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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by freem40
- Feb 05, 2006, 07:20 AMQuote from: nonombre on Jul 14, 2005, 12:38 AM
Sooo, we wish to 'fudge' some drug use numbers?" So, while we are at it, let's "fudge" some drug transactions, "fudge" some thefts. How about we "fudge" that kid we fondled, or that little lady we got high and raped while she was passed out?
Come one, come all, we'll d our best to teach you how to beat this polygraph test, because after all, the polygraph is the real scourge or our society, not you. We all know, you have the RIGHT to a job on the police department!
In the manner that the polygrapher(s) I have dealt with do, I will go ahead and assume that in this quote, the "we" you are referring to is you and the other polygraphers who apparently regularly monitor this sites activity?
I know of way too many "good cops, tough cops, best back up I ever had cops" that never should have authority in their grasp let alone a gun or a beer bottle.
Side question, why is it that I was cleared for jobs(which I decided not to take) in the military (I was given choices due to high scoring on ASFAB and their background check on me.) such as Security Forces and Intelligence Analyst among others and not cleared for a county corrections job because of a polygraph?.....Where would I be in more sensitive locations involving more important information and/or weapons? MILITARY. Why will the government both local state and federal not adhere to the same standards?
Posted by ContraTyrannos
- Dec 17, 2005, 10:55 PMSmoking pot is a victimless crime. It's morally obtuse to compare it to fondling a child. But let's move past that issue for a moment. A polygraph is only a scourge to society if it lends itself to injustice. If a polygraph is a reliable tool to detect deception, then we can discuss what consistutes a reasonable question during an employment interview. However, if the polygraph is not a reliable tool, and people are unjustly labeled deceptive based on the polygraph, then it is a scourge. How could it be anything else?
Quote from: nonombre on Jul 14, 2005, 12:38 AM
Sooo, we wish to 'fudge' some drug use numbers?" So, while we are at it, let's "fudge" some drug transactions, "fudge" some thefts. How about we "fudge" that kid we fondled, or that little lady we got high and raped while she was passed out?
Come one, come all, we'll d our best to teach you how to beat this polygraph test, because after all, the polygraph is the real scourge or our society, not you. We all know, you have the RIGHT to a job on the police department!
Posted by gelb disliker
- Dec 08, 2005, 02:16 PMAnother one of Eddie Gelb's victims. PHd allows him to brand you a liar and he's got the so called Doctorate to prove it. Gelb still hasn't answered any of us as to where he obtained his Phd, if in fact he truly has one.
Posted by livingdonor
- Dec 08, 2005, 12:56 PMI am troubled greatly that most of the posts in here refers to applicants for CIA, police,etc. I know that there are no perfect people as I am one of them but damn; It is sad that those who will accuse others of wrongdoing should come to terms with who they are first. My life was turned upside-down when Ed Gelb (phd MY @ss) failed me on national television. When Ken Shull months later passed me it restored nothing but stopped an eminant FBI investigation. I volunteered to a poly for one reason and that was to proove I did not sell a kidney to Bob Hickey...I took the poly to settle the verbal accusations not so I could get a job or make money. To those who apply for government positions and are afraid to fail a poly i hope you never run for political office!! Ive done and said things I wish I could take back but donating a kidney is not one of them.
Posted by Bill Crider
- Jul 21, 2005, 10:23 AMWhich questions did he "fail"?
Posted by WifeOfScott
- Jul 21, 2005, 04:12 AM(Yeah right. Why don't I believe you?) My husband is one of the latest victims of this polygraph nightmare scam. There goes our hopes and dreams for FBI job. Hubby says he told the truth but it doesn't matter. I wonder if it's because hubby needed the job - been on disability (for cancer battle) and then on unemployment - and the need for a good job caused him to become nervous. Plus, we had never heard of this website before. Clueless and naive. Who knew?! Hubby says the polygrapher begged him to just tell the truth so he (the polygrapher) could become his "advocate". Sheeeeesh already. Hubby told the guy, "So you want me to make up a lie so I can pass this test and you can become my advocate?" If it weren't so tragic, it would be funny. I was wondering also if sitting for that length of time - especially if you're still recovering from cancer surgery & radiation treatments - made a difference. Who knows? It's a crap shoot.
One thing we learned from all of this: NEVER TRUST THE GOVERNMENT!!
One thing we learned from all of this: NEVER TRUST THE GOVERNMENT!!
Posted by Jeffery
- Jul 14, 2005, 01:21 AMQuote from: nonombre on Jul 14, 2005, 01:13 AM
I know that, Jeff. All I am trying to do is present a possible answer, a "compromise" if you will. I guess none of us here have all the answers.
What I do know is that federal, state, and local agencies of all kinds continue to place great value on the polygraph (whether you believe it is legitimate or not). I, for one have seen the positives that can be derived from polygraph testing.
Yet, there is a very legitimate community of people who have an equally legimate beef with polygraph (mostly in screening)
All I am trying to do is offer an avenue of compromise if that is at all possible. Nothing else.
Nonombre
What good? Have you seen the bad it causes???
For crying out loud, this "compromise" you refer to is such that for every accurate call (i.e. guilty person busted/innocent person vindicated) there is an inaccurate call -- innocent person labeled as deceptive!
This is 50/50. Let's just flip a coin! Or use CVSA?
BTW, can you explain why polygraphers look down on CVSA?
Posted by nonombre
- Jul 14, 2005, 01:13 AMQuote from: Jeffery on Jul 14, 2005, 12:54 AM
I know you have your point system, but until that becomes reality it is moot.
I know that, Jeff. All I am trying to do is present a possible answer, a "compromise" if you will. I guess none of us here have all the answers.
What I do know is that federal, state, and local agencies of all kinds continue to place great value on the polygraph (whether you believe it is legitimate or not). I, for one have seen the positives that can be derived from polygraph testing.
Yet, there is a very legitimate community of people who have an equally legimate beef with polygraph (mostly in screening)
All I am trying to do is offer an avenue of compromise if that is at all possible. Nothing else.
Nonombre
Posted by Jeffery
- Jul 14, 2005, 12:54 AMQuote from: nonombre on Jul 14, 2005, 12:38 AMSooo, we wish to 'fudge' some drug use numbers?" So, while we are at it, let's "fudge" some drug transactions, "fudge" some thefts. How about we "fudge" that kid we fondled, or that little lady we got high and raped while she was passed out?You should know that some polygraphers post here masquarading posts like this to discredit this site. Documented and proven. Not saying that was done here, but take some of these posts with a grain of salt.
Come one, come all, we'll d our best to teach you how to beat this polygraph test, because after all, the polygraph is the real scourge or our society, not you. We all know, you have the RIGHT to a job on the police department!
I don't think anybody has a RIGHT to a police job; but I think they have a RIGHT to a fair and impartial process. Polygraphics is blatantly unfair. I know you have your point system, but until that becomes reality it is moot.
And once again, I subscribe to the theory that "better that one hundred guilty persons should escape than that one innocent person should suffer." (and for arguments sake, many of those 100 guilty men could certainly be excluded from employment had proper investigations been done).
Your industry has caused enough suffering (in the area of screening polygraphs). I look forward to the day when dignity returns to this country.
Posted by nonombre
- Jul 14, 2005, 12:38 AMQuote from: importscout on Jul 13, 2005, 11:59 PMThanks! I'm a little scared of my next poly because it is with my choice agency and I scored 100% on my oral review, which would place me in the top tier to get in if I can just pass the damn poly! I am not an advocate of lying outright for lying's sake, but I would like to 'fudge' some drug use numbers because I don't feel those should be held against me in the hiring process.
Sooo, we wish to 'fudge' some drug use numbers?" So, while we are at it, let's "fudge" some drug transactions, "fudge" some thefts. How about we "fudge" that kid we fondled, or that little lady we got high and raped while she was passed out?
Come one, come all, we'll d our best to teach you how to beat this polygraph test, because after all, the polygraph is the real scourge or our society, not you. We all know, you have the RIGHT to a job on the police department!
Posted by importscout
- Jul 13, 2005, 11:59 PMThanks! I'm a little scared of my next poly because it is with my choice agency and I scored 100% on my oral review, which would place me in the top tier to get in if I can just pass the damn poly! I am not an advocate of lying outright for lying's sake, but I would like to 'fudge' some drug use numbers because I don't feel those should be held against me in the hiring process.
Is controlling your breathing and keeping the sphicter muscle relaxed when asked a relevant question enough to not show a result (or a result that is significant compared to a control)? What if the question makes you nervous or bothers you, in spite of your best efforts to keep your breathing even?
Is controlling your breathing and keeping the sphicter muscle relaxed when asked a relevant question enough to not show a result (or a result that is significant compared to a control)? What if the question makes you nervous or bothers you, in spite of your best efforts to keep your breathing even?
Posted by Sergeant1107
- Jul 13, 2005, 06:05 PMQuote from: importscout on Jul 13, 2005, 04:05 PMThe more I read the book and this message board, the more I understand that the poly tests your poly skills and nothing else, and that 'truthefulness' is a dangerous thing to put your faith in.Importscout,
You make a very good point. Rather than testing for deception or honesty, the polygraph does seem to test only your skills at taking a polygraph.
If you measure the validity of the polygraph by the amount of damaging admissions it solicits (which many pro-polygraph people on this board tend to do), then it would be fair to say that as one's skill at taking a polygraph increases, the validity of the polygraph decreases. That sounds like a good reason for why so many polygraphers are so upset about this site and the information found on it.
Posted by importscout
- Jul 13, 2005, 04:05 PMI too was accused of moving, It was very challenging to sit absolutely still while hideously uncomfortable in a wooden chair staring at a blank wall. Using polygraphy junk science, he probably read my slight movements in my neck and back as being a 'squirming deceptor.' He also told me that he I should lean back and close my eyes, which I felt would add more impact to his words, but he allowed me to keep my eyes open.
He was a hardnosed a-hole, but the funny thing was that this fellow had been doing this for so long, that he didn't pull it off genuinely. It was obvious that he was faking it.
I'm not convinced that honesty is the best policy, because it will not satisfy your interrogator. For example, no matter how many times you say you smoked weed, he will ask you if you smoked it more. No matter how many minor thefts you've committed, he'll as you if you stole more. The more I read the book and this message board, the more I understand that the poly tests your poly skills and nothing else, and that 'truthefulness' is a dangerous thing to put your faith in.
He was a hardnosed a-hole, but the funny thing was that this fellow had been doing this for so long, that he didn't pull it off genuinely. It was obvious that he was faking it.
I'm not convinced that honesty is the best policy, because it will not satisfy your interrogator. For example, no matter how many times you say you smoked weed, he will ask you if you smoked it more. No matter how many minor thefts you've committed, he'll as you if you stole more. The more I read the book and this message board, the more I understand that the poly tests your poly skills and nothing else, and that 'truthefulness' is a dangerous thing to put your faith in.
Posted by hwsternfan
- Jun 21, 2005, 08:46 AMQuoteI don't know what kind of operation they're running, but it seems like they had it in for me from the start.
They just use the polygraph to eliminate who they don't want. It doesn't detect shyte!
Posted by Deputydog
- Jun 20, 2005, 01:12 AMwell said Sergeant