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A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by beech trees
- Aug 23, 2002, 03:17 PMQuote from: Skeptic on Aug 23, 2002, 01:23 PM
I can tell we'd be on opposite sides in a debate over the origins of rights and what the Constitution does and doesn't do, Daveand I don't think this would be the place for such a ranging debate, anyway.
Regardless, I think we're in absolute agreement that polygraphy runs afoul of a number of Constitutional principles. It truly is hard to believe that the Government thinks it a good way to protect those principles.
Hi Skep,
I'm glad we can at least partially agree. You and I see eye-to-eye on quite a number of things I think.
For matters Constitutional, I often refer to what I consider to be the most brilliant commentaries on the origins, history, and interpretation of our nation's founding documents, that being Tucker's Blackstone. As I'm sure you know, the quintessential commentary on English Common Law was Blackstone's Commentaries, which were adapted to our representative republic by St. George Tucker, a luminary in the fields of law, teaching, and commentary. Tucker's comments provide a number of insights into the consensus for interpretation of the Constitution that prevailed shortly after its ratification, after the debates had settled down and the Constitution was put into practice. Several passages in particular support the widely-held view that the power should and does reside in the hands of The People, and that the Constitution does not bequeath such power, but rather limits government intrusion upon it:
In governments whose original foundations cannot be traced to the certain and undeniable criterion of an original written compact .... whose forms as well as principles are subject to perpetual variation from the usurpations of the strong, or the concessions of the weak; where tradition supplies the place of written evidence; where every new construction is in fact a new edict; and where the fountain of power hath been immemorially transferred from the people, to the usurpers of their natural rights, our author's reasoning on this subject will not easily be controverted .... But the American revolution has formed a new epoch in the history of civil institutions, by reducing to practice, what, before, had been supposed to exist only in the visionary speculations of theoretical writers .... The world, for the first time since the annals of its inhabitants began, saw an original written compact formed by the free and deliberate voices of individuals disposed to unite in the same social bonds; thus exhibiting a political phenomenon unknown to former ages. This memorable precedent was soon followed by the far greater number of the states in the union, and led the way to that instrument, by which the union of the confederated states has since been completed, and in which, as we shall hereafter endeavour to shew, the sovereignty of the people, and the responsibility of their servants are principles fundamentally, and unequivocally, established; in which the powers of the several branches of government are defined, and the excess of them, as well in the legislature, as in the other branches, finds limits, which cannot be transgressed without offending against that greater power from whom all authority, among us, is derived; to wit, the PEOPLE...
...Here then we must resort to a distinction which the institution and nature of our government has introduced into the western hemisphere; which, however, can only obtain in governments where power is not usurped but delegated, and where authority is a trust and not a right .... nor can it ever be truly ascertained where there is not a written constitution to resort to. A distinction, nevertheless, which certainly does exist between the indefinite and unlimited power of the people, in whom the sovereignty of these states, ultimately, substantially, and unquestionably resides, and the definite powers of the congress and state legislatures, which are severally limited to certain and determinate objects, being no more than emanations from the former, where, and where only, that legislative essence which constitutes sovereignty can be found.--APPENDIX TO VOLUME FIRST. PART FIRST OF BLACKSTONE'S COMMENTARIES. (NOTE A)
I'd be curious what your views are on the subject; perhaps we can continue over on the 'non polygraph related' board.
Sincerely,
Dave
Posted by Skeptic
- Aug 23, 2002, 01:23 PMQuote from: beech trees on Aug 23, 2002, 11:06 AM
Surfer,
You're correct in your impression that there are more than several applications in which The Travesty Known as Polygraphy is employed that infringes upon or outright tramples upon one's Constitutionally protected rights. A small note about the semantics of your sentence: The Constitution does not empower the People; The People's inalienable rights predate the Constitution and are given to us by God ("We hold these truths to be self-evident... that We are endowed by Our Creator with certain inalienable rights..."). The Constitution is a limiter on government intrusion into those rights. Thanks for listening,
Dave
I can tell we'd be on opposite sides in a debate over the origins of rights and what the Constitution does and doesn't do, Dave
and I don't think this would be the place for such a ranging debate, anyway.Regardless, I think we're in absolute agreement that polygraphy runs afoul of a number of Constitutional principles. It truly is hard to believe that the Government thinks it a good way to protect those principles.
Regards,
Skeptic
Posted by beech trees
- Aug 23, 2002, 11:06 AMQuote from: mriddle on Aug 23, 2002, 07:50 AM
After spending many hours at your site and reviewing all of the supporting documentation, i find it amazing that this shit, ( For lack of a better word) is used against a People who are empowered and protected by a Constitution.
Unbelievable.
PS: Just a Surfer riding the web
Surfer,
You're correct in your impression that there are more than several applications in which The Travesty Known as Polygraphy is employed that infringes upon or outright tramples upon one's Constitutionally protected rights. A small note about the semantics of your sentence: The Constitution does not empower the People; The People's inalienable rights predate the Constitution and are given to us by God ("We hold these truths to be self-evident... that We are endowed by Our Creator with certain inalienable rights..."). The Constitution is a limiter on government intrusion into those rights. Thanks for listening,
Dave
Posted by mriddle
- Aug 23, 2002, 07:50 AMAfter spending many hours at your site and reviewing all of the supporting documentation, i find it amazing that this shit, ( For lack of a better word) is used against a People who are empowered and protected by a Constitution.
Unbelievable.
PS: Just a Surfer riding the web
Unbelievable.
PS: Just a Surfer riding the web
Posted by peanutbutter
- Aug 20, 2002, 11:20 AMhi I just went through test at a very lg. dept. here is south fl. I agree that after taking the polygraph I don't want to work for them. I answered truthfully but was very nervous and my results came back that I was lying. I was an instant criminal and they kept at me to tell the truth. "They don't want perfection,just truth" It was for corrections. yes, they ask a lot of questions about drugs (use and sale of) and they ask a lot of questions about your sex life
Posted by whtvr25
- Jun 09, 2002, 11:35 AMEmail me and I'll give you all the gory details if you'd like. It was not for an officer but they told me they gave the same test they give for officers. I don't have a problem filling you in b/c I have no intentions of EVER working at a sheriffs office anymore. =)
Posted by 22
- Jun 09, 2002, 01:22 AMMarcia:
Thanks for the info. Can you tell me about how long were you in there for and was this for an officer position? Was this sheriffs dept a large one? THanks all info is appreciated. Email me if you want with the info. thanks
Thanks for the info. Can you tell me about how long were you in there for and was this for an officer position? Was this sheriffs dept a large one? THanks all info is appreciated. Email me if you want with the info. thanks
Posted by marcia
- Jun 08, 2002, 03:59 PMI just had a polygraph at the alachua county sheriffs office...they ask TONS of questions. Some of the stranger ones were if you've ever had group sex or sex for money. Does it make you a bad person if you've had a threesome?? 
Also tons of very specific questions on drug use, how often you drink, and if you have any problems working overtime (weird) let me know if you want to know anymore about it. =)
Also tons of very specific questions on drug use, how often you drink, and if you have any problems working overtime (weird) let me know if you want to know anymore about it. =)
Posted by 22
- May 18, 2002, 02:44 PMDoes anyone haave any info on Florida's Polys for Police and Sheriff's Dept.? Please let me know what types of quest are asked and anything else you may have about them.