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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by Dan Mangan
- Sep 20, 2017, 09:00 AMQuote from: AuntyAgony on Sep 20, 2017, 07:56 AMAre you trying to out GuestGhost?
Of course not, Aunty. I am shocked, appalled and dismayed that you would even suggest such a thing.
Posted by Aunty Agony
- Sep 20, 2017, 07:56 AMPosted by Dan Mangan
- Sep 19, 2017, 10:00 PMGuestGhost, I pegged you as a faker because you failed to convey your polygraph experiences with any realism.
I stand by my original assessment.
Prove me wrong and I'll donate $500 to a legitimate charity of your choice.
I stand by my original assessment.
Prove me wrong and I'll donate $500 to a legitimate charity of your choice.
Posted by GuestGhost
- Sep 19, 2017, 06:17 PMQuote from: danmangan on Sep 17, 2017, 08:29 AMQuote from: AuntyAgony on Sep 17, 2017, 01:07 AMDan Mangan wrote Today at 2:46am:
Insulted? No, Aunty, that faker was likely found out.
Possibly. But you offer no evidence for this.
Dan Mangan wrote Today at 2:46am:
GuestGhost's account was, in my professional opinion, pure mental masturbation.
Possibly. But you offer no evidence or convincing argument for this.
Aunty, should GuestGhost return and post clear and compelling evidence that contradicts my opinions -- beginning by answering the questions I posted earlier -- I will admit my rush to judgment and sincerely apologize.
Mr. Mangan,
My goal in posting was not for you to believe or not believe me. I wasn't looking for pats on the back or validation. It is unlikely but sure possible that if I go into further detail, I could reveal something that would identify me.
In the meantime maybe we can be constructive. Please discuss which one(s) of my countermeasure and preparation descriptions are bad or wrong and why you think I am a plant or faker.
Your own website says the polygraph can be beaten and you even link to this site. This site and TLBTLD was where I learned everything I used. Yet I say that and you immediately call me a liar.
Anyway I guess we won't convince each other but that's what I've got to say.
Posted by Doug Williams
- Sep 18, 2017, 12:21 PMQuote from: danmangan on Sep 16, 2017, 10:46 PM
That said, polygraph countermeasure victories are probably at record levels these days -- thanks to the government's most public and vigorous prosecution of Doug Williams.
Beating a polygraph "test" is relatively easy, once you know the trick.
To believe otherwise is abject denial.
Well said Dan – it should be noted that they prosecuted me for doing something that they had previously said was impossible for me to do - teach someone how to "beat" the "lie detector". And, I have always maintained that if I can teach a person to "beat" it, that proves the polygraph is absolutely worthless as a "lie detector".
Posted by Dan Mangan
- Sep 17, 2017, 08:29 AMQuote from: AuntyAgony on Sep 17, 2017, 01:07 AMDan Mangan wrote Today at 2:46am:
Insulted? No, Aunty, that faker was likely found out.
Possibly. But you offer no evidence for this.
Dan Mangan wrote Today at 2:46am:
GuestGhost's account was, in my professional opinion, pure mental masturbation.
Possibly. But you offer no evidence or convincing argument for this.
Aunty, should GuestGhost return and post clear and compelling evidence that contradicts my opinions -- beginning by answering the questions I posted earlier -- I will admit my rush to judgment and sincerely apologize.
Posted by Aunty Agony
- Sep 17, 2017, 01:07 AMQuote from: danmangan on Sep 16, 2017, 10:46 PMInsulted? No, Aunty, that faker was likely found out.Possibly. But you offer no evidence for this.
Quote from: danmangan on Sep 16, 2017, 10:46 PMGuestGhost's account was, in my professional opinion, pure mental masturbation.Possibly. But you offer no evidence or convincing argument for this.
Posted by Dan Mangan
- Sep 16, 2017, 10:46 PMInsulted? No, Aunty, that faker was likely found out.
GuestGhost's account was, in my professional opinion, pure mental masturbation.
That said, polygraph countermeasure victories are probably at record levels these days -- thanks to the government's most public and vigorous prosecution of Doug Williams.
Beating a polygraph "test" is relatively easy, once you know the trick.
To believe otherwise is abject denial.
GuestGhost's account was, in my professional opinion, pure mental masturbation.
That said, polygraph countermeasure victories are probably at record levels these days -- thanks to the government's most public and vigorous prosecution of Doug Williams.
Beating a polygraph "test" is relatively easy, once you know the trick.
To believe otherwise is abject denial.
Posted by Aunty Agony
- Sep 16, 2017, 10:18 PMQuote from: pailryder on Sep 16, 2017, 10:38 AMSeems you spooked GuestGhost.I think "insulted" is much more accurate than "spooked". If I ever submitted a post like GuestGhost's and all I got was a reaction like Dan's, I would simply not bother with the site any more, much less enter into a productive correspondence.
Posted by pailryder
- Sep 16, 2017, 10:38 AMDan
Seems you spooked GuestGhost.
Seems you spooked GuestGhost.
Posted by Dan Mangan
- Sep 13, 2017, 08:23 PMQuoteAnd at the end of the test, the polygrapher stood up, and matter-of-factly told me I had passed.
Speaking as a polygraph operator with over 13 years of experience, this highly unlikely scenario strikes me as pure fiction.
Maybe GuestGhost will prove me wrong.
ROTFLMAO
Posted by Dan Mangan
- Sep 12, 2017, 02:23 PMGG, how did the examiners introduce the CQs to you during their respective pre-test portions of each polygraph? Tell us what the examiners said and how they described the role of the CQs vis-a-vis the RQs.
Describe the stimulation tests used for the two different polygraphs, and how they differed between examiners.
How many charts were used for each exam?
Did the examiners score manually or use an algorithm?
Describe the stimulation tests used for the two different polygraphs, and how they differed between examiners.
How many charts were used for each exam?
Did the examiners score manually or use an algorithm?
Posted by GuestGhost
- Sep 12, 2017, 01:34 PMMr. Mangan, I am not sure what part of my post seems to you to be a troll/plant/fake. I would be interested if you could point out where my descriptions and tactics differ from what TLBTLD recommends.
I simply wished to share my experience, and let people know that TLBTLD is excellent. I also wanted people to know that countermeasures aren't easy, and take practice.
I will not be posting the control questions, out of an abundance of caution. If that causes you to not believe me then I guess I will just have to be ok with that.
A few notes, though:
- These tests were single/very related issue tests. Again, there are only so many formats for such tests, and with good research, literature and information on those formats can be found. Being able to memorize those formats, and being right about the formats made the tests much easier. If I did not know what the next type of question would be, I donnot know if I could have properly geared myself mentally for countermeasures or relaxation. Part of my confidence and abilities to pass these tests came from knowing exactly what was coming when.
If this had been an FBI employment type test, I donnot know if this type of preparation would have worked, nor would I have been as confident, as those are not single issue tests.
- I cannot say enough about how important my practice was. Although it may be extremely difficult to detect some physical countermeasures, it seems actually impossible to detect mental ones. Being able to produce physical reactions based solely on mental stimulus was not easy but it was essential.
- Aunty, I understand your disappointment. Of course I cannot go further into detail and certainly there is no way to verify this, but I had no "nefarious purposes" in the lies I had to tell.
I simply wished to share my experience, and let people know that TLBTLD is excellent. I also wanted people to know that countermeasures aren't easy, and take practice.
I will not be posting the control questions, out of an abundance of caution. If that causes you to not believe me then I guess I will just have to be ok with that.
A few notes, though:
- These tests were single/very related issue tests. Again, there are only so many formats for such tests, and with good research, literature and information on those formats can be found. Being able to memorize those formats, and being right about the formats made the tests much easier. If I did not know what the next type of question would be, I donnot know if I could have properly geared myself mentally for countermeasures or relaxation. Part of my confidence and abilities to pass these tests came from knowing exactly what was coming when.
If this had been an FBI employment type test, I donnot know if this type of preparation would have worked, nor would I have been as confident, as those are not single issue tests.
- I cannot say enough about how important my practice was. Although it may be extremely difficult to detect some physical countermeasures, it seems actually impossible to detect mental ones. Being able to produce physical reactions based solely on mental stimulus was not easy but it was essential.
- Aunty, I understand your disappointment. Of course I cannot go further into detail and certainly there is no way to verify this, but I had no "nefarious purposes" in the lies I had to tell.
Posted by Dan Mangan
- Sep 12, 2017, 09:23 AMQuote from: George_Maschke on Sep 12, 2017, 01:16 AMGuestGhost does not come across as a troll, plant, or faker to me. If his/her statement is indeed sincere, I think that for privacy reasons, it would be unwise for him/her to divulge the relevant questions asked.
To me, GuestGhost's post lacks a certain something -- it just doesn't ring true. Maybe GG will post the CQs that were allegedly asked in this account of multiple mandatory polygraphs taking place over a 30-day period.
Posted by Aunty Agony
- Sep 12, 2017, 08:49 AMQuote...I had to lie on one of them.This make Aunty sad. It is an example of how a socially valuable tool or technique can also be used for nefarious purposes.