve done. I would rather major in something else and get another job. Please respond. If i do apply for LAPD or FBI, it would be 7 years without drug use and with a military backround as a special forces officer. From my academic backround so far in high school i would assume that i would have at least 3.5 gpa or higher in college as well. I m willing to take responsibillity for my past actions and behaviour. I just dont think that it should be held against me when i m not the same person anymore and i have proven myself through years experience and staying clean.
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All your comments and responses will be very appreciated. It seems that i m younger than most of the members here. I am asking this because i trust this website and community. I do believe in what this oragnization stands for and will not and dont plan on using any of the counter-measures for my polygraph test. This is why i m asking. So that i can be fully honest several years from now and get the job by earning it. Thank you and you dont understand how much this will affect my future.
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All your comments and responses will be very appreciated. It seems that i m younger than most of the members here. I am asking this because i trust this website and community. I do believe in what this oragnization stands for and will not and dont plan on using any of the counter-measures for my polygraph test. This is why i m asking. So that i can be fully honest several years from now and get the job by earning it. Thank you and you dont understand how much this will affect my future.