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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by THE_NEW_HOT_CHICK
- Feb 04, 2003, 05:52 PMHi, Thanks for writing back. My new e-mail address is: depember28@aol.com That would be great if you can e-mail something on CVSA and I can tell you more about the polygrapher, hope to hear from you soon.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Feb 04, 2003, 10:19 AMWith regard to your first question, you might send your letter of appeal either to the Chief of Police or to the head of the section that sent you your rejection letter.
I really don't know the answers to the rest of your questions. If the polygrapher who falsely accused you is the polygrapher contracted by other police departments, it may doom your applications with those departments to failure.
I would be interested in hearing more from you about the polygrapher and agency involved. If you'd rather not publicly post that information, you could either send me a private message or an e-mail. By the way, I tried to e-mail you some additional information about CVSA using the e-mail address you used to register on this message board, but my message bounced back.
I really don't know the answers to the rest of your questions. If the polygrapher who falsely accused you is the polygrapher contracted by other police departments, it may doom your applications with those departments to failure.
I would be interested in hearing more from you about the polygrapher and agency involved. If you'd rather not publicly post that information, you could either send me a private message or an e-mail. By the way, I tried to e-mail you some additional information about CVSA using the e-mail address you used to register on this message board, but my message bounced back.
Posted by THE_NEW_HOT_CHICK
- Feb 03, 2003, 04:50 PMHi sorry about the caps, it was very late when I wrote my first message. Thank You for answering my questions. I still have some other ones maybe you can help me with.
1) If I appeal the first polygraph, who do I address it to, the Chief of Police?
2) I applied for about 8 agencies in my area, when I took that awful polygragh with that guy he said that he would probably see me again. If I get sent back there do I have to test with that guy or can I request someone else?
3) I've been told by some people in my area that they failed the polygragh once and then re-took with another agency and passed. This is great but does the new agency refer back to your first polygraph? Because on half of the apps I mentioned the one agency but did not say anything that failed, and on the other half I didn't mention the agency at all. I'm scared it is going to hurt my chances,I'm not sure what to do. I don't want my career to be influenced by that one polygrapher, I will gladly tell you his name and the agency he works for. Everyone has told me that the way he conducted the test was 100% inappropiate.
4) On my applicaion I stated the 2 main jobs that I had, there was about 3 other jobs that I did not include because I was young and it was such a short period of time one was for 1 day and the other 2 were for about 3 weeks. Should I mention this to the new agencies? I did mention it one my one polygraph, that is why I wondering about the agencies being able to go back and get info? And if they do go back and judge on that then why do they even conduct there own polygraph?
5) On the backround portion I know they request your high school records, do they disqualify you if you had low grades in high school? And if so then what good are the TABE scores then? I did very vell on the TABE test? I have other qualities that I tihnk would be more important like a completly clean driving record, no criminal records, no civil court issues, high security clearance with my last job. If this is not enough then they are looking for supercops, I'm sure a lot of people applying for LE jobs have something minor and their backround and they sould not be penalized or denied employment(just my opinion).
6) Just wondering if the medical examination portion for Law Enforcemnet is as bad as the Military? I had wanted to go into the military but was denied because of flat feet, do law enforcement agencies check your backround like that or do they just examin you and make their own judgement?
7) Finally, I need civil service test help, any sites or books you can reccomend?
Sorry about the length of my message, but if there is anyone from Florida that would like to talk to me about the process e-mail me.
1) If I appeal the first polygraph, who do I address it to, the Chief of Police?
2) I applied for about 8 agencies in my area, when I took that awful polygragh with that guy he said that he would probably see me again. If I get sent back there do I have to test with that guy or can I request someone else?
3) I've been told by some people in my area that they failed the polygragh once and then re-took with another agency and passed. This is great but does the new agency refer back to your first polygraph? Because on half of the apps I mentioned the one agency but did not say anything that failed, and on the other half I didn't mention the agency at all. I'm scared it is going to hurt my chances,I'm not sure what to do. I don't want my career to be influenced by that one polygrapher, I will gladly tell you his name and the agency he works for. Everyone has told me that the way he conducted the test was 100% inappropiate.
4) On my applicaion I stated the 2 main jobs that I had, there was about 3 other jobs that I did not include because I was young and it was such a short period of time one was for 1 day and the other 2 were for about 3 weeks. Should I mention this to the new agencies? I did mention it one my one polygraph, that is why I wondering about the agencies being able to go back and get info? And if they do go back and judge on that then why do they even conduct there own polygraph?
5) On the backround portion I know they request your high school records, do they disqualify you if you had low grades in high school? And if so then what good are the TABE scores then? I did very vell on the TABE test? I have other qualities that I tihnk would be more important like a completly clean driving record, no criminal records, no civil court issues, high security clearance with my last job. If this is not enough then they are looking for supercops, I'm sure a lot of people applying for LE jobs have something minor and their backround and they sould not be penalized or denied employment(just my opinion).
6) Just wondering if the medical examination portion for Law Enforcemnet is as bad as the Military? I had wanted to go into the military but was denied because of flat feet, do law enforcement agencies check your backround like that or do they just examin you and make their own judgement?
7) Finally, I need civil service test help, any sites or books you can reccomend?
Sorry about the length of my message, but if there is anyone from Florida that would like to talk to me about the process e-mail me.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Feb 03, 2003, 07:57 AMTo answer your questions:
1) CVSA purports to detect lies through the measurement of "microtremors" in the human voice. Like the polygraph, it has no validity as a lie detector, and its real utility is as a prop for interrogating those who don't understand that it's junk science. For more on CVSA, read the message threads in the CVSA forum of this message board.
2) Doug Williams' manual, "How to Sting the Polygraph," does not address CVSA. If you want to learn more about polygraph "tests" (and how to pass them), you might wish to download AntiPolygraph.org's free book, The Lie Behind the Lie Detector before spending any money. The "behavioral countermeasures" described in Chapter 4 may be helpful in passing a CVSA "test."
3) I strongly recommend that you appeal the first agency's polygraph "test" results in writing, even though three months have passed. Some agencies will offer applicants a "re-test." At a minimum, your appeal will show that you did not simply accept the polygrapher's accusations.
In addition, the polygrapher's conduct that you have described seems particulary outrageous. If you would be interested in making a more detailed statement about your experience (naming the agency involved, and, perhaps, the polygrapher) for inclusion on AntiPolygraph.org's Personal Statements page, please send an e-mail to info@antipolygraph.org.
PS: Your posts to this message board will be easier on the eyes if you would turn off the caps lock.
1) CVSA purports to detect lies through the measurement of "microtremors" in the human voice. Like the polygraph, it has no validity as a lie detector, and its real utility is as a prop for interrogating those who don't understand that it's junk science. For more on CVSA, read the message threads in the CVSA forum of this message board.
2) Doug Williams' manual, "How to Sting the Polygraph," does not address CVSA. If you want to learn more about polygraph "tests" (and how to pass them), you might wish to download AntiPolygraph.org's free book, The Lie Behind the Lie Detector before spending any money. The "behavioral countermeasures" described in Chapter 4 may be helpful in passing a CVSA "test."
3) I strongly recommend that you appeal the first agency's polygraph "test" results in writing, even though three months have passed. Some agencies will offer applicants a "re-test." At a minimum, your appeal will show that you did not simply accept the polygrapher's accusations.
In addition, the polygrapher's conduct that you have described seems particulary outrageous. If you would be interested in making a more detailed statement about your experience (naming the agency involved, and, perhaps, the polygrapher) for inclusion on AntiPolygraph.org's Personal Statements page, please send an e-mail to info@antipolygraph.org.
PS: Your posts to this message board will be easier on the eyes if you would turn off the caps lock.
Posted by THE_NEW_HOT_CHICK
- Feb 03, 2003, 03:11 AMFIRST, I WILL SHARE MY STORY THEN ASK THE QUESTIONS.
I TURNED SEVERAL POLICE APPS ALL IN ONE WEEK AND WAS CALLED RIGHT A WAY BY MY NUBER ONE CHOICE. I INTERVIEWED THAT SAME WEEK AND DID SO WELL IN THE ORAL BOARD THAT THEY SAID THEY WANTED TO PROCESS ME RIGHT AWAY TO GET ME INTO THE ACADEMY THAT MONTH. I WAS SO HAPPY. THEY MADE MY POLYGRAPH APPOINTMENT THAT SAME DAY. LITTLE DID I KNOW ABOUT WHAT I WAS GOING TO BE IN FOR. WHEN I ARRIVED I FILLED OUT THE QUESTION SHEET WAITED AWHILE, FINALLY MET THE POLYGRAPHER AND THE INTERVIEW BEGAN. HE HAD SOMETHING NEGATIVE TO SAY ABOUT EVERYTHING I SAID, I WORKED FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE AND HE RESPONDED WITH THAT MANY PEOPLE IN THOSE POSTIONS SLIP THROUGH THE SYSTEM. HE KEPT ON ASKING IF I WAS A STRIPPER WHICH I'M NOT OR NEVER HAVE BEEN. HE SAID THAT HE HAS TESTED AND FAILED A FEMALE BEFORE ME THAT WAS A STRIPPER. WHEN HE PUT THE CORD AROUND MY CHEST HE SAID THAT ON THE MEN THE CORD FALLS AND ON MOST WOMEN IT DOESN'T. HE TOLD ME THAT EVERYONE WHO TAKES THESE TEST ARE IN DENIAL. THIS WAS ONLY PART OF THE TEST THERE IS SO MUCH MORE TO WRITE BUT I'M SURE EVERYONE GETS THE PICTURE. I WAS IN TOTAL SHOCK,I'VE NEVER EXPERIENCED ANYTHING LIKE THIS ,I THOUGHT I WOULD GO IN THERE TELL THE TRUTH AND MOVE ON TO THE NEXT TEST. I WAS CONFUSED THAT THE GUY HAD ME ADMITTING TO THINGS THAT DIDN'T EVEN APPLY TO ME SUCH AS TAKING PENS FROM WORK ETC.. THEN HE WOULD FOLLOW UP WITH HOW MUCH WOULD YOU HAVE TO PAY BACK IF YOU HAD TO RE-EMBERSE THE COMPANY ETC... I WENT BACK TO THE AGENCY TO SHARE MY EXPERIENCE THEY SAID THAT DIDN'T SOUND RIGHT SINCE I DID SO WELL ON THE ORAL INTERVIEW, THEY CONTACTED THE POLYGRAPHER AND CAME BACK WITH A COMPLETLY DIFFERENT ATTITUDE. I WAS SO UPSET, PEOPLE TOLD ME I CAN'T FIGHT THE SYSTEM SO I JUST DROPPED IT AND DECIDED TO WAIT FOR ANOTHER AGENCY TO CALL ME. OK HERE ARE MY QUESTIONS:
1) I HAVE ONE MORE CHANCE WITH A NEW AGENCY AND THEY GIVE THE CVSA. HOW DOES IT WORK? I PLAN TO TELL THE TRUTH AGAIN LIKE I DID ON THE POLYGRAPH, WHAT ARE THE CHANCES THAT I WILL FAIL AGAIN? I WAS PLANNING ON ORDERING THAT STING THING JUST TO READ UP ON IT, IS IT LEGIT, WILL IT HELP ME OR CONFUSE ME? IS THERE ANY WAY TO APPEAL THE FIRST ONE EVEN THOUGH 3 MONTHS HAVE PASSED? ON THE CVSA DO THEY ATTACH ANYTHING TO YOU? SORRY FOR MY LONG MESSAGE BUT ANY ANSWERS TO ANY OF MY QUESTIONS WOULD HELP.
I TURNED SEVERAL POLICE APPS ALL IN ONE WEEK AND WAS CALLED RIGHT A WAY BY MY NUBER ONE CHOICE. I INTERVIEWED THAT SAME WEEK AND DID SO WELL IN THE ORAL BOARD THAT THEY SAID THEY WANTED TO PROCESS ME RIGHT AWAY TO GET ME INTO THE ACADEMY THAT MONTH. I WAS SO HAPPY. THEY MADE MY POLYGRAPH APPOINTMENT THAT SAME DAY. LITTLE DID I KNOW ABOUT WHAT I WAS GOING TO BE IN FOR. WHEN I ARRIVED I FILLED OUT THE QUESTION SHEET WAITED AWHILE, FINALLY MET THE POLYGRAPHER AND THE INTERVIEW BEGAN. HE HAD SOMETHING NEGATIVE TO SAY ABOUT EVERYTHING I SAID, I WORKED FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE AND HE RESPONDED WITH THAT MANY PEOPLE IN THOSE POSTIONS SLIP THROUGH THE SYSTEM. HE KEPT ON ASKING IF I WAS A STRIPPER WHICH I'M NOT OR NEVER HAVE BEEN. HE SAID THAT HE HAS TESTED AND FAILED A FEMALE BEFORE ME THAT WAS A STRIPPER. WHEN HE PUT THE CORD AROUND MY CHEST HE SAID THAT ON THE MEN THE CORD FALLS AND ON MOST WOMEN IT DOESN'T. HE TOLD ME THAT EVERYONE WHO TAKES THESE TEST ARE IN DENIAL. THIS WAS ONLY PART OF THE TEST THERE IS SO MUCH MORE TO WRITE BUT I'M SURE EVERYONE GETS THE PICTURE. I WAS IN TOTAL SHOCK,I'VE NEVER EXPERIENCED ANYTHING LIKE THIS ,I THOUGHT I WOULD GO IN THERE TELL THE TRUTH AND MOVE ON TO THE NEXT TEST. I WAS CONFUSED THAT THE GUY HAD ME ADMITTING TO THINGS THAT DIDN'T EVEN APPLY TO ME SUCH AS TAKING PENS FROM WORK ETC.. THEN HE WOULD FOLLOW UP WITH HOW MUCH WOULD YOU HAVE TO PAY BACK IF YOU HAD TO RE-EMBERSE THE COMPANY ETC... I WENT BACK TO THE AGENCY TO SHARE MY EXPERIENCE THEY SAID THAT DIDN'T SOUND RIGHT SINCE I DID SO WELL ON THE ORAL INTERVIEW, THEY CONTACTED THE POLYGRAPHER AND CAME BACK WITH A COMPLETLY DIFFERENT ATTITUDE. I WAS SO UPSET, PEOPLE TOLD ME I CAN'T FIGHT THE SYSTEM SO I JUST DROPPED IT AND DECIDED TO WAIT FOR ANOTHER AGENCY TO CALL ME. OK HERE ARE MY QUESTIONS:
1) I HAVE ONE MORE CHANCE WITH A NEW AGENCY AND THEY GIVE THE CVSA. HOW DOES IT WORK? I PLAN TO TELL THE TRUTH AGAIN LIKE I DID ON THE POLYGRAPH, WHAT ARE THE CHANCES THAT I WILL FAIL AGAIN? I WAS PLANNING ON ORDERING THAT STING THING JUST TO READ UP ON IT, IS IT LEGIT, WILL IT HELP ME OR CONFUSE ME? IS THERE ANY WAY TO APPEAL THE FIRST ONE EVEN THOUGH 3 MONTHS HAVE PASSED? ON THE CVSA DO THEY ATTACH ANYTHING TO YOU? SORRY FOR MY LONG MESSAGE BUT ANY ANSWERS TO ANY OF MY QUESTIONS WOULD HELP.