Post reply

The message has the following error or errors that must be corrected before continuing:
Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.
Attachments: (Clear attachments)
Restrictions: 4 per post (4 remaining), maximum total size 192 KB, maximum individual size 64.00 MB
Uncheck the attachments you no longer want attached
Click or drag files here to attach them.
(Clear attachments)
Other options
Verification:
Please leave this box empty:
Type the letters shown in the picture
Listen to the letters / Request another image

Type the letters shown in the picture:
Shortcuts: ALT+S post or ALT+P preview

Topic summary

Posted by xenonman
 - Oct 29, 2016, 12:49 PM
Quote from: 4646414D42070 on Oct 14, 2016, 10:06 PM
QuoteAAFJE,

I would not recommending appealing for CIA denial, unless you want to wait an unexpected amount of time. I was denied a security clearance on October 2013, and I appealed. However, it has been 3 years and I have not heard back from the agency. I've been stuck in limbo since then. Long story short, the polygraphers and adjudicators interrogated me 3 times each lasting several hours and made false allegations against me. Now they've permanently damaged my reputation and I probably have 0% chance of every getting any kind of clearance.

I was not denied employment because of my polygraph.  I suspect, but can obviously not prove that I was denied because of my disability.


More likely (at least as I suspect happened in my case) it was a background investigation that went awry.   You should make a PA request to the Agency for their records on you.

There will, of course, be redactions, but you may be able to glean (as was I) the basic reasons for their ending your application process. :-[
Posted by AAFJE
 - Oct 14, 2016, 10:06 PM
QuoteAAFJE,

I would not recommending appealing for CIA denial, unless you want to wait an unexpected amount of time. I was denied a security clearance on October 2013, and I appealed. However, it has been 3 years and I have not heard back from the agency. I've been stuck in limbo since then. Long story short, the polygraphers and adjudicators interrogated me 3 times each lasting several hours and made false allegations against me. Now they've permanently damaged my reputation and I probably have 0% chance of every getting any kind of clearance.

I was not denied employment because of my polygraph.  I suspect, but can obviously not prove that I was denied because of my disability.

Posted by xenonman
 - Oct 04, 2016, 03:53 PM
No, with respect to the CIA, you'd just be wasting your time.
Since the CIA essentially operates as a law unto itself, you might still have a chance at clearance at other agencies. ::)
Posted by ptrckhsu
 - Sep 29, 2016, 10:17 PM
AAFJE,

I would not recommending appealing for CIA denial, unless you want to wait an unexpected amount of time. I was denied a security clearance on October 2013, and I appealed. However, it has been 3 years and I have not heard back from the agency. I've been stuck in limbo since then. Long story short, the polygraphers and adjudicators interrogated me 3 times each lasting several hours and made false allegations against me. Now they've permanently damaged my reputation and I probably have 0% chance of every getting any kind of clearance.
Posted by xenonman
 - Sep 25, 2016, 12:58 AM
Quotereported to the other agency the words: "the polygraph yielded no confessions but the CIA felt strongly not to hire the applicant".

I'd love to know just what was meant by that typical Agency-speak  nonsense! ;D
Posted by xenonman
 - Sep 25, 2016, 12:48 AM
QuoteMy FOIA file did not include my MMPI, visit with the shrink, or the "Blue Book Assessment" (did you take that too?) results.  Now I wonder...when you submit a FOIA, you are to specifically request what information you want.  Did I forget to request my psych files?  I don't remember.  But I am willing to bet the CIA wouldn't give them to me even if I requested them, those files may be protected by FOIA as well, but I don't know.

You might also try making a request under the Privacy Act (PA).  That will be particularly useful for reviewing most of the paperwork associated with the Agency  application process, including the BI.  Polygraph results are never released by the CIA, but they are by the NSA.

That's  interesting about the MMPI.  I don't think that the CIA used that instrument when I was applying there, although the NSA did. :-?
Posted by xenonman
 - Sep 25, 2016, 12:47 AM
QuoteCheck out this blog and news article about a CIA female NCS trainee who got booted, went nuts, and shared her story and all her CIA files a few years ago.
http://ciacorrupt.blogspot.com/
http://www.thedailybeast.com/videos/2012/03/29/lynnea-williams-spy-who-tweets.ht...

Yes, I found the case of Lynnae Williams fascinating.  Very similar to my experience, except that I was never allowed to complete the vile entry process. :-X
Posted by xenonman
 - Sep 25, 2016, 12:44 AM
QuoteMy FOIA file did not include my MMPI, visit with the shrink, or the "Blue Book Assessment" (did you take that too?) results.  Now I wonder...when you submit a FOIA, you are to specifically request what information you want.  Did I forget to request my psych files?  I don't remember.  But I am willing to bet the CIA wouldn't give them to me even if I requested them, those files may be protected by FOIA as well, but I don't know.

You might also try making a request under the Privacy Act (PA).  That will be particularly useful for reviewing most of the paperwork associated with the Agency  application process, including the BI.  Polygraph results are never released by the CIA, but they are by the NSA.

That's  interesting about the MMPI.  I don't think that the CIA used that instrument when I was applying there, although the NSA did. :-?
Posted by cia reject
 - Sep 24, 2016, 07:13 PM
Sorry for your loss.  I can't even imagine what you must have went through.  My deepest condolences.  I'm surprised because the CIA usually hires disabled people and would only reject you if your disability makes you unable to do your job. 

My FOIA file did not include my MMPI, visit with the shrink, or the "Blue Book Assessment" (did you take that too?) results.  Now I wonder...when you submit a FOIA, you are to specifically request what information you want.  Did I forget to request my psych files?  I don't remember.  But I am willing to bet the CIA wouldn't give them to me even if I requested them, those files may be protected by FOIA as well, but I don't know.

Check out this blog and news article about a CIA female NCS trainee who got booted, went nuts, and shared her story and all her CIA files a few years ago.
http://ciacorrupt.blogspot.com/
http://www.thedailybeast.com/videos/2012/03/29/lynnea-williams-spy-who-tweets.html

I got a contractor job a few years after my CIA rejection and got my TS clearance.  I told the investigators that the CIA was full of shit, the polygraph is garbage, and my record was spotless.  I have not reapplied to CIA, I have moved on.

Which position did you apply for or were being recruited for?  Were you rejected for suitability or denied a clearance?
Posted by AAFJE
 - Sep 24, 2016, 06:44 PM
QuoteI will answer your questions after you answer mines.

What happened at your 3-day?
Why exactly do you think you were rejected? 
What is your disability?


The standard, psych eval, physical, polygraph.
I admitted to seeking help for depression.
Loss of one or more body parts vital for human function.  I'm trying to be vague for obvious reasons.  Anyone who has experience such a loss is likely to experience depression.  I did, sought treatment but I think they dinged me for seeking treatment.


Posted by cia reject
 - Sep 24, 2016, 06:27 PM
I will answer your questions after you answer mines.

What happened at your 3-day?
Why exactly do you think you were rejected? 
What is your disability?
Posted by AAFJE
 - Sep 24, 2016, 05:56 PM
I would only be guessing as to why they rejected me, hence my FOIA request questions. 
Did the agency include any of the results of your MMPI or psych eval in your FOIA request?
After you were rejected by the CIA, were you successful at obtaining a position at any other IC agencies?
Have you reapplied to the CIA?

Thanks again for all your responses!
Posted by cia reject
 - Sep 24, 2016, 02:07 PM
Quote from: 4141464A45000 on Sep 24, 2016, 10:56 AMcia reject, thank you so much for the reply.  I made it through the process up to the BI.  As far as I know they did not start the BI.

Are you confident that the CIA shares non-poly info including health information with other agencies?
I have a disability, and I am sure that is why I got the ax.  Of course they won't tell me that, but I would like to know. 
If you or anyone else reading this post can verify what information is provided by the agency in a FOIA request I would appreciate it!

Thanks everyone.

I don't know if they provide health information to other agencies.  When I did my FOIA after my CIA rejection, all that came back is a copy of the SF-86 pages that I hand-wrote and turned in, a redacted polygraph report that just had my name and occupation, a letter saying I was rejected with some other stuff on it, and that was it.  Since they never started my BI, so there was nothing else to give me.  I have done FOIA with other agencies that ran my BI and received the full detailed report including my credit report and what people said about me when they were interviewed.  When you have your full BI report, you can read it and you will know why you were rejected.  With just redacted polygraph report, it is hard to tell why you were rejected, but you should have a clue based on how your 3-day went at Dulles Discovery.  Something bad had to have happened during that 3-day that you remember that would cause you to get the ax.

Yes, I am 100% confident the CIA share info with other agencies.  Part of the security clearance process is the NACLAC (Google it).  The National Agency Check part is just that, a check of your record with other national agencies.  When I was recruited later by another agency, the CIA shared my polygraph info with them.  I don't know if the new agency saw my whole recorded polygraph video session, but I never made any confessions and the CIA reported to the other agency the words: "the polygraph yielded no confessions but the CIA felt strongly not to hire the applicant". 

Why exactly do you think you were rejected?  What is your disability?  The CIA hires disabled people all the time.  In fact, they are on this liberal push to hire as many disableds, homos, Muslims, and other types of people that would not have had a chance in Hell in the conservative CIA of the 1990s.

Posted by AAFJE
 - Sep 24, 2016, 10:56 AM
cia reject, thank you so much for the reply.  I made it through the process up to the BI.  As far as I know they did not start the BI.

Are you confident that the CIA shares non-poly info including health information with other agencies?
I have a disability, and I am sure that is why I got the ax.  Of course they won't tell me that, but I would like to know. 
If you or anyone else reading this post can verify what information is provided by the agency in a FOIA request I would appreciate it!

Thanks everyone.
Posted by cia reject
 - Sep 23, 2016, 12:11 PM
Quote from: 68686F636C290 on Sep 23, 2016, 09:09 AMHello all!  I received the dreaded "thanks but no thanks" letter from the agency.  I made it though the process including the "3 day visit" at Dulles.
I can only guess that I said or did something wrong during the psych evaluation, or perhaps the medical portion.  Of course they won't tell me why they rejected me, only that I can re-apply in one year.
If I submit a FOIA to the CIA, is it possible that I may find out the reason why they rejected me?
Has anyone here successfully applied again after the one year wait period?
Does the CIA share their non polygraph information with other federal entities?

Thanks folks!


Yes, a FOIA request will help you figure out why you were rejected if they started your background investigation. If not, all you will get is a redacted polygraph report, which is basically a blank sheet of paper.  Polygraphs reports are protected and you can't get a copy with FOIA.

Yes, CIA shares poly and non-poly info with other agencies. I am speaking from experience. It is part of your security clearance process to check the dirt that other agencies dug up on you.