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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by G Scalabr
- Aug 24, 2001, 05:02 PMCalifMike,
Please note that 911jobforums.com is highly censored. This is a for-profit forum that makes its money by selling advertising to the chiefs of various law enforcement agencies. Any posts exposing the trickery behind polygraph "testing" or mentioning any website that does are quickly deleted and the poster banned.
For the most part, the only advice that they let stand to those who post on upcoming polygraphs is "relax, tell the truth, and you will be fine." As readers of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector know, this advice, while well-intentioned, is just not correct.
Relaxing often leads to slow breathing, which is frequently wrongly interpreted by polygraphers as an attempt to beat the "test." Furthermore, telling the truth is no guarantee of passing. In actuality, you have to lie on certain questions (the "control" questions) to pass. This results on a large percentage of the most conscientious applicants "failing."
Because of the extensive censorship, I suggest taking any advice you receive at 911jobforums.com with a grain of salt.
Please note that 911jobforums.com is highly censored. This is a for-profit forum that makes its money by selling advertising to the chiefs of various law enforcement agencies. Any posts exposing the trickery behind polygraph "testing" or mentioning any website that does are quickly deleted and the poster banned.
For the most part, the only advice that they let stand to those who post on upcoming polygraphs is "relax, tell the truth, and you will be fine." As readers of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector know, this advice, while well-intentioned, is just not correct.
Relaxing often leads to slow breathing, which is frequently wrongly interpreted by polygraphers as an attempt to beat the "test." Furthermore, telling the truth is no guarantee of passing. In actuality, you have to lie on certain questions (the "control" questions) to pass. This results on a large percentage of the most conscientious applicants "failing."
Because of the extensive censorship, I suggest taking any advice you receive at 911jobforums.com with a grain of salt.
Posted by CalifMike
- Aug 24, 2001, 03:09 PMGeorge,
The basis of my understanding that only relevant questions might be asked is completely hearsay. http://www.911jobforums.com/ However, the information may be coming from the uninformed.
Doug Williams mentions this tactic in his publication and claims that the polygraph examiners that use the strategy are not even following their own rules. Nevertheless, it doesn't hurt to be prepared. Mr. Williams suggests maintaining a normal breathing pattern when undergoing this type of exam.
George you have provided excellent infomormation on this topic in a different thread:
https://antipolygraph.org/forum/index.php?topic=242.msg1058#msg1058
The basis of my understanding that only relevant questions might be asked is completely hearsay. http://www.911jobforums.com/ However, the information may be coming from the uninformed.
Doug Williams mentions this tactic in his publication and claims that the polygraph examiners that use the strategy are not even following their own rules. Nevertheless, it doesn't hurt to be prepared. Mr. Williams suggests maintaining a normal breathing pattern when undergoing this type of exam.
George you have provided excellent infomormation on this topic in a different thread:
https://antipolygraph.org/forum/index.php?topic=242.msg1058#msg1058
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Aug 23, 2001, 11:42 PMQuote from: CalifMike on Aug 23, 2001, 09:33 PM
...I understand that the questions I listed in the initial post to this thread are all relevant. However, it is my understanding that it is very possible that only relevant questions will be asked in the exam....
What is the basis of your understanding that only relevant questions might be asked?
Posted by CalifMike
- Aug 23, 2001, 09:33 PMThank you Pseudo Relevant for answering the above concerns. I understand that the questions I listed in the initial post to this thread are all relevant. However, it is my understanding that it is very possible that only relevant questions will be asked in the exam. Knowing that the same set of questions will be asked more than once (usually 2-3 times) should countermeasures be used on a couple of the less serious questions during the first set. Then on the next set do not use countermeasures? If this is not the case, than how would you pass an exam without control questions?
Some of the questions I believe are less serious:
1. Did you tell the complete truth on your job
application?
3. Have you ever been fired from a job? (If they knew you had)
5. Since the age of 12 have you committed an
undetected crime? (Especially if they know you had shoplifted?)
16. Have you deliberately lied to any of these
questions?
Also, might some of the others be control questions if you admitted to them prior to the polygraph?
Some of the questions I believe are less serious:
1. Did you tell the complete truth on your job
application?
3. Have you ever been fired from a job? (If they knew you had)
5. Since the age of 12 have you committed an
undetected crime? (Especially if they know you had shoplifted?)
16. Have you deliberately lied to any of these
questions?
Also, might some of the others be control questions if you admitted to them prior to the polygraph?
Posted by Pseudo Relevant
- Aug 23, 2001, 01:14 PMQuote from: Godzilla on Aug 21, 2001, 11:14 PM
i thought 5,10 and 11 to be control questions?
No, these are all relevant questions. Control questions using the "time bar" are designed to exclude the period of time they are really seeking information about. Question 5 has a time factor in it, but it is inclusive of the present time. Example, question #5 starts "since your 12th Birthday have you...". They are asking you a relevant question to ensure you have told them about every undetected crime you have been involved in after your 12th birthday to the present. The same thing for #10 and #11. They include the present time. "Any one year" can and does include this year and any other year since your birth to this day, this minute, this second. A control question "time bar" will exclude the present. A basic example is this. Let's say you are 26 years old. A likely control question would be like " prior to your 23rd birthday, did you ever take anything from your employer without permission?" That leaves a three year period of time from your 23rd birthday to the present not included in the question. Most likely that remaining three year period will be fired at you in a more direct and threatening relevant question. Control questions can be complex, and what I listed is very basic. I hope this helps, if not we'll work on it some more.
Posted by Godzilla
- Aug 21, 2001, 11:14 PMi thought 5,10 and 11 to be control questions?
Posted by Godzilla
- Aug 21, 2001, 11:11 PMI'm having trouble recognizing control questions, i thought a couple in the above list to be control questions?
Posted by Pseudo Relevant
- Aug 17, 2001, 06:51 PMRegarding the pre-employment polygraph questions, every one of the questions you listed are relevant questions.
Posted by CalifMike
- Aug 17, 2001, 06:19 PMWhat are your thoughts on the identification of the "control" questions in the standard police pre-employment polygraph examination. The following is a list of standard pre-employment questions that have been taken from "Deadly Mistakes Police Applicants Make" by Paul Patti:
1. Did you tell the complete truth on your job
application?
2. Have you deliberately withheld information from
your job application?
3. Have you ever been fired from a job?
4. Are you seeking a permanent position with this
police department?
5. Since the age of 12 have you committed an
undetected crime?
6. Since the age of 12 have you been convicted of a
crime?
7. During the past 5 years, have you used marijuana?
8. Have you used any other narcotic illegally in the
past 5 years?
9. Have you sold marijuana or other narcotics
illegally in the past 10 years?
10. Have you ever stolen more than $20.00 worth of
merchandise in any one year from any of your
employers?
11. Have you even stolen more than $10.00 in moneys
in any one year from any of your employers?
12. Have you ever used a system to cheat one of your
employers?
13. Have you ever had your driver's license suspended
or revoked?
14. Have you had any traffic citations in the past
five (5) years?
15. Are you seeking a job with this police department
for any reason other than legitimate employment?
16. Have you deliberately lied to any of these
questions?
Which of these are "control" questions?
1. Did you tell the complete truth on your job
application?
2. Have you deliberately withheld information from
your job application?
3. Have you ever been fired from a job?
4. Are you seeking a permanent position with this
police department?
5. Since the age of 12 have you committed an
undetected crime?
6. Since the age of 12 have you been convicted of a
crime?
7. During the past 5 years, have you used marijuana?
8. Have you used any other narcotic illegally in the
past 5 years?
9. Have you sold marijuana or other narcotics
illegally in the past 10 years?
10. Have you ever stolen more than $20.00 worth of
merchandise in any one year from any of your
employers?
11. Have you even stolen more than $10.00 in moneys
in any one year from any of your employers?
12. Have you ever used a system to cheat one of your
employers?
13. Have you ever had your driver's license suspended
or revoked?
14. Have you had any traffic citations in the past
five (5) years?
15. Are you seeking a job with this police department
for any reason other than legitimate employment?
16. Have you deliberately lied to any of these
questions?
Which of these are "control" questions?