- Welcome to AntiPolygraph.org Message Board.
A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by guest
- Aug 28, 2002, 04:59 AMIt is ironic that AZ newspapers are always bemoaning the shortage of police candidates -- but the poly process continues to thwart those who apply! Can you provide a little more detail as to what your poly was like, etc.?
Posted by Skeptic
- Aug 27, 2002, 08:32 PMQuote from: beech trees on Aug 26, 2002, 10:48 AM
Welcome. In theory, a polygrapher may make only one of three conclusions: No Deception Indicated, Deception Indicated, or Inconclusive. 'Unresolved Issues' cannot be a formal conclusion, although a polygrapher may either bluff you with such a statement (in the hopes of eliciting a damaging admission) or make such a statement during a string of chart runs if they see physiological reactions which are of greater magnitude in your Relevant Questions than your Control Questions.
Can you further explain what happened? Did this accusation of 'unresolved issues' come up during the chart runs, or after? Also, after your responses (taking prescription med, theft victim), was another chart taken?
Dave
Why is it that, so often, polygraph terminology (such as "unresolved issues") sounds a lot like that used by telephone psychics and astrologers?
At least it seems more and more that polygraphers are abandoning the illusion of "lie detection".
Skeptic
Posted by beech trees
- Aug 26, 2002, 10:48 AMQuote from: shellshock on Aug 26, 2002, 06:31 AMhello all,
need a little bit of help.
I recently took the polygraph test in arizona and my results ,as stated by the examiner, came back as "unresolved issues" on the drug use and theft. When asked why I had any issues with the drug use, which I didn't feel I had, I responded that I am currently taking a prescription of adderrall and it might be construed as a methamphetamine. The examiner said I was misinformed about the medication. When asked about the theft, I reiterated that my checkbook was stolen in 95 and many forged checks were written against my account by someone. don't know who, it was stolen! Anyway, I was told to write a letter to my background investigator as to why I had unresolved issues.
Is there any hope for me to go through the rest of the selection process. What exactly is unresolved issues and what can I do about this? Will I be given another chance, or does this mean I failed the polygraph?
Welcome. In theory, a polygrapher may make only one of three conclusions: No Deception Indicated, Deception Indicated, or Inconclusive. 'Unresolved Issues' cannot be a formal conclusion, although a polygrapher may either bluff you with such a statement (in the hopes of eliciting a damaging admission) or make such a statement during a string of chart runs if they see physiological reactions which are of greater magnitude in your Relevant Questions than your Control Questions.
Can you further explain what happened? Did this accusation of 'unresolved issues' come up during the chart runs, or after? Also, after your responses (taking prescription med, theft victim), was another chart taken?
Dave
Posted by shellshock
- Aug 26, 2002, 06:31 AMhello all,
need a little bit of help.
I recently took the polygraph test in arizona and my results ,as stated by the examiner, came back as "unresolved issues" on the drug use and theft. When asked why I had any issues with the drug use, which I didn't feel I had, I responded that I am currently taking a prescription of adderrall and it might be construed as a methamphetamine. The examiner said I was misinformed about the medication. When asked about the theft, I reiterated that my checkbook was stolen in 95 and many forged checks were written against my account by someone. don't know who, it was stolen! Anyway, I was told to write a letter to my background investigator as to why I had unresolved issues.
Is there any hope for me to go through the rest of the selection process. What exactly is unresolved issues and what can I do about this? Will I be given another chance, or does this mean I failed the polygraph?
Please help!!!!!!
Posted by jhr
- Aug 25, 2002, 01:41 AMI interviewed with the CIA, which was, by and large, an okay experience. I was, however, disgusted with the CIA's reliance on polygraph exams and similar cr*p.
The guy who administered the exam (I don't remember his name, unfortunately) introduced himself as a US Army interrogation expert. I should have taken that as a hint.
For the record, I think that "lie detectors" and whatnot should be declared unconstitutional.
I am disgusted by the entire practice, and I think that it's a black eye on Uncle Sam's face. I will, in principle, never again apply for any position requiring any such exam.
I have a master's degree in English, and my thesis is called "Skinhead." Thus, the Army yahoo accused me of being a skinhead racist.
He also accused me of circulating cocaine.
I have smoked marijuana, but I have never sold anything to anyone--certainly not cocaine.
This CIA guy, however, is apparently paid to intimidate people like me into false memories and confessions, and he uses a polygraph machine along the way.
The guy who administered the exam (I don't remember his name, unfortunately) introduced himself as a US Army interrogation expert. I should have taken that as a hint.
For the record, I think that "lie detectors" and whatnot should be declared unconstitutional.
I am disgusted by the entire practice, and I think that it's a black eye on Uncle Sam's face. I will, in principle, never again apply for any position requiring any such exam.
I have a master's degree in English, and my thesis is called "Skinhead." Thus, the Army yahoo accused me of being a skinhead racist.
He also accused me of circulating cocaine.
I have smoked marijuana, but I have never sold anything to anyone--certainly not cocaine.
This CIA guy, however, is apparently paid to intimidate people like me into false memories and confessions, and he uses a polygraph machine along the way.
Posted by Outblaze
- Aug 23, 2002, 10:55 PMS,
Thank you for relating your experience with the NSA poly. I wish I had knew about the booklet they promote here before taking my poly with them. Maybe I would have had a fighting chance. But then, I never doubted I was going to have a problem since I've always been truthful and cooperative and had passed three previous CI polys, the most recent in the late 90s.
Anyway, I have the chance to serve with NSA again through my current association with the Government (either through an upcoming tour or one further down the road). I'm just not sure if or how it may jeopardize this current job if I'm rejected again by the NSA polygraphers. Whatever the results, I'll let you know---and If my current employer yanks my clearance and puts me out on the street because of this, I'll probably have no way to fight it
Thank you for relating your experience with the NSA poly. I wish I had knew about the booklet they promote here before taking my poly with them. Maybe I would have had a fighting chance. But then, I never doubted I was going to have a problem since I've always been truthful and cooperative and had passed three previous CI polys, the most recent in the late 90s.
Anyway, I have the chance to serve with NSA again through my current association with the Government (either through an upcoming tour or one further down the road). I'm just not sure if or how it may jeopardize this current job if I'm rejected again by the NSA polygraphers. Whatever the results, I'll let you know---and If my current employer yanks my clearance and puts me out on the street because of this, I'll probably have no way to fight it
Posted by PROAc
- Aug 20, 2002, 01:46 AM<<Once Hatfill had failed the polygraph, another U.S. official said, the CIA informed the Defense Security Service, which regulates security clearances. As a result, Hatfill was stripped of all of his security clearances. Science Applications gave Hatfill six months to regain his security clearance; when he failed to do so, he was dismissed.>>
In other words, anyone with a DOD security clearance who failed the CIA polygraph will be notified to DSS? I was told DSS had a hard time getting informations from the CIA if an applicant worked for the CIA before.
Thus, if you failed a CIA polygraph or admit something before the CIA polygraph, CIA will notify DSS? If a CIA worker failed the DOD polygraph, will DSS notify the CIA vice versa?
What happened if you are still int he appeal pipeline (which take forever?
That means everyone better start looking for a job (jobs/careers/works not requiring a clearance...)
In other words, anyone with a DOD security clearance who failed the CIA polygraph will be notified to DSS? I was told DSS had a hard time getting informations from the CIA if an applicant worked for the CIA before.
Thus, if you failed a CIA polygraph or admit something before the CIA polygraph, CIA will notify DSS? If a CIA worker failed the DOD polygraph, will DSS notify the CIA vice versa?
What happened if you are still int he appeal pipeline (which take forever?
That means everyone better start looking for a job (jobs/careers/works not requiring a clearance...)
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Aug 18, 2002, 04:48 AMOutblaze,
I'm sorry to read of your unhappy polygraph experience with the NSA. It's one that many others have shared. (See, for example, the statement of Nate B.)
I cannot know what consequences failing to pass an NSA polygraph "test" would have on your current employment, but the experience of virologist Steven J. Hatfill (which began before he became a "person of interest" in the anthrax investigation) is perhaps instructive, even though it involves the CIA and not NSA. The following is from a recent MSNBC.com report:
I'm sorry to read of your unhappy polygraph experience with the NSA. It's one that many others have shared. (See, for example, the statement of Nate B.)
I cannot know what consequences failing to pass an NSA polygraph "test" would have on your current employment, but the experience of virologist Steven J. Hatfill (which began before he became a "person of interest" in the anthrax investigation) is perhaps instructive, even though it involves the CIA and not NSA. The following is from a recent MSNBC.com report:
Quote...U.S. officials indicated Tuesday that Hatfill...was fired because he failed the CIA polygraph in August 2001.
One of the officials told NBC News that the polygraph was administered because Hatfill needed to upgrade his security clearance to work on a CIA counterterrorism contract awarded to Science Applications.
Once Hatfill had failed the polygraph, another U.S. official said, the CIA informed the Defense Security Service, which regulates security clearances. As a result, Hatfill was stripped of all of his security clearances. Science Applications gave Hatfill six months to regain his security clearance; when he failed to do so, he was dismissed.
Posted by Outblaze
- Aug 18, 2002, 12:31 AMI'm currently working as a civilian Intelligence Analyst with a government agency. Several years ago, I retired after 20 years of active duty with the military as an Intelligence Analyst---about 17 of those years spent at the NSA or one of their field sites.
Prior to my three rotations to the NSA from field sites in the 80s and 90s, I was required to undergo a Counter-Intelligence (CI) polygraph. All three were conducted on military installations by a military examiner. On all three exams I was always truthful and cooperative. I was "approved" and allowed access to the Ft. Meade complex for the three assignments.
Prior to my retirement from the military and during my last tour with the agency, I applied for a civilian job with the NSA (with my supervisor's support and encouragement). In a nine-month period, I was administered five lifestyle/CI polygraph exams by the NSA at their processing center, FANX-1 in Linthicum, MD (It was through the lobbying efforts of my supervisor and my NSA Division Chief that I was allowed this many exams). As before, on each exam I was truthful and cooperative in answering all the examiner's questions. However, during the exams I was told I was "reacting" to a question on "illegal drug use within the past 5 years" and/or "illegal foreign contact". Half way through exam number 5, I decided that I had had enough and during a break, left the facility. Several weeks later, I received the NSA non-acceptance letter.
Now, the government agency I work for is planning to implement a liaison position with the NSA. They know of my experience and education with the NSA and have asked me if I'm interested in the position (they have no knowledge of the prior polygraphs). I feel I'm in a dilemma. I would very much like to return since I enjoyed the job very much and still have many friends, co-workers and supervisors who know of my work ethic, skills and abilities and would like to see me back. However, to accept this position, I would have to submit to the mental and emotional hell of the polygraph again.
My primary concern is if I accept the position, and the NSA polygraphists still feel I'm being deceptive and send me packing, how or will it affect my current job with the government? Or will NSA even entertain the request from my current employer since it's only been two years, and I'm assuming they probably still have my 5 inch folder with the prior charts/assessments?
I really don't know what to do? I've been completely open and honest during all the exams and that evidently doesn't work. And I'm afraid that if I try the counter-techniques, I'll only get an inconclusive and get sent packing anyway
Prior to my three rotations to the NSA from field sites in the 80s and 90s, I was required to undergo a Counter-Intelligence (CI) polygraph. All three were conducted on military installations by a military examiner. On all three exams I was always truthful and cooperative. I was "approved" and allowed access to the Ft. Meade complex for the three assignments.
Prior to my retirement from the military and during my last tour with the agency, I applied for a civilian job with the NSA (with my supervisor's support and encouragement). In a nine-month period, I was administered five lifestyle/CI polygraph exams by the NSA at their processing center, FANX-1 in Linthicum, MD (It was through the lobbying efforts of my supervisor and my NSA Division Chief that I was allowed this many exams). As before, on each exam I was truthful and cooperative in answering all the examiner's questions. However, during the exams I was told I was "reacting" to a question on "illegal drug use within the past 5 years" and/or "illegal foreign contact". Half way through exam number 5, I decided that I had had enough and during a break, left the facility. Several weeks later, I received the NSA non-acceptance letter.
Now, the government agency I work for is planning to implement a liaison position with the NSA. They know of my experience and education with the NSA and have asked me if I'm interested in the position (they have no knowledge of the prior polygraphs). I feel I'm in a dilemma. I would very much like to return since I enjoyed the job very much and still have many friends, co-workers and supervisors who know of my work ethic, skills and abilities and would like to see me back. However, to accept this position, I would have to submit to the mental and emotional hell of the polygraph again.
My primary concern is if I accept the position, and the NSA polygraphists still feel I'm being deceptive and send me packing, how or will it affect my current job with the government? Or will NSA even entertain the request from my current employer since it's only been two years, and I'm assuming they probably still have my 5 inch folder with the prior charts/assessments?
I really don't know what to do? I've been completely open and honest during all the exams and that evidently doesn't work. And I'm afraid that if I try the counter-techniques, I'll only get an inconclusive and get sent packing anyway