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Posted by Wannabe
- Aug 23, 2001, 02:05 AMSabo,
The probable lie control question is a question the examiner EXPECTS you to lie to thus giving the examiner a reference, as such if your physiological responce to the control question is greater or more pronounced than it is to a relevant question,(irrelevant questions are just that), then you would be considered truthful, that is barring any admissions the examiner may squeeze out of you in pre or post test interviews. So obviously you would answer no to the example you gave or the examiner would rephrase it to "other than what you've admitted to" , by answering no, the examiner would assume it to be a lie, so this is where a countermeasure would be applied if you were to choose to do so.
This is just the way that I understand it, but I am by no means an expert, hope it helps though
The probable lie control question is a question the examiner EXPECTS you to lie to thus giving the examiner a reference, as such if your physiological responce to the control question is greater or more pronounced than it is to a relevant question,(irrelevant questions are just that), then you would be considered truthful, that is barring any admissions the examiner may squeeze out of you in pre or post test interviews. So obviously you would answer no to the example you gave or the examiner would rephrase it to "other than what you've admitted to" , by answering no, the examiner would assume it to be a lie, so this is where a countermeasure would be applied if you were to choose to do so.
This is just the way that I understand it, but I am by no means an expert, hope it helps though
Posted by sabo
- Aug 23, 2001, 01:45 AMThis question may be obvious to you guys but I have read The Lie Behind the Lie Detector and understand the importance of distinguishing between control, relevant, and irrelevant questions, yet during a control question, it is known that the polygrapher is trying to decieve the examinee here through the question asked, however, it is not really stated how we are to answer these questions, noted that I would be using countermeasures. Are we at admission at all during the control questions? Ex..Have you cheated in school? Obvious control question...would the correct method of countermeasuring be saying yes while administering these procedures? Also, what if the truthful answer to that question was no. What would the use of countermeasures be to the polygrapher (through reading of the charts) when our answer was no. Maybe I am just a little confused. Thanks for the help.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Aug 18, 2001, 05:47 AMQuote from: anonymous on Aug 18, 2001, 03:03 AM
Again, i thank you all for your help! I have my poly date confirmed but will not post that date due to the obvious reasons. I am still nervous about recognizing the control questions.
Will the control questions be asked first usually or are they mixed into the relavent questions? That would make it tough if they were mixed. My brain would be going a zillion miles a minute.
And all control questions are time barred right? I don't mean to be a redundant pain in the but hereI will be sure to keep all of you posted. Thanks
All questions should be reviewed with you during the pre-test phase. It is possible that the polygrapher, in reviewing the questions with you, will present the "control" questions together, without mixing them with the relevant questions.
But when the questions are presented during the in-test phase, relevant, irrelevant, and "control" questions will be mixed.
"Control" questions will not necessarily be time-barred. There is no such simplistic method for recognizing them. If you intend to employ countermeasures, then you need to understand the rationale behind the "control" questions, and pick them out during the pre-test phase.
I suggest that you again review Chapter 3 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector carefully, and for further reading see David T. Lykken's book, A Tremor in the Blood: Uses and Abuses of the Lie Detector, (2nd ed., Plenum Trade, 1998) especially Chapter 8 (The Control Question Test).
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Aug 18, 2001, 05:23 AMQuote from: Pseudo Relevant on Aug 17, 2001, 02:34 PM
George, you are correct. Anything the applicant provides during the background/hiring process prior to the polygraph can be material used to formulate control questions.
"Other than what you stated in your pre-polygraph questionnaire, did you ever take anything of value from an employer?" Your example is a relevant question, though a weak one. Control questions must be "time barred" in some manner and deal with a topic similar in nature, but diminished in intensity, to the issue to be asked in the relevant question. An example of the control might be "Prior to your 23rd birthday (applicant age 26) did you take anything of value from a place you worked without permission?" The relevant question above would be much stronger like this "Other than what you stated in your pre-polygraph questionnaire, did you ever steal anything from any of your employers?" This allegedly eliminates the possibility of more rationalization on the part of examinee. The word "steal" is much stronger as it evokes a greater emotional response. Your thoughts?
Pseudo Relevant,
My understanding of the rationale for the use of time bars is that they serve to logically separate the scope of a "control" question from that of the relevant question to which it is being compared. For example, if a 28-year-old subject is being administered a polygraph interrogation about a shooting death that occured in the past 24 hours, then for comparison purposes against the relevant question, "Did you shoot John?" the following "control" question might be used:
"During the first 27 years of your life, did you ever intentionally hurt someone?"
The time bar "during the first 27 years of your life" serves to exclude the incident under investigation from the scope of the "control" question.
But in a screening context, there is no specific incident (known to have occured) under investigation, and the rationale for applying a time bar to "control" questions here is not clear to me. My understanding is that federal agencies generally do not apply time bars to "control" questions in polygraph screening.
Posted by anonymous
- Aug 18, 2001, 03:03 AMAgain, i thank you all for your help! I have my poly date confirmed but will not post that date due to the obvious reasons. I am still nervous about recognizing the control questions.
Will the control questions be asked first usually or are they mixed into the relavent questions? That would make it tough if they were mixed. My brain would be going a zillion miles a minute.
And all control questions are time barred right? I don't mean to be a redundant pain in the but here I will be sure to keep all of you posted. Thanks
Will the control questions be asked first usually or are they mixed into the relavent questions? That would make it tough if they were mixed. My brain would be going a zillion miles a minute.
And all control questions are time barred right? I don't mean to be a redundant pain in the but here
I will be sure to keep all of you posted. ThanksPosted by Pseudo Relevant
- Aug 17, 2001, 02:34 PM[quote author=George Maschke
My understanding of pre-polygraph questionnaires is that they do not recessarily include "control" questions per se, but that they can help the polygrapher in choosing which "control" questions to use.
[/quote]
George, you are correct. Anything the applicant provides during the background/hiring process prior to the polygraph can be material used to formulate control questions.
"Other than what you stated in your pre-polygraph questionnaire, did you ever take anything of value from an employer?" Your example is a relevant question, though a weak one. Control questions must be "time barred" in some manner and deal with a topic similar in nature, but diminished in intensity, to the issue to be asked in the relevant question. An example of the control might be "Prior to your 23rd birthday (applicant age 26) did you take anything of value from a place you worked without permission?" The relevant question above would be much stronger like this "Other than what you stated in your pre-polygraph questionnaire, did you ever steal anything from any of your employers?" This allegedly eliminates the possibility of more rationalization on the part of examinee. The word "steal" is much stronger as it evokes a greater emotional response. Your thoughts?
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Aug 16, 2001, 02:33 PMPseudo Relevant,
My understanding of pre-polygraph questionnaires is that they do not recessarily include "control" questions per se, but that they can help the polygrapher in choosing which "control" questions to use.
Let's take the example Anonymous gave, "Have you ever taken something from an employer worth $5.00 or more?" If an applicant answers "yes" and admits to having stolen last month's payroll from the safe, then there's no need for a polygraph to begin with -- the applicant may be promptly disqualified. But suppose the applicant admits to having pilfered stationery supplies that together are worth about $5.00. This is not grounds for disqualifying the applicant. Yet the polygrapher might still use the probable-lie "control" question, "Other than what you stated in your pre-polygraph questionnaire, did you ever take anything of value from an employer?" While this question would be a "control" question in the context of scoring the polygraph chart, it would also be relevant in the sense that any additional admissions the applicant makes to the polygrapher could be taken as evidence of dishonesty in filling out the questionnaire, and thus serve as grounds for disqualification.
My understanding of pre-polygraph questionnaires is that they do not recessarily include "control" questions per se, but that they can help the polygrapher in choosing which "control" questions to use.
Let's take the example Anonymous gave, "Have you ever taken something from an employer worth $5.00 or more?" If an applicant answers "yes" and admits to having stolen last month's payroll from the safe, then there's no need for a polygraph to begin with -- the applicant may be promptly disqualified. But suppose the applicant admits to having pilfered stationery supplies that together are worth about $5.00. This is not grounds for disqualifying the applicant. Yet the polygrapher might still use the probable-lie "control" question, "Other than what you stated in your pre-polygraph questionnaire, did you ever take anything of value from an employer?" While this question would be a "control" question in the context of scoring the polygraph chart, it would also be relevant in the sense that any additional admissions the applicant makes to the polygrapher could be taken as evidence of dishonesty in filling out the questionnaire, and thus serve as grounds for disqualification.
Posted by Pseudo Relevant
- Aug 16, 2001, 02:01 PMQuote from: anonymous on Dec 31, 1969, 07:00 PMDo they put control questions in the background questionnare? "Have you ever taken something from an employer worth $5.00 or more?" Well, I have aquired things from an employer like paper, pens, and other small things. And yes, these items add up to over $5.00. So I am wondering if the Polygrapher will take this and say, "Other than what you have told me, have you........." COuld this be a control question?
In the BI questionnaires I am familiar with, they don't purposely put "control" questions in. The questionnaire is used to provide you the opportunity to tell all there is to tell about yourself and any infractions you may have committed. The example question you listed: "Have you ever taken something from an employer worth $5.00 or more?" Does not suggest you combine the value of everything you have taken, but consider each item's value singularily and then only list those of five dollars or more.
The second part of your question: So I am wondering if the Polygrapher will take this and say, "Other than what you have told me, have you........." COuld this be a control question? In the format you listed, this is a relevant question. The polygrapher is trying to verify if you have been truthful about having listed all the items you have taken from an employer and are not holding anything back. (The polygrapher does this because he believes the technique actually works. Even though you and I don't believe it does, you have to play along. Use countermeasures as discussed in George and Gino's book, you'll do fine). I hope this helps. Other opinions out there?
Posted by anonymous
- Aug 15, 2001, 11:46 PMOk, I have some more questions. In my BI packet for the department I am in the process with has a list of questions that I had to answer. In the instructions it stated that tese questions would be verified by the poly. Some of the questions in there I could consider "control questions". Some of them were broad, open ended, and would leave some doubt in my mind when asked. Do they put control questions in the background questionnare? Just curious. I don't want these questions to throw me off thinking that they are "control questions" when theyt are really "relavent questions". ALthough broad they do seem important. Example would be......."Have you ever taken something from an employer worth $5.00 or more?" Well, I have aquired things from an employer like paper, pens, and other small things. And yes, these items add up to over $5.00. So I am wondering if the Polygrapher will take this and say, "Other than what you have told me, have you........." COuld this be a control question? Thanks again to all who replied. I just want to make it through this damn thing......
Posted by dimas
- Aug 15, 2001, 05:07 AMI wish you the best of luck on your upcoming Polygraph. I also believe that you should only stick to the "anal squeeze" method and only squeeze slightly at that. I really do not recommend distorting your breathing patterns as it is very easy for us to screw that up and set off little bells inside the examiners head leading him to believe that you are trying to use countermeasures. Think of it this way when you LIE to someone do you really ever notice your breathing pattern change all that much, maybe just slightly? I really don't, but I sure as heck do feel my heart Pump like its going to come out of my chest.
*the most important thing you have to work on is distinguishing the control questions from the relevant and irrelevant. Read that chapter over and over.
Once again good luck.
And Never ever ever make any admissions during the post test interview.
*the most important thing you have to work on is distinguishing the control questions from the relevant and irrelevant. Read that chapter over and over.
Once again good luck.
And Never ever ever make any admissions during the post test interview.
Posted by Pseudo Relevant
- Aug 14, 2001, 01:55 PMQuote from: Anonymous II on Aug 09, 2001, 10:39 PM
No! The way I understand it is you need to employ countermeasures to any question that you want to lie to. I hope this helps.
Just another polygraph examiner misleading the masses again. A great example showing why polygraph should be banned!
Posted by G Scalabr
- Aug 14, 2001, 02:24 AMQuoteI am glad that there is a web site that helps people avoid a machine with no integrity!!!!
Anonymous, thanks for your kind words. Just remember that it's not the machine that lacks integrity. The integrity problem lies within those who operate the device and represent polygraphy as a reliable measure of truthfulness.
Quite simply, polygraph procedure depends on the examiner lying to and deceiving the examinee. Even the most ethical examiners must somehow rationalize this deception to themselves.
In addition to the procedure itself being deceptive, a substantial amount of polygraph examiner behavior outside of the "test" room calls integrity into question. Some examples include bogus claims of high 90th percentile accuracy, (unsupported) claims that countermeasures can easily be detected, and examiners conducting "tests" for agencies that use them as a sole determinant, despite statements from current and past American Polygraph Association presidents that polygraph results are not/should not be used in this manner.
Best of luck, and as the "test" nears, do not hesitate to ask further questions.
Posted by anonymous
- Aug 14, 2001, 01:36 AMThanks for the replies. I am glad that there is a web site that helps people avoid a machine with no integrity!!!! I will have more questions as my poly date get's closer that I will post at the appropriate time. Again, thank you!
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Aug 10, 2001, 06:23 AMAnonymous,
Physiological responses should be augmented only to the "control" questions. Similarly, one's baseline breathing pattern should only be departed from when answering the "control" questions. Note that increasing one's breathing rate is only one of several possible techniques that can be employed.
Physiological responses should be augmented only to the "control" questions. Similarly, one's baseline breathing pattern should only be departed from when answering the "control" questions. Note that increasing one's breathing rate is only one of several possible techniques that can be employed.
Posted by Wannabe
- Aug 09, 2001, 11:00 PMQuote from: Anonymous II on Aug 09, 2001, 10:39 PMYou are obviously a polygrapher, trying to mislead people even when they are not in your little room hooked up to your miracle machine.
No! The way I understand it is you need to employ countermeasures to any question that you want to lie to. I hope this helps.
anonymous: if you look at the way polygraph "works" if your reaction to a relevant question is more than your responce to a control question, this is construed as deceptive, so augmnentation is obviously applied only to control questions to minimize the VERY REAL chance that your body reacts stronger to a relevant question than to the control, even if truthful.
It seems to me that these polygraphers are so accustomed to lying that they carry that over into everything they do.