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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by beech trees
- Mar 30, 2002, 09:58 AMHi John,
Please don't entertain the notion that a polygraph can detect lying. Remember, you're a prospective law enforcement official and as such should be professionally and privately skeptical of 'mind reading machines'. They don't exist John. While I concur that lying about one's past is reprehensible, the polygraph has nothing to do with whether or not one is being truthful on one's application. I can assure you this: If you employ countermeasures as described in The Lie Behind The Lie Detector, you're sure to pass the polygraph. Whether or not you have the right stuff for a career as a LEO I don't know, but you don't want to entrust that decision in part to the lime-green leisure suit wearing types who sit behind the magic spirit box. They're tin gods John, and the information available on this site will arm you against them.
Please don't entertain the notion that a polygraph can detect lying. Remember, you're a prospective law enforcement official and as such should be professionally and privately skeptical of 'mind reading machines'. They don't exist John. While I concur that lying about one's past is reprehensible, the polygraph has nothing to do with whether or not one is being truthful on one's application. I can assure you this: If you employ countermeasures as described in The Lie Behind The Lie Detector, you're sure to pass the polygraph. Whether or not you have the right stuff for a career as a LEO I don't know, but you don't want to entrust that decision in part to the lime-green leisure suit wearing types who sit behind the magic spirit box. They're tin gods John, and the information available on this site will arm you against them.
Posted by Propoly
- Mar 29, 2002, 07:48 PMHi John,
Please don't entertain the notion about lying. Remember, you are a prospective law enforcement officer and lying and law enforcement is not synonymous. Just tell the truth about your past experiences with marijuana. A lot of times, it's up to a particular agency as to what they decide to do during their hiring process. I can assure you of this, if you are less than candid during your application process,you then allow yourself no opportunity to succeed. On top of that, you will more than likely fail the polygraph examination and be DQued. Just be honest and tell the truth. Good luck to you.
Please don't entertain the notion about lying. Remember, you are a prospective law enforcement officer and lying and law enforcement is not synonymous. Just tell the truth about your past experiences with marijuana. A lot of times, it's up to a particular agency as to what they decide to do during their hiring process. I can assure you of this, if you are less than candid during your application process,you then allow yourself no opportunity to succeed. On top of that, you will more than likely fail the polygraph examination and be DQued. Just be honest and tell the truth. Good luck to you.
Posted by 2TrpRnot2Trp
- Mar 29, 2002, 03:27 AMSquid -
Go to http://www.michigan.gov/msp
select education, training and careers (on the left side of the page)
select MSP recruiting
select examination process
The snippet states:
"The examination process begins with a video based written test. The score you achieve on this examination determines if you will be processed further. You may retake the written examination in an attempt to raise your score no more often than once every six months.
Candidates who meet the established cut-off point for the video based testing will continue in the selection process and are subject to a physical agility test, drug screening, traffic and criminal history checks, initial pre-screening interview, background investigation, background investigation review, and a final oral interview. Candidates must successfully complete all of these steps to be placed on the employment list. Candidates who receive a conditional offer of employment will be invited to participate in medical and psychological testing. Candidates passing these tests will be offered an appointment to the Michigan State Police Training Academy in Lansing contingent upon department hiring needs and position availability."
While it doesn't necessarily spell out p-o-l-y-g-r-a-p-h, I think it is a definite possibility.
Heck, just call them and ask? If you're worried about your phone number etc, do it from a pay-phone, but this is a good question, and I'm sure not the weirdest one they've received.
Go to http://www.michigan.gov/msp
select education, training and careers (on the left side of the page)
select MSP recruiting
select examination process
The snippet states:
"The examination process begins with a video based written test. The score you achieve on this examination determines if you will be processed further. You may retake the written examination in an attempt to raise your score no more often than once every six months.
Candidates who meet the established cut-off point for the video based testing will continue in the selection process and are subject to a physical agility test, drug screening, traffic and criminal history checks, initial pre-screening interview, background investigation, background investigation review, and a final oral interview. Candidates must successfully complete all of these steps to be placed on the employment list. Candidates who receive a conditional offer of employment will be invited to participate in medical and psychological testing. Candidates passing these tests will be offered an appointment to the Michigan State Police Training Academy in Lansing contingent upon department hiring needs and position availability."
While it doesn't necessarily spell out p-o-l-y-g-r-a-p-h, I think it is a definite possibility.
Heck, just call them and ask? If you're worried about your phone number etc, do it from a pay-phone, but this is a good question, and I'm sure not the weirdest one they've received.
Posted by SQUID
- Feb 27, 2002, 12:59 PMHELLO EVERYBODY, ANYBODY KNOW IF MICHIGAN STATE POLICE USE POLY DURING THEIR HIRING PROCESS?
Posted by determined
- Nov 21, 2001, 02:10 AMI took a polygraph for a local LE agency today and I was scared to death. I opted to tell the truth about every question I was asked. They asked questions about employee theft and retail theft (off the machine). I have spent the last 9 months in the academy and I have a lot riding on this exam. The polygraph examiner asked me a question like "Other than what you have told me are you withholding any info. about stealing items" I hope this was a control question because I about jumped out of the seat. He only asked me about certain things and not about everything I had ever stolen. i.e. money from my parents, etc.. I thought about it a second and told him no because I had answered him truthfully on the questions he asked me. Does this mean I will most likely appear deceptive or does this mean if I was calmer when I answered the relevant questions I should be Ok? Also, I was not given the results. I asked him if I passed and he told me that he had to look over the chart. Is this good or bad. I did some stupid stuff in college but nothing too bad. 
Posted by dan
- Sep 17, 2001, 02:59 PMHey folks! It's Dan. I just wanted you to know that I have decided to hold off the Sheriff thing for a while. As you all know, there has been a terrible tragedy in America involving terrorists. Because of these horrible events that took place in this blessed land, I have decided to join the Military instead. I hope someday when (if) I get back, I can continue with my pursuit to be a sheriff. Either way, I'll be serving and protecting America's people.
"God Bless America"
"God Bless America"
Posted by Pseudo Relevant
- Sep 10, 2001, 07:16 PMQuote from: wannabe on Sep 10, 2001, 06:20 PM
just because someone elses opinion differs from yours, does not make them wrong or incompetent to form their own opinion or blowing smoke up someones skirt. So if you feel the need to continue this childish squabble, it will go unanswered, I feel I justified my opinion, if not, oh well.
but I do apologize for the polygrapher comment, it was below the belt.
No need to apologize. I'm glad you believe in Utopia. Perhaps if more people did the world would be a better place (definitely wouldn't be a need for polygraph).
Posted by Wannabe
- Sep 10, 2001, 06:20 PMyour right, that was a low blow and I apologize, and just to let you know, I do have alot of respect for your experience, but in my HUMBLE opinion, you do have a better than you attitude, as evidenced your posts.
like I said, I do respect your experience, but just because someone elses opinion differs from yours, does not make them wrong or incompetent to form their own opinion or blowing smoke up someones skirt. So if you feel the need to continue this childish squabble, it will go unanswered, I feel I justified my opinion, if not, oh well.
but I do apologize for the polygrapher comment, it was below the belt.
peace
QuoteWannabe: If you are a law enforcement officer already, congrats. If not, you are out of your league telling others who should and should not seek a career in LE
QuoteQuote:Are you implying that ONLY police officers are capable of determining ones fitness for a career in LE?
Quote
No. What I am implying is that you apparently have no LE experience to draw upon which would allow you to make a thoroughly informed decision. You are trying to determine for others what is and is not an acceptable history based on your own moral standards. Not an entirely bad thing, but not fair or realistic. If what you said to/about Dan is a hard and fast rule (should you be in the position of making any hiring decisions for LE personnel) then your success rate will be very very low.
like I said, I do respect your experience, but just because someone elses opinion differs from yours, does not make them wrong or incompetent to form their own opinion or blowing smoke up someones skirt. So if you feel the need to continue this childish squabble, it will go unanswered, I feel I justified my opinion, if not, oh well.
but I do apologize for the polygrapher comment, it was below the belt.
peace
Posted by Pseudo Relevant
- Sep 10, 2001, 05:49 PMPosted by Wannabe
- Sep 10, 2001, 03:51 PMyeah whatever
btw the pm:
is taken into advisement, but just so you know, I am not out to "win" anything, as for handling it, your replies are self defeating so I have nothing to handle.
and if that's friendly advice, you must be a polygrapher LOL
cheers
btw the pm:
QuoteIf you want to engage in personal attacks in the public forum, I'll stand toe to toe with you, doesn't bother me. If you don't, then may I suggest you think your position through before spewing a line of baseless advice, so you won't invite a debate you can't handle or win. Just some friendly advice...
Pseudo Relevant
is taken into advisement, but just so you know, I am not out to "win" anything, as for handling it, your replies are self defeating so I have nothing to handle.
and if that's friendly advice, you must be a polygrapher LOL
cheers
Posted by Pseudo Relevant
- Sep 10, 2001, 01:07 PMQuote from: wannabe on Sep 07, 2001, 09:00 PM
Pseudo Relevant's holier that everyone's attitude is strikingly similar to that of the polygraph communities which he attacks.
I never claimed to better than anyone. My "attacks" as you call them, have substance, unlike your original comments to Dan. You obviously know you were wrong, so let's just leave it at that.
Quote
Again Dan I apologize if I seemed harsh I didn't thnk I had been, I simply said that if this is the way you feel, then I think you should seek another line of work.
You are entitled to your opinion, even though it's not based on reality or fact, but we've already been over all of that.
Posted by Wannabe
- Sep 07, 2001, 10:31 PMDan,
I truly wish you luck, let us know how it turns out
I truly wish you luck, let us know how it turns out
Posted by dan
- Sep 07, 2001, 09:33 PMI want everyone to know that I came to this site for advice, and no doubt I got it. But I will still continue with the departments' testing process, no matter the outcome. I want the sheriff's dept. to know what I did and know that I accept the responsibility of my wrongdoing. Doing nothing and not continuing with the testing assures me of not getting the job.
At least if I continue, I still might have a chance, depending on how mature and understanding my employer is.
Thank you for everyones advice and I'll post a reply soon to let you all know how it went.
At least if I continue, I still might have a chance, depending on how mature and understanding my employer is.
Thank you for everyones advice and I'll post a reply soon to let you all know how it went.
Posted by Wannabe
- Sep 07, 2001, 09:00 PMDan, I am not and did not attempt to put you down nor judge you, you asked for opinions, I gave mine, it simply appeared to me that you chose to justify your actions HERE not back when you were 18, if you did indeed learn from it then I apologize, but I would expect the same if I were to come here and say that "I did this.... BUT the guy was a jerk so he deserved it and there was no way to get caught, should I confess?" see my point? if I were to say, " when I was young I did something I didn't get caught for, but learned from it etc.." I would expect different results.
Pseudo Relevant's holier that everyone's attitude is strikingly similar to that of the polygraph communities which he attacks.
Again Dan I apologize if I seemed harsh I didn't thnk I had been, I simply said that if this is the way you feel, then I think you should seek another line of work.
peace
Pseudo Relevant's holier that everyone's attitude is strikingly similar to that of the polygraph communities which he attacks.
QuoteYou are trying to determine for others what is and is not an acceptable history based on your own moral standards. Not an entirely bad thing, but not fair or realistic.I thought that was what he asked us to do.
Again Dan I apologize if I seemed harsh I didn't thnk I had been, I simply said that if this is the way you feel, then I think you should seek another line of work.
peace
Posted by dan
- Sep 07, 2001, 07:56 PMOf all the replies I have recieved, I accept the ones siding with me. Not because I like hearing them, but because they're the only ones that give any reasons without putting down anyone elses. I think that the people who have something bad to say about me have something eating away at their soul, too, but just choose to rag on someone else to make themselves look better. I'm not saying that I don't appreciate your replies, but I am saying if you're going to reply to my problem, than direct it to me.