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Posted by George W. Maschke
- Apr 13, 2022, 04:24 AMMisty,
I don't know for sure whether the Texas Department of Pubic Safety has a formal appeal process for applicants who wrongly fail the polygraph, though most agencies don't.
What your son can do is to write to the person who signs the rejection letter, succinctly state that he told the truth on the polygraph (without offering any rationales for why he might not have passed), and to request a re-test.
His request for a re-test may or may not be entertained, but at minimum, it will document the fact that he didn't (through silence) tacitly accept the polygraph operator's accusation that he lied.
I don't know for sure whether the Texas Department of Pubic Safety has a formal appeal process for applicants who wrongly fail the polygraph, though most agencies don't.
What your son can do is to write to the person who signs the rejection letter, succinctly state that he told the truth on the polygraph (without offering any rationales for why he might not have passed), and to request a re-test.
His request for a re-test may or may not be entertained, but at minimum, it will document the fact that he didn't (through silence) tacitly accept the polygraph operator's accusation that he lied.
Posted by Misty Pyatt
- Apr 12, 2022, 11:13 AMMy son failed his polygraph exam yesterday with TXDPS. He was told he was deceptive in all areas. My son was dumbfounded and kept telling the examiner he did not know why he failed. He never changed his responses. He asked the examiner why he would of failed and the examiner told him well only you know that. You are very deceptive and possibly a criminal. He is 21 years of age about to graduate college with over a 4.0 GPA. He has college paid for on a full scholarship. He has never been in any type of trouble. If you know him you would completely understand why everyone is puzzled. He has done internships at the local police department and did an internship with TXDPS just recently. He has numerous recommendations letters, etc. I know some of you will say because I am his mother I am biased. I do love my child but his father and I have never given anything to him that he did not earn. His exam started at 11:00 a.m. and he did not walk out of the testing site until 6:00 p.m. He was told by the examiner that if I were you I would not apply to any federal jobs because this polygraph will follow you. He told him that he was lying about being fired from a job. He has never been fired from any job and my son told him you can look at his employment records. He told him that he committed a sex crime, he lied about drugs, and lied about committing a crime against a person or property. At the end of the exam he told him he was sending the exam in for a review but to expect a decline letter. How do we appeal this? Can he take another test?
Posted by xenonman
- Apr 19, 2017, 02:21 AMQuoteI heard somewhere that failing an FBI polygraph doesn't preclude employment with the CIA.
That is one area where it helps that the CIA is such a law unto itself when it comes to employment matters, as well as everything else. Since they operate in their own world, applications made at other agencies will likely have little impact.
Of course, as I suggested previously, it will be very helpful for you to file PA/FOIA requests, and see if factors other than the polygraph may have derailed your internship.
Posted by Io
- Apr 18, 2017, 01:59 PMI wouldn't bother appealing.
I suppose it may, possibly, be a good idea to have it on record that you disagree with the results of the polygraph (depending on what they "dinged" you for--I will take a wild guess and assume it was supposed former drug use).
The appeal is simply a formality--they certainly won't let you retake it, after all this time, and the "results," as read by the FBI, would be exactly the same, even if you did take another one. It is entirely in their interest to pretend that this method is consistent and results are repeatable. If they claimed you failed the first time, do you really want two "failed" polygraphs on your record?
Sorry to be pessimistic here, but this is how the FBI operates. The polygraph is simply a way to create jobs for incompetents who would not otherwise have them (the operators).
Your best bet is to file a FOIA to find out what other government agencies would have access to your polygraph results. You won't get a straight answer from the FBI without a FOIA. You may not get a straight answer with a FOIA. Hey ho.
I heard somewhere that failing an FBI polygraph doesn't preclude employment with the CIA.
But, like everything involving polygraphs, I'm sure this varies entirely on a case to case basis. If you have particular skill that is in demand, your polygraph will magically show that you are telling the truth.
If I were you, I'd forget it, don't appeal, and move forward with whatever other agency you're trying for (though I don't know why you'd want to take another polygraph, knowing what they are.) You'll find out soon enough if they have access to the FBI record on you. If not, don't make waves. The government can be astoundingly incompetent--left hand doesn't know what the right is doing.
I suppose it may, possibly, be a good idea to have it on record that you disagree with the results of the polygraph (depending on what they "dinged" you for--I will take a wild guess and assume it was supposed former drug use).
The appeal is simply a formality--they certainly won't let you retake it, after all this time, and the "results," as read by the FBI, would be exactly the same, even if you did take another one. It is entirely in their interest to pretend that this method is consistent and results are repeatable. If they claimed you failed the first time, do you really want two "failed" polygraphs on your record?
Sorry to be pessimistic here, but this is how the FBI operates. The polygraph is simply a way to create jobs for incompetents who would not otherwise have them (the operators).
Your best bet is to file a FOIA to find out what other government agencies would have access to your polygraph results. You won't get a straight answer from the FBI without a FOIA. You may not get a straight answer with a FOIA. Hey ho.
I heard somewhere that failing an FBI polygraph doesn't preclude employment with the CIA.
But, like everything involving polygraphs, I'm sure this varies entirely on a case to case basis. If you have particular skill that is in demand, your polygraph will magically show that you are telling the truth.
If I were you, I'd forget it, don't appeal, and move forward with whatever other agency you're trying for (though I don't know why you'd want to take another polygraph, knowing what they are.) You'll find out soon enough if they have access to the FBI record on you. If not, don't make waves. The government can be astoundingly incompetent--left hand doesn't know what the right is doing.
Posted by Wandersmann
- Apr 13, 2017, 11:59 PMQuoteQuote from: xenonman on Apr 11, 2017, 03:39 AMI don't know if that's also the case with the FBI. Although there are theoretical channels of appealing an adverse personnel decision , you'd probably just be wasting your time.The internship was mandatory, yes, but I don't remember much else because of how much time has passed. Can you tell me where to find these theoretical channels, if it's possible at all? I don't suppose I can file a lawsuit for malpractice, or is there something similar?
I'm assuming that the polygraph was mandatory for the internship for which you applied, and that the Bureau had you sign a statement to that effect before you were polygraphed.
Forget the lawsuit unless you have a relative or close friend that is an attorney. I spoke with an attorney specializing in these matters after I had my problem with the poly. Having lost my livelihood the attorney told be I needed to come up with some major five figure initial payment to file suit and be prepared to spend several hundred thousand to see it through. :-? I'll bet you thought they were serious when you had to say the pledge of allegiance that ends in, with liberty and justice for all. IT used to be but is no longer. It should be changed to with liberty and justice for all who can afford it.
Posted by xenonman
- Apr 13, 2017, 11:16 AMQuote from: George_Maschke on Apr 13, 2017, 03:48 AMWhat you can do at this point is to file a Privacy Act request with the FBI for all records pertaining to you.
This is an excellent idea. The info. obtained as a result of such a request will prove particularly informative if a background check (BI) was also conducted on you. It may be that, in your case, the BI was actually more problematic than the polygraph. You can learn a lot from the BI report. There may be more persons out there that dislike you than you might have expected, or individuals that were interviewed during the BI and provided derogatory info. about you, whom you in fact barely knew! Fortunately for you, the FBI will include polygraph results in response to PA requests, whereas the CIA refuses to do so.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Apr 13, 2017, 03:48 AMQuoteSo how can I appeal the polygraph and retake it?
Unfortunately, there is no appeal process for applicants who "fail" federal pre-employment polygraph "tests."
What you can do at this point is to file a Privacy Act request with the FBI for all records pertaining to you. You'll want to know what, if any, admissions your polygraph operator may have attributed to you. Polygraphers have an incentive to inflate or even fabricate admissions, because they are rated based on their post-test admission/confession rates.
Posted by xenonman
- Apr 12, 2017, 11:27 PMQuoteAlso thanks for the jokes - you guys are funny =D
It's important to keep a sense of humor, in the face of adversaries who have none!
Posted by xenonman
- Apr 12, 2017, 11:23 PMQuoteCan you tell me where to find these theoretical channels, if it's possible at all? I don't suppose I can file a lawsuit for malpractice, or is there something similar?
There must be some internal mechanism for appealing adverse personnel actions. I'd suggest looking at the Bureau website as a start.
To the best of my knowledge, most federal courts have tended to allow the "three-letter" agencies pretty much full autonomy as far as their personnel policies and actions are concerned.
Posted by FBI Applicant
- Apr 12, 2017, 12:47 AMAlso thanks for the jokes - you guys are funny =D
Posted by FBI Applicant
- Apr 12, 2017, 12:46 AMQuote from: xenonman on Apr 11, 2017, 03:39 AMI don't know if that's also the case with the FBI. Although there are theoretical channels of appealing an adverse personnel decision , you'd probably just be wasting your time.The internship was mandatory, yes, but I don't remember much else because of how much time has passed. Can you tell me where to find these theoretical channels, if it's possible at all? I don't suppose I can file a lawsuit for malpractice, or is there something similar?
I'm assuming that the polygraph was mandatory for the internship for which you applied, and that the Bureau had you sign a statement to that effect before you were polygraphed.
Posted by xenonman
- Apr 11, 2017, 03:45 AMQuoteOr maybe I should say I feel like I went to a doctor for an appendectomy and they did a lobotomy by mistake.
It could have been worse -- you might have been given a penectomy by mistake!
Posted by xenonman
- Apr 11, 2017, 03:43 AMQuote from: Wandersmann on Apr 10, 2017, 09:57 PMNo, if they gave you a lobotomy you would be a high ranking FBI official by now.
...or maybe CIA Station Chief in Havana?
Posted by xenonman
- Apr 11, 2017, 03:39 AMQuoteHello! I applied for an FBI internship a few years ago, but failed the polygraph and didn't get the job.
I had, as many readers know already, a similar problem with a summer "intern" program at the CIA. Fortunately, the CIA is so much of a law unto itself, that not being hired there will have no effect whatever on employment at other federal agencies.
I don't know if that's also the case with the FBI. Although there are theoretical channels of appealing an adverse personnel decision , you'd probably just be wasting your time.
I'm assuming that the polygraph was mandatory for the internship for which you applied, and that the Bureau had you sign a statement to that effect before you were polygraphed.
Posted by Wandersmann
- Apr 10, 2017, 09:57 PMQuoteOr maybe I should say I feel like I went to a doctor for an appendectomy and they did a lobotomy by mistake.
No, if they gave you a lobotomy you would be a high ranking FBI official by now.